New 0.9 bugs, fresh!~

Infinite bike jumping was already fixed though, i dont see how regular bike jumping is a glitch.

Perfect Hell wrote:

Infinite bike jumping was already fixed though, i dont see how regular bike jumping is a glitch.

The key part is "instead of dropping the bike". The bike doesn't come back after Wario drops it off the stage. If you do Side B after that and jump off the bike, it just disappears.

the hitsparks start growing if the game is paused

Mega Man's Back Aerial has no visual effect on hit.

I might have already reported this, but you can also shield Marth's Final Smash.

ChompChain wrote:

PH TAKE-OVER

Known Bugs- Wright's on-ground HOLD IT doesn't work on Link. Just Link. Dunno why.

Could this be due to Link's shield (his Hylian shield, not the one you activate with a button ) blocks the attack since it's a projectile?

Yes, it's due to link's shield. It's been fixed, actually i thought that was already in the last patch.

Perfect Hell wrote:

Yes, it's due to link's shield.  It's been fixed, actually i thought that was already in the last patch.

Yeah, tried it out and I didn't see that issue.

In other news, CPU-controlled Lucas and Ness always seem to try to recover to the right.


Also, when charging Rayman's Down B, Rayman keeps moving even when you let go of Left/Right, but he plays his standing animation.

- If you use Fox's Side B on the middle platforms of Battle Field, Fox will teleport to the ground, dunno if it happens with Falco.

Example:

- Mario's Cape does flip enemies, but it does not mirror the oponents momentum, so you can't flip Fire Fox or PK Thunder momentum, even though you can change where they are facing

- Ness uses PK Thunder to recover incorrectly, dunno if it happens with Lucas as well.

I'm 100% certain i fixed mario's cape. Will test now, maybe it's just not in the public version yet.

Johnny64 wrote:

- If you use Fox's Side B on the middle platforms of Battle Field, Fox will teleport to the ground, dunno if it happens with Falco.

Example:

- Mario's Cape does flip enemies, but it does not mirror the oponents momentum, so you can't flip Fire Fox or PK Thunder momentum, even though you can change where they are facing

- Ness uses PK Thunder to recover incorrectly, dunno if it happens with Lucas as well.

Yes, it applies to both, and some other characters, like Shadow and DHD also seem to always go to the right. I think this is more of an issue with CPU players in general and not these specific characters.

No, it's character specific. One character had a wrong coding that was actually being corrected by the AI engine on it's own, but then the way the engine handles recovery changed and that older oversight in the character started to play out. Problem is the coding of a bunch of other recoveries got based on it, so the flaw made it's way out to other characters. Definitely not all characters though, just a handful. So report any you find please.

Waluigi's Normal Attacks don't have any whiff sound effects, with the exception of his Grab and Forward Smash.

Mac's Forward Throw doesn't work on Meta Knight and Gooey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3rjcJ8vnag

Also, there's a slight animation glitch with his Up B. When the animation finishes, it plays the first frame or so again just before he enters helpless.

Edit: Lucario's Forward Smash plays no sound effect on hit.

Everyone can hit ROB out of his invincibility when he respawns.

Want to see a CPU lose to projectile spam? Just pick Mega Man versus the CPU Mega Man. The CPU Mega Man spends too much time short-hopping to block anything, so just spam Down Tilt.

I figured this out while trying to test Mega Man's Down Tilt. When shielding the initial hit of his down tilt, it's possible to get stuck perpetually in shield.

Chun-Li's pummel doesn't play a sound effect on hit.

Not sure if this is a glitch or not, but it's possible to tech Ryu's Forward Throw, making the Shakunetsu Hadoken he throws avoidable.

Meta Knight's Mach Tornado and Drill Rush recover almost instantly when used near the ground, making them extremely safe (or unpunishable, period, in the case of Drill Rush).

Their weaknesses are in their durations. The idea is that if you don't get hit by them, you beat them while they are still moving. They're also horribly unsafe on shield, so that even very short ranged characters can beat them.

