New 0.9 bugs, fresh!~

PH TAKE-OVER

Known Bugs

- Mega Man neutral B auto fires until you jump out of it
- Rush sticks around
- Mega Man has no get up attack animation
- Mega Man becomes invisible when throwing an item
- It's possible to DI out of some Final Smashes so that the knockback hit misses... So far I've seen this happen with Ness's, Mewtwo's, and Saki's
- Wario infinite side B recovery
- Ice Climbers not playable online
- Mega Man's Rush Jet disappeared when I ran into Ganondorf with it while he was in the air. Not sure if this happens with other characters, I haven't tested it yet.
- Wright's on-ground HOLD IT doesn't work on Link. Just Link. Dunno why.

DHD's side special tends to only work when it wants to. If you perform the Neutral Special first, it unlocks the side special for a little while.

The most glaring issues will be taken care of as soon as possible and fixes will be available. Thanks for attention and hope you enjoy SSBC0.9.0.

If you pick peach and hit someone with her side special, then continue to put in that command over and over as the hearts appear, she'll continue to act as though she's hit someone. Hearts keep appearing, the 'VWOING' sound will keep playing and she'll just keep going upward until she hits the stage boundaries and dies, you stop putting in that command, or someone attacks her.

Trying to play with six players slows down the framerate, especially on Q*Bert.

(Keep in mind, I'm using the keyboard as the controller)

Trying to do a forward smash without the c-stick needs precision. (which is does not happen with the up-smash and down-smash) Otherwise the character will immediately stop instead of doing the forward-smash.

DHD is only allowed one side b projectile in existence at a time. You're using it too quickly.

MegaMan's final smash is intended to be like that.

Yoshi's final smash won't shoot out fireballs, the temple stage doesn't have a preview screenshot on stage selection & excitebike stage just has a black background with the stage floor having no colors as well (except for the one platform on the top right)

I don't know if it's a glitch or not, (please oh please be a glitch) but L-canceling seems to have been removed entirely.

HypeConduit wrote:

I don't know if it's a glitch or not, (please oh please be a glitch) but L-canceling seems to have been removed entirely.

L-Canceling was removed.

During their Final Smashes, Fox and Game and Watch (and seemingly any character with similar final smashes) get stuck on the bottom blastlines should they fall off the stage, and they remain stuck until their final smashes run out and they die.

I've seen both Snake and ROB kill themselves by reaching the top blastline with their up specials after they were launched at high percentages. Not sure if this applies to anyy character who has excellent vertical recovery.

The blocks on Tetris can cause players to fall though the stage.

When a character dies while metal, they remain metal after respawning.

It's possible to fall through the lava on Bowser's Castle and die. Also, you can get stuck on the walls as you're getting burned by the lava, resulting in a LOT of damage.

During a match on Mushroom Kingdom, Tails dodge-rolled towards the pipe on the far right and suddenly disappeared, forcing me to quit the match.

On Cutman's Arena with Hazards off, I was able to stand on the spikes without getting damaged, but the CPU still got hurt by the spikes. This was a 1v1 match, btw.

In terms of AI issues, the AI is very suicidal on both Casino Night Zone and Distortion World.

This is probably less of a bug and more of a PC issue, but can someone please tell me why the pallete is so horribly broken?
If this just my PC's fault, then I hope it's fixable...
but hey at least I get to use lime green Wright

Dustination wrote:

HypeConduit wrote:

I don't know if it's a glitch or not, (please oh please be a glitch) but L-canceling seems to have been removed entirely.

L-Canceling was removed.

I mean I understand that it was really lenient with your input in the older version, but now It's not even there? I thought it was a really cool feature. Made the game really fast and fun playing vs. with other people who knew how to use it. I understand the new shield mechanics, mostly because the last one was spammable, but I don't know how much I agree with it's removal. I personally think it should be selectable to turn on and off, kind of like the air-dodging.

Speaking of air-dodging, "Crusade" setting is insane! Interesting addition there, kinda like Melee's on steroids. (Not a complaint, just worth mentioning. )

Chaotic Chao wrote:

This is probably less of a bug and more of a PC issue, but can someone please tell me why the pallete is so horribly broken?
If this just my PC's fault, then I hope it's fixable...
but hey at least I get to use lime green Wright

It may be your PC. If you reboot the game it might go away.

HypeConduit wrote:

Dustination wrote:

HypeConduit wrote:

I don't know if it's a glitch or not, (please oh please be a glitch) but L-canceling seems to have been removed entirely.

L-Canceling was removed.

I mean I understand that it was really lenient with your input in the older version, but now It's not even there? I thought it was a really cool feature. Made the game really fast and fun playing vs. with other people who knew how to use it. I understand the new shield mechanics, mostly because the last one was spammable, but I don't know how much I agree with it's removal. I personally think it should be selectable to turn on and off, kind of like the air-dodging.

Speaking of air-dodging, "Crusade" setting is insane! Interesting addition there, kinda like Melee's on steroids. (Not a complaint, just worth mentioning.   )

I personally don't like Crusade air dodge (but I'll leave it on since I'm too lazy to change it). It is WAAAAY too safe of an option.

C_Mill24 wrote:

Chaotic Chao wrote:

This is probably less of a bug and more of a PC issue, but can someone please tell me why the pallete is so horribly broken?
If this just my PC's fault, then I hope it's fixable...
but hey at least I get to use lime green Wright

It may be your PC. If you reboot the game it might go away.

Bleh, I tried this twice and even rebooted my PC...nothing doing.

On l-cancelling:
Yes it's gone, but in it's stead land lag is as low as of you were perfect at l-cancelling by melee/pm standards. Fox's Nair will always have 7 frame land lag, not just when you timed an extra pointless button input.

