Frisk (Undertale) Discussion: The Pacifist or The Genocidal

Level 7 CPU 1169 RoyMaster4

I'm not sure if the 'too early' argument really applies anymore. It's been out for 5 months and is still very popular, and the Nintendo relevence is actually on its way. Shovel Knight is probably the top indie rep (considering it has an amiibo, a recent significant update in Plague of Shadows, and more updates coming in the future), but Undertale isn't necessarily a bad choice.

Regardless, let's talk about the most important thing: How would Frisk play? The most popular run in the game is pacifist, which is why I had suggested that type of moveset to make her unique. But if we were combining both kinds of playstyles, I don't know how it could be made too unique.

... so, maybe just a stage + assist trophy is plenty. Frisk herself isn't really a significant character and is kind of weird to make a moveset for.

1379

Roy wrote:: I'm not sure if the 'too early' argument really applies anymore. It's been out for 5 months and is still very popular, and the Nintendo relevence is actually on its way. Shovel Knight is probably the top indie rep (considering it has an amiibo, a recent significant update in Plague of Shadows, and more updates coming in the future), but Undertale isn't necessarily a bad choice.

Regardless, let's talk about the most important thing: How would Frisk play? The most popular run in the game is pacifist, which is why I had suggested that type of moveset to make her unique. But if we were combining both kinds of playstyles, I don't know how it could be made too unique.

... so, maybe just a stage + assist trophy is plenty. Frisk herself isn't really a significant character and is kind of weird to make a moveset for.

No, it does. Fads can last a long time.

The Nintendo relevance is not on it's way. The Guacamelee porters only expressed interest in doing it, not confirmed it.

And....it's them, not her

2812 Dustination

It's "him"

1379

Dustination wrote:: It's "him"

Classic Dust

Level 7 CPU 1169 RoyMaster4

Lego Shaq wrote:: No, it does. Fads can last a long time.

The Nintendo relevance is not on it's way. The Guacamelee porters only expressed interest in doing it, not confirmed it.

That's true, Pokemon is still going strong after all these years. Who said anything about Guacamelee porters? The lead developer of Undertale wants to port it to Wii U. Those porters are only one group of people who could potentially do it.

You also missed the bigger picture. You're so focused on the fact that it's a new fad game that you're ignoring the character itself and how it can play. That's what this topic should be about.

1379

Roy wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:: No, it does. Fads can last a long time.

The Nintendo relevance is not on it's way. The Guacamelee porters only expressed interest in doing it, not confirmed it.

That's true, Pokemon is still going strong after all these years. Who said anything about Guacamelee porters? The lead developer of Undertale wants to port it to Wii U. Those porters are only one group of people who could potentially do it.

You also missed the bigger picture. You're so focused on the fact that it's a new fad game that you're ignoring the character itself and how it can play. That's what this topic should be about.

The character itself has been talked about NUMEROUS times. And I personally don't like them, in a Smash scenario. The drawing point of the game is pacifism. I understand there's a No Mercy route, doesn't mean that should be what we represent. And the moveset isn't really that stupendous either.

I've had the bigger picture numerous times and talked about it numerous times.

Also, the Guacamelee porters are the only ones who have expressed interest in doing it.

Level 7 CPU 1169 RoyMaster4

Alright, let's stick to the character itself then.

I agree - If Frisk were to get into the game, she should be represented by the pacifist side more than the genocidal. It's just kind of awkward to make a pacifist moveset... I did try once but no one really responded much to it.

In any case, the moveset in the OP is not what I would want to see.

Level 3 CPU 55 AkumaTh

Roy wrote:: I agree - If Frisk were to get into the game, she should be represented by the pacifist side more than the genocidal. It's just kind of awkward to make a pacifist moveset... I did try once but no one really responded much to it.

Same here. I figured that even if you are going for a Pacifist Ending, you do have to fight regardless and made his moves based on the stuff he has done in the game. I figure he would be the weakest player with just two specific attacks that do the most damage.

Level 7 CPU 1231 N/A

onestly, no one will ever make a good "Mercy" moveset for Frisk because Smash isn't the type of game for that. Even Phenoix is not defence-y.