Dry wrote:

Their weaknesses are in their durations. The idea is that if you don't get hit by them, you beat them while they are still moving. They're also horribly unsafe on shield, so that even very short ranged characters can beat them.

I realize the intent was for them to be horribly unsafe on shield, but try angling Drill Rush towards the ground in 0.9, then immediately start mashing Down B. You'll see that the down B comes out literally as soon as the last sound effect for Drill Rush played. I wouldn't have posted this here if I thought this was a design choice. Making Mach Tornado and Drill Rush recover near-instantly when used on the ground makes some matchups extremely difficult because the Meta Knight can just throw out those moves without fear of punishment. Mind you, both have nicely disjointed hitboxes and offer mobility as well. I think the balancing team would not have intentionally made already highly useful moves also extremely quick to cool down.

I don't want to have an appeal to authority, but I know how these moves used to work. There was a reason for them having some recovery (if you want to know why, it's due to the excellent hitboxes, movement abilities, damage, and recovery utility of the moves). I am all for them being slightly safer, but not to the point where you can do Drill Rush, have it blocked, and just go in for a grab afterwards because your foe is still in shield stun. That's why I suspect there's a bug.

Like I said, go try it. Just angle Drill Rush downwards and immediately try to do a move as soon as he stops moving. Same thing applies to Mach Tornado. Just do the short version and stay low to the ground.

Haha don't worry about appealing to authority. You kinda have a right to do that.

Still, I know exactly what you're talking about, and I know why it happens. When Meta Knight's specials end on the ground, he goes into a jump state, rather than a helpless state. That's why you can launch any aerial, or use down B, or SL, or anything.

The reason why I'm confused as to why you find these moves too safe is the nature of the moves. Mach Tornado, for example, has 0 frames of shieldstun on its last hitbox. So even with the very low endlag on a grounded Mach Tornado, anyone can still shield grab it with ease. Now where there might be a problem is if Mach Tornado doesn't just have very low end lag, it has no end lag at all. You gave an example of Drill Rush, but it's different, because Drill Rush does have no end lag at all (more on that later). If there's a bug that causes Mach Tornado to have no end lag after the last hitbox disappears, then you're right, there's a bug with that move. I suspect however that the few frames of end lag it does have, could be misidentified as zero end lag. I don't have the time to open up the game myself, but I could look at the current coding and see if something's wrong.

To receive zero end lag on Drill Rush, you have to finish on the ground. Drill Rush cannot be stopped, i.e. MK is always moving forward during it. Drill Rush does quite low shield knockback. If you think about it, the combination of these three means that it's actually very unlikely for the last hitbox to hit a shield; your opponent has to be standing exactly where the move will end. If your shield is hit by any of the other hitboxes, MK will have flown past you by the time the move ends. The only thing Meta Knight can do while using Drill Rush across the ground is move up, but that just makes him helpless. So basically, the scenario almost never happens. In fact, the last hit of Drill Rush also has disproportionately high knockback for MK, but because of DI, this is also impossible to hit with realistically.

OK, so I'm not talking specifically about the last hitbox being shielded, let alone the move being shielded in the first place.

I couldn't reproduce the issue with Mach Tornado (though the CPU players seem to do it quite a bit). However, I have uploaded a video that shows both Drill Rush and Dimensional Cape recovering MUCH faster when used towards the ground. (Watch in HD for 60fps, not that it matters too much.)

Dimensional cape recovers quickly on the ground by design.
Idk about shuttle loop but Dry can talk about that.

Perfect Hell wrote:

Dimensional cape recovers quickly on the ground by design.
Idk about shuttle loop but Dry can talk about that.

You mean Drill Rush?

I played around with Dimensional Cape a bit. Zoning characters are a joke if you just air-to-ground Dimensional Cape around their projectiles. It's completely safe since it appears to have very few if any frames upon landing. Good to know this isn't a bug, but I'm still not convinced on Drill Rush. Make for extremely safe approaches and recoveries, and I personally feel it looks unnatural when it recovers that fast.

