Krystal Discussion

mixing assault and adventure is an excellent idea. i vaguely recall fireballs being usable in the short gameplay i looked before saving my eyes. and i figured that wud have been an ok side B. (adventure trait 1)

then the down B as a barrier (assault trait 1)

Up B can be the rocket boost i saw somewhere in this thread (please tell me it goes up like the name implies xD;) (adventure trait 2)
and then neutral B can be the CHARGEABLE BLASTER from assault, (assault trait 2)

Or the grenades that was mentioned earlier, but I personally think it would be odd to charge into battle without the one most basic weapon all starfox chars share, the blaster.. Grenades is a nice change of pace, but I think if the fireball side b travelled similarly or slightly faster than the current one, itd serve as a safety-wall-ish option to cover you horizontallywhile you charge the blaster....additionally this blaster can fire uncharged, weaker shots. the charging has 3 stages. I think for the sake of balance the charge time should be lengthy in order to accomodate the fact that while charging, starfox characters are free to move as it charges.



feel free To fill me in on possibilities from starfox adventures. im near clueless, and heavily biased towards assault weaponry =) thanks guys.

(no but seriously, ill die happy if we get the barrier..)

I agree with mixing assault and adventures moveset, just pls, keep that back air, Det would be very sad if it gets removed too  .
And for Side Special it would make sense that Krystal can't use the staff when she already released it, that or we can remplace it with the fireballs (i prefer the ice blaster, maybe Krystal could randomly use it instead of the Fire Blaster and would freeze people).

desu wrote:

I agree with mixing assault and adventures moveset, just pls, keep that back air, Det would be very sad if it gets removed too  .
And for Side Special it would make sense that Krystal can't use the staff when she already released it, that or we can remplace it with the fireballs (i prefer the ice blaster, maybe Krystal could randomly use it instead of the Fire Blaster and would freeze people).

Yeah i was suprised when i could trap ppl between a returning staff boomerang and my...nair..with the ...staff.

?????

yeah well what we could do is have 2 side B's... (CRAZY, SOMEBODY STAHP MEH)

the cast time would be the same but holding the b during the side b would make the ice come out, and releasing it right after pressing side b would use the fireball

Side B = fireball
Side B..(hold during cast animation) = ice

just watched a vid...holding b for the ice actually turns out to be appropriate IMO. but the fireballs in assault are HELLA fast, should we slow those down?

Szion wrote:

desu wrote:

I agree with mixing assault and adventures moveset, just pls, keep that back air, Det would be very sad if it gets removed too  .
And for Side Special it would make sense that Krystal can't use the staff when she already released it, that or we can remplace it with the fireballs (i prefer the ice blaster, maybe Krystal could randomly use it instead of the Fire Blaster and would freeze people).

Yeah i was suprised when i could trap ppl between a returning staff boomerang and my...nair..with the ...staff.

?????

yeah well what we could do is have 2 side B's... (CRAZY, SOMEBODY STAHP MEH)

the cast time would be the same but holding the b during the side b would make  the ice come out, and releasing it right after pressing side b would use the fireball

Side B   = fireball
Side B..(hold during cast animation) = ice

just watched a vid...holding b for the ice actually turns out to be appropriate IMO. but the fireballs in assault are HELLA fast, should we slow those down?

@Desu~~: While yes it makes logical sense, that doesn't automatically mean that it's good for gameplay. I mean think about it, why would you ever use an attack that sacrifices roughly 60% of your attack options in favour of having a vaguely effective hitbox out there?

Though yes, keep B-Air. S*'s great.

Personally, I think the best way to fix that logic fallacy is to remove the current F-Spec entirely and replace it with...

@Szion: This amazingly fantastic idea.
Slow down the fireballs a bit though yeah. Maybe to a pace that's around the speed of the current F-Spec.

Shiruza wrote:

Szion wrote:

desu wrote:

I agree with mixing assault and adventures moveset, just pls, keep that back air, Det would be very sad if it gets removed too  .
And for Side Special it would make sense that Krystal can't use the staff when she already released it, that or we can remplace it with the fireballs (i prefer the ice blaster, maybe Krystal could randomly use it instead of the Fire Blaster and would freeze people).

Yeah i was suprised when i could trap ppl between a returning staff boomerang and my...nair..with the ...staff.

?????

yeah well what we could do is have 2 side B's... (CRAZY, SOMEBODY STAHP MEH)

the cast time would be the same but holding the b during the side b would make  the ice come out, and releasing it right after pressing side b would use the fireball

Side B   = fireball
Side B..(hold during cast animation) = ice

just watched a vid...holding b for the ice actually turns out to be appropriate IMO. but the fireballs in assault are HELLA fast, should we slow those down?

@Desu~~: While yes it makes logical sense, that doesn't automatically mean that it's good for gameplay. I mean think about it, why would you ever use an attack that sacrifices roughly 60% of your attack options in favour of having a vaguely effective hitbox out there?