On Crusade air dodge:
It's inspired by Air Dash online. It has NO INVINCIBILITY. None at all. It is a mobility tool purely. Lots of fun, but safe is the last thing i would call it.

Perfect Hell wrote:

On l-cancelling:
Yes it's gone, but in it's stead land lag is as low as of you were perfect at l-cancelling by melee/pm standards.  Fox's Nair will always have 7 frame land lag, not just when you timed an extra pointless button input.

On Crusade air dodge:
It's inspired by Air Dash online.  It has NO INVINCIBILITY.  None at all.  It is a mobility tool purely.  Lots of fun, but safe is the last thing i would call it.

You must be high because C. Falcon is downright unplayable, its laggy as hell and barely has any safe linkers.

Also, Sonic Dtilt is broken, it has no lag and it gives momentum, you can die at the side spaming Dilt.

Sonic' SH is like 17 pixels high, you cant do SH>Fair, its beyond stupid.

There is a lot of momentum glitches, some characters run speed is retarded and the boost of speed of the dash in the middle of it is absurd, you can go from one extreme to the other of the stage with a single Dash->Full hop with sonic, same applies to a bunnch of other characters.

Some characters dont match their ground to their air speed,making them clunky.

Actually falcon's frame data is identical to melee

I think we already know that Melee frame data has never been accurate to Crusade, since 0.8  at least, his frame data may be identical but momentum is not even similar in the 2 games, making Falcon downright bad.

EDIT: HOLY GOD Fox shine is still bugged, i fixed it BEFORE i quit the team, for god sake

Falco is in the unplayable category, way too laggy aerials.

0.8.4 is a bad comparison, the frame data wasnt actually correct then it was slower. I think it translates well, and so do several Melee falcon mains including a well known one who's been a Melee falcon for a very long time. Falcon is not bad in this demo, not by my standards nor Dry's nor were there complaints from the balancing team.

Perfect Hell wrote:

0.8.4 is a bad comparison, the frame data wasnt actually correct then it was slower.  I think it translates well, and so do several Melee falcon mains including a well known one who's been a Melee falcon for a very long time.  Falcon is not bad in this demo, not by my standards nor Dry's nor were there complaints from the balancing team.

I just dont know what concept of good you have, but Falcon is utter crap compared to, a lucas or sonic.

ridley KO at the end of their own final smash

CJ wrote:

ridley KO at the end of their own final smash

It might be your PC; I haven't had that happened on my end.

sluigi123 wrote:

CJ wrote:

ridley KO at the end of their own final smash

It might be your PC; I haven't had that happened on my end.

It has happened to me in the temple while playing against klonoa

I was making all the characters I worked on fight each other, and Pac-Man's Final Smash doesn't seem to work at least as a Level 10 CPU.

What he does is dash off continuously to one side without turning, then when he finally reverts he is instantly KO'ed.

NyxTheShield wrote:

I just dont know what concept of good you have, but Falcon is utter crap compared to, a lucas or sonic.

I don't know if you're nitpicking, being an arse, or what(you're complaining and whining way too much for me to take you seriously), but Captain Falcon plays FINE. He has disadvantages here and there, but you say he flat-out sucks like there's legitimately no way to play with him. Which is far from the case.

Perfect Hell wrote:

Yes it's gone, but in it's stead land lag is as low as of you were perfect at l-cancelling by melee/pm standards. Fox's Nair will always have 7 frame land lag, not just when you timed an extra pointless button input.

So if I'm reading this correctly, SHFFL would still be possible (without the L, anyway), i.e. Smash Flash 2?

One thing that should be mentioned is that the removal of l-cancelling came very late and very unexpectedly in development, and PH is the only coder-balancer who's extensively tested and balanced the non l-cancel metagame.

It is somewhat worrying to hear that Falcon's land lags are identical to Melee l-cancel. PH, the game's mobility is very different from Melee's, and hitstun is significantly different, for example in that it scales with damage to a much greater extent in Melee.

Fleep, I think it would be most helpful if you drew up a proper back room style analysis of what you think is wrong. Talk about the combos that work, the combos that don't work. Talk about kill percentages, talk about his spacing.

Those who are proficient with the competitive side of the game should definitely give good, detailed explanations of any oversights we've made. We had a close shave with a badly coded Luigi shortly before release, so we're not impeccable and we will have made balancing mistakes.

@Tempura: That mostly depends on your computer. Six players is a lot to handle, and if you've got a ton of projectiles on-screen then it gets worse. We do make an effort on optimisation, but at the end of the day it'll take quite a bit of computer power to get the most chaotic matches running at full speed.

@Fleep: A lot of characters can't short hop their aerials. Crusade has always had a much faster short hop than Melee, and that just helps make the game faster. Why are you even trying to SH fair? It has too much startup to even be considered for spacing. Most slow aerials on fast SH characters can't come out. So Snake can't do fair, Weegee can't do bair, DK can't do fair or dair, etc.

Also, the engine has been edited a lot, and that's probably why things are a bit clunkier. It's interesting you mentioned Fox's Shine, because I remember at one point after an engine change, Shine sent opponents halfway across FD. We fixed that, obviously, but we don't always notice when engine changes have bad side-effects. That's probably what happened to Fox's Shine. PH has done a huge amount of work on Fox, but he's also intercut that with lots of engine changes, and the two may have just intertwined badly.

It's strange that you don't have the same complaints about Lucas or Sonic, though. According to PH every character has very similar land lag data for their mobility class, and Lucas, Sonic, Falco and Falcon all fall under the same.

@PH: I haven't actually had a chance to look at Falcon yet. I haven't played as him since your big revamp after APEX last year. So I have no idea lol.

AI problem: Pac-Man and Weegee CPUs never aim their recovery.

when yoshi uses his final smash he cant spit fireball