Level 7 CPU 1169 RoyMaster4

There were only 2 times you ever had to 'fight' - the first time he was reluctant to fight you as well (and thus the damage you dealt increased over time), and the other battle is only possible due to defenses dropping to 0 (and becomes irrelevent anyways). Frisk just doesn't hit very hard. In fact, both of these are only in the neutral ending - so as a 'true pacifist', you never have to fight (unless you count the fake hit vs Undyne).

Hm... just a thought - what if Frisk's 'mercy' attacks weakened her opponents? Like, made their attacks hit less hard. The main point of pacifism was to instead befriend everyone who wanted to kill you.

Don't know how to translate this into a kill move without using a 'press spare to finish a stock' sort of thing...

Level 3 CPU 55 AkumaTh

Roy wrote:: There were only 2 times you ever had to 'fight' - the first time he was reluctant to fight you as well (and thus the damage you dealt increased over time), and the other battle is only possible due to defenses dropping to 0 (and becomes irrelevent anyways).

There is a third time as well. And it is unavoidable. Mettaton. When his heart is exposed, you have to shoot it with a Yellow Soul. So Frisk is capable of fighting even during a Pacifist run. It just that he chooses not to.

1763 Ariand54321

AkumaTh wrote:

Roy wrote:: There were only 2 times you ever had to 'fight' - the first time he was reluctant to fight you as well (and thus the damage you dealt increased over time), and the other battle is only possible due to defenses dropping to 0 (and becomes irrelevent anyways).

There is a third time as well. And it is unavoidable. Mettaton. When his heart is exposed, you have to shoot it with a Yellow Soul. So Frisk is capable of fighting even during a Pacifist run. It just that he chooses not to.

Shooting him only adds ratings and is completely optional. He actually falls apart all on his own.

Level 3 CPU 55 AkumaTh

AEM wrote:: Shooting him only adds ratings and is completely optional. He actually falls apart all on his own.

Do you have video proof? Because every Pacifist Fight I've seen has him shooting. And despite shooting, still Pacifist. It suggests that it is the most canon thing to happen because you can shoot the heart and still be considered a Pacifist.

1379

AkumaTh wrote:

AEM wrote:: Shooting him only adds ratings and is completely optional. He actually falls apart all on his own.

Do you have video proof? Because every Pacifist Fight I've seen has him shooting. And despite shooting, still Pacifist. It suggests that it is the most canon thing to happen because you can shoot the heart and still be considered a Pacifist.

It doesn't even matter because even if you have to attack twice in the route, that's still not representative of the main draw. Your only logic is that "they can fight but they don't". And people know them for not fighting which is the way that we should go, and if we go that way theres not much good choices for a moveset

Level 3 CPU 55 AkumaTh

Lego Shaq wrote:: It doesn't even matter because even if you have to attack twice in the route, that's still not representative of the main draw. Your only logic is that "they can fight but they don't". And people know them for not fighting which is the way that we should go, and if we go that way theres not much good choices for a moveset

So why try to make it Pure Pacifist Frisk and not just Undertale's Frisk? Make a move list that highlight the things you can do in Undertale? Represent the game through Frisk. Like Ness having Paula's PK Moves.

But I like a challenge and I am going to try to make a Pure Pacifist Movelist.

dddd:

Level 4 CPU 175 EnderSean311

Good attempt at the moveset, but it still fails to capture Frisk's character. Every attack would have to do like 0%. Although... That could make for an interesting mechanic. Ah, who am I kidding. Frisk just isn't right for smash no matter how long this thread is debated over.

Level 6 CPU 875 DestinyIntwined

Help, this thread is shooting straight into the toilet!

Level 7 CPU 1169 RoyMaster4

The thing is, we need a central gimmick to make this work. Without that, the character will never feel right. Though that might seem a bit forced...

Assuming we use Akuma's moveset... What if instead of doing damage, Frisk instead built up a meter (knockback and such are still there, though). Once you're at full meter, any attack would be an instant kill as long as Frisk has 'Determination' (ala danger zones in Great Cave Offensive).