Though yes, keep B-Air. S*'s great.

Personally, I think the best way to fix that logic fallacy is to remove the current F-Spec entirely and replace it with...

@Szion: This amazingly fantastic idea.
Slow down the fireballs a bit though yeah. Maybe to a pace that's around the speed of the current F-Spec.

yep, sounds good to me.


/waiting for crusade dev senpai to notice us

also i noticed i said fireballs in assault, i meant adventures x.x

Oh..an edit to the previous barrier suggestion..I remember physical attacks also being absorbed by the barrier in assault.

I think that's absurd for ssb so er..why not have the barrier reduce damage but retain hitstun and knockback? or make the first physical hit destroy the shield?

Szion wrote:

Oh..an edit to the previous barrier suggestion..I remember physical attacks also being absorbed by the barrier in assault.

I think that's absurd for ssb so er..why not have the barrier reduce damage but retain hitstun and knockback? or make the first physical hit destroy the shield?

Actually I'm pretty sure Porky has a barrier that blocks both types. In fact if I recall correctly it reflects physical damage.

Shiruza wrote:

Szion wrote:

Oh..an edit to the previous barrier suggestion..I remember physical attacks also being absorbed by the barrier in assault.

I think that's absurd for ssb so er..why not have the barrier reduce damage but retain hitstun and knockback? or make the first physical hit destroy the shield?

Actually I'm pretty sure Porky has a barrier that blocks both types. In fact if I recall correctly it reflects physical damage.

Porky's Counter Shields absorb and reflect projectiles and physical attacks. The only option against his counter shields are grabs.

O-oh nvm then, I suppose having the barrier defend against both attack types..wudnt be too crazy...but a character with these projectiles + barrier = near invincibility on approach..i feel like something needs to be done in order to weaken the barriers defense against physical attacks...even though the damn thing was my suggestion e.e brb posting when its not 5am

Szion wrote:

O-oh nvm then, I suppose having the barrier defend against both attack types..wudnt be too crazy...but a character with these projectiles + barrier = near invincibility on approach..i feel like something needs to be done in order to weaken the barriers defense against physical attacks...even though the damn thing was my suggestion e.e brb posting when its not 5am

Yeah, Porky's a heavy guy, so it's less OP when it's on him. On a faster character it could prove to be difficult, so perhaps make it a shine that reflects and negates damage and lasts slightly longer than the usual shine; that way it's good defensively, but wouldn't be too OP.

Shiruza wrote:

Szion wrote:

O-oh nvm then, I suppose having the barrier defend against both attack types..wudnt be too crazy...but a character with these projectiles + barrier = near invincibility on approach..i feel like something needs to be done in order to weaken the barriers defense against physical attacks...even though the damn thing was my suggestion e.e brb posting when its not 5am

Yeah, Porky's a heavy guy, so it's less OP when it's on him. On a faster character it could prove to be difficult, so perhaps make it a shine that reflects and negates damage and lasts slightly longer than the usual shine; that way it's good defensively, but wouldn't be too OP.

well, it never reflected damage in the game so i'm kinda against that idea..

Szion wrote:

Shiruza wrote:

Szion wrote:

O-oh nvm then, I suppose having the barrier defend against both attack types..wudnt be too crazy...but a character with these projectiles + barrier = near invincibility on approach..i feel like something needs to be done in order to weaken the barriers defense against physical attacks...even though the damn thing was my suggestion e.e brb posting when its not 5am

Yeah, Porky's a heavy guy, so it's less OP when it's on him. On a faster character it could prove to be difficult, so perhaps make it a shine that reflects and negates damage and lasts slightly longer than the usual shine; that way it's good defensively, but wouldn't be too OP.

well, it never reflected damage in the game so i'm kinda against that idea..

Then it will do all of the above except for reflect damage. It'll be a sort of like a parry in Street Fighter, only it'll last a bit longer and also reflect projectiles.

Do we have 9.1 yet @w@...

im gettin anxious to see if any of this was worth the time

I am fine with Krystal right now, but I am up and willing to see some of these changes in action. Another possibility is to have her set up similar to Ryu/Evil Ryu or Luigi/Weegee, with the (current) Assault-based moveset being the default (maybe with some edits) and an Adventures-based moveset as an alternative.

I think I found a bug with Krystal. On Kongo Jungle, Krystal sometimes fires her Blaster in rapid succession, specifically being able to fire 2 shots at near-ground level at practically the same time. It seems to happen at random, and there is no clear pattern (sometimes it fires normally, sometimes it fires when she lands on the ground after using Blaster). Oddly enough, Bowser's Castle has a similar effect if you are above the lava.

On Temple, there is the opposite effect. If she tries to use her Blaster in the air, Krystal will be locked in a "Start-up" state until she lands, and she will shoot. She can not move during this either. The same thing happens on Green Hill Zone, PAC-MAZE, Excitebike, Cut Man Arena, Planet Core, Distortion World, Burned Tower, and Saffron City.