Dry, you asked about scenarios when the last hit would hit. Well, after playing a bit more I found some.

• You land Dthrow and the opponent DIs away at relatively low %.
  
• You land a dash attack and they tech roll away or neutral stand. (lying down, they just eat the hits without flinching).
  
• You land a Dtilt near the edge, which forces them to get back up on the ledge and meet your Drill Rush. They can choose not to get up or do a ledge attack.
  

Also, Snake's Forward Tilt's second part hits before Snake even starts swinging his arms.

So yeah Falcon I watched your video. That's exactly what I was talking about in my previous posts. Like I was saying, it's not a bug. Think about how long it actually takes to use down B starting from the beginning of the attack. The long movement part of Drill Rush can't be cancelled, only the ending. The movement itself has insanely long duration.

With the last hit, you're going to have to elaborate. I still don't see how any of situations result in Drill Rush. None of them have nearly enough hitstun to lead into the last hit. I think I mentioned this in passing earlier, but the individual hits of Drill Rush have an insanely high SDI value, so that you're never actually going to land any more than two hits of it, no matter what situation the opponent is in.

By the way, it's funny that you think Drill Rush's end lag looks unnatural, because part of the reason I did it was because it looked more natural to me. Maybe that's something we could discuss more of, although I have a feeling it's mostly a subjective thing.

About Dimensional Cape, and really any other aspects of MK's balance, have you had a gander at the rankings system on the balancer's board, yet? Some of the seemingly more dubious choices I made might be explained through the rankings. For example, the insanely low end lag and startup he has on many of his attacks is required for him to get a "5" rank in spacing, and his ability to destroy any and all zoning with dimensional cape gets him a "3" in projectiles. His overall ranking comes out to be very balanced indeed. I'm thinking, as a fellow coder, I'd love to hear any feedback you have about the system itself.

I think it's better to be a bit more practical. We can't rely solely on theories and numbers - we have to test the game out and see where the strong characters are. I think we move this discussion to balancing since there's no bug here.

EDIT: As Sonic, pressing B after using Up B sometimes makes Sonic curl up into a ball. Sonic normally can't grab the ledge during his Up B, but by pressing B to perform this trick, he can.

Gooey's Dash Attack is missing the third hit, the one that does knockback in previous versions.

Edit: Gooey's Up B is missing the star effects at the end.

Kirby's Neutral B dust effects are HUGE. Don't think that was intentional.

Kirby's roll dodge sprite seems off-center. Just look at the position of his shadow relative to him.

Kirby's Fighter B ability has an issue with the animation where it seems to end the animation while Kirby's still hitting. Ryu and Evil Ryu also have the same issue but not as noticeably.

Some pokemon hurt you even if you're the one who released them. At first I thought it had something to do with friendly fire being on but either way they deal damage to you. Only Steelix doesn't seem to harm you.

Falco's U.Smash is jump cancelable during a small window. You can hit with it, immediately jump out, and wavedash/nair/dair/shine etc.

Well, in fact the sound doesn't work, but i'm using it in mac (parallels). The character choose window is also bugged.

Sífilis Aguda wrote:

Well, in fact the sound doesn't work, but i'm using it in mac (parallels).

The sound doesn't work at all? As in, no sound effects or music?

Sífilis Aguda wrote:

The character choose window is also bugged.

Please be more specific. What are you trying to do?

Falcon8r wrote:

Sífilis Aguda wrote:

Well, in fact the sound doesn't work, but i'm using it in mac (parallels).

The sound doesn't work at all? As in, no sound effects or music?

Sífilis Aguda wrote:

The character choose window is also bugged.

Please be more specific. What are you trying to do?

The sound bug. It just don't hear anything, ad i've checked that sound was enabled.

The character one. When i want to offline play and it takes me to choose a character, this appears: https://imgur.com/xD7LAf4


And there's another problem, i just don't see which option i'm in. I mean, the game doesn't difference what i'm choosing and what i'm not. There you have a screenie: https://imgur.com/E4U06Fw