Gameplay-wise, this would be an interesting dance of sorts, forcing Frisk to be aggressive when the time is right, but her opponent also knowing that as well. So the opponent can either counter by being aggressive in return so Frisk can't attack, or running away until Determination runs out (and then attack during cooldown).

Level 3 CPU 55 AkumaTh

Sean_McMuffin wrote:: Good attempt at the moveset, but it still fails to capture Frisk's character.

Frisk doesn't really have a character. Like Villager or Red, Frisk is more of a representative of the player. Thus the move list of Villager being things he does in the game (and Balloon Fighter). Or using Crusade as an example, Duck Hunt Dog who has moves that reminds you of the games he plays but doesn't really show off his character (because all he had was a laugh).

And like Phoenix Wright, who is just as Pacifist as Frisk, they're not really attacking the opponent. It just so happens these actions inflict damage.

3856 cellularSP

My idea for a 'gimmick' when I tried making a Frisk moveset a while ago was to represent the element of choice in Undertale.

Basically, moves would be under "pacifist", "neutral", or "malevolent" in categorization, and each action would fill up a "meter" (visible or invisible), with pacifist actions draining the meter, malevolent actions filling the meter, and neutral actions moving the meter towards the middle, no matter where the meter is filled.

If in the middle, Frisk is on a "neutral run", where (s)he has no real strengths but no weaknesses either stat-wise. If the meter is filled, Frisk will enter a "genocide run", where Frisk gets bonus attack damage and speed, but defense is lowered; some attacks could also be replaced with a knife. Frisk would stay like this until neutral/pacifist actions reduce the meter back down to the middle, where Frisk will enter a neutral state again.
If the meter is depleted, Frisk will enter a "pacifist run". Here, Frisk plays more defensively, increasing Frisk's weight and reducing damage taken. In return, certain moves are changed (some deal no damage at all now), and Frisk's damage is reduced drastically; however, Frisk's knockback coincidentally increases as well, encouraging a keep-away playstyle. Frisk would stay like this until (s)he enters back into a neutral state with neutral or genocidal actions.

You could even go further with this idea, but this is just the basic idea I had.

Level 7 CPU 1244

Actually, this is interesting and never seen before.
If Undertale still retains its popularity even when the fad is over, then I could see Frisk as a playable with this moveset gimmick.
But not before indie characters with more importance to videogame history get in.

Level 7 CPU 1231 N/A

I agree with Sean, Frisk just isn't cut out for Smash. And no, this isn't just my blind hate of UT. "They" would have the most craziest of gimmicks just to feel like the game. And at that point it'll be just crazy

Level 6 CPU 875 DestinyIntwined

And yet, this thread is still going

3856 cellularSP

DestinyIntwined wrote:: And yet, this thread is still going

Great observation Johnny!

Level 5 CPU 362 thebuddyadrian

DestinyIntwined wrote:: Punch Punch Kick

You should put "chop kick block"

Level 5 CPU 423 slothfulunchmeat

I support Frisk, but I feel like it would be best to have some sort of Mercy gimmick. Maybe some of their moves increase a hidden "Spare" meter, and when it gets high enough they can use one of their specials to get a point without actually KOing the opponent normally?

Level 6 CPU 689

Kzinssie wrote:: I support Frisk, but I feel like it would be best to have some sort of Mercy gimmick. Maybe some of their moves increase a hidden "Spare" meter, and when it gets high enough they can use one of their specials to get a point without actually KOing the opponent normally?

How would it work in Stock matches, though?

Level 7 CPU 1244

Maybe the opponent that gets "hit" by the special loses a stock without actually getting KOed.
Just a guess, though.

Level 5 CPU 423 slothfulunchmeat

Yeah, pretty much. You do a KO without actually launching the opponent offscreen or resetting their damage and position, essentially.

Level 6 CPU 689

Kzinssie wrote:: Yeah, pretty much. You do a KO without actually launching the opponent offscreen or resetting their damage and position, essentially.

Sounds kinda OP to me. If you rack up enough damage against an opponent and have a full "Spare meter", you almost have two KO's in your pocket.

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