Pilotwings is unique in the fact that it has both effects depending on which layer you are on. Casino Night Zone, Suzaku Castle, Hyrule Castle, and Battlefield's side platforms mixes the 2 together, as you do fire, but afterwards, you get locked in the "Start-up" state until you land.

It appears to be caused by the different platforms, but I don't understand why

An assault or adventures moveset alternates..would be nice

id rather them combined honestly
B charge blaster
side b staff fire
side b hold staff ice
up b vixen flash as they call it??
down B barrier
air game would be staff hits and kicks,
ground game wud be weapons/staff mostly.

just seems like so much missed potential, i feel like the devs have never played adventures or assault when i look at this krystal

Szion wrote:

An assault or adventures moveset alternates..would be nice

id rather them combined honestly
B  charge blaster
side b staff fire
side b hold staff ice
up b vixen flash as they call it??
down B barrier
air game would be staff hits and kicks,
ground game wud be  weapons/staff mostly.

just seems like so much missed potential, i feel like the devs have never played adventures or assault when i look at this krystal

I think it is called "Fire Vixen," and while I am personally fine with her attack set-up, it would be interesting to see some more "true" inspiration from Assault/Adventures (along with a sprite that actually looks like it is from either Assault, Command, or similar to Smashified). It would also get rid of the stupid (though quite hilarious) Double-Staff

wheeled_tank wrote:

Szion wrote:

An assault or adventures moveset alternates..would be nice

id rather them combined honestly
B  charge blaster
side b staff fire
side b hold staff ice
up b vixen flash as they call it??
down B barrier
air game would be staff hits and kicks,
ground game wud be  weapons/staff mostly.

just seems like so much missed potential, i feel like the devs have never played adventures or assault when i look at this krystal

I think it is called "Fire Vixen," and while I am personally fine with her attack set-up, it would be interesting to see some more "true" inspiration from Assault/Adventures (along with a sprite that actually looks like it is from either Assault, Command, or similar to Smashified). It would also get rid of the stupid (though quite hilarious) Double-Staff

amen..the double staff is lol..
the sprite is even more laughable.

As long as the down-special gives enough stun to land a solid b-air, I'm ok with what Crystal's moveset.

Her sprite however is hideous lol. Almost scary hideous.
Other than that, perfect imo

I wouldn't mind trying my amature hand at touching up Krystal's current sprite. I just need to find it (I saw it somewhere online...)

Found it. Apparently, it is a custom one made for something called TotW (at least that was in part of the sheet's name)

There. A basic re-touch of the current Krystal sprite to make it look more like Krystal (and enlarging it took 10 times longer.

wheeled_tank wrote:

I wouldn't mind trying my amature hand at touching up Krystal's current sprite. I just need to find it (I saw it somewhere online...)

Found it. Apparently, it is a custom one made for something called TotW (at least that was in part of the sheet's name)

There. A basic re-touch of the current Krystal sprite to make it look more like Krystal (and enlarging it took 10 times longer.

That looked like it was tedious to do lol

NOW THAT looks like something identifiable.

AMEN.

Is it because my edit is blue and white instead of turquoise and Sonic-Face beige? I feel like it is that.

I would have made it in the Smashified style as opposed to the Command style, but my skill in Spriting is non existent. Editing the colors, however, is what I can do well.

As for the grenades mentioned earlier, they could possibly be used for the forward Smash, using similar mechanics to Snake's up Smash.

Devs get this guy to redo Krystal's sprites

id rather grenades be on a B move..and even then not really

air side b.
e.e...

forward smash doesnt have to be that complicated.

a staff swing or a kick of some sort

Maybe have her use Fox's S-Smash from SSB64? The one where Fox spinned around like a drill while kicking forwards, that'd be neat.

Kirb-Star wrote:

Maybe have her use Fox's S-Smash from SSB64? The one where Fox spinned around like a drill while kicking forwards, that'd be neat.

Don't say that! I just recently learnes how to properly use her side smash lol
I'd be cool but a little generic imo. Fox and Falco are combat heavy and I like how Krystal has a more weapon's focus.

And I never actually noticed the double staff contradiction umtil you guys pointed it out lol

Kirb-Star wrote:

Maybe have her use Fox's S-Smash from SSB64? The one where Fox spinned around like a drill while kicking forwards, that'd be neat.

Id be fine with that

then we cud move her fsmash to dsmash because she never weilds 2 guns at once ._.

im gonna try my hand at a krystal moveset

i think it would be cool if her specials represented starfox adventure, and her smash moves represented assault.

attack beginng with a (*) are already in crusade
---
SPECIALS
    N SPECIAL
         She uses the fire blast from her staff

Images:

   
    F SPECIAL
         She uses the ice blast from her staff

Images:

    U SPECIAL
         She uses the rocket boost from her staff

Images:

    D SPECIAL
         She uses the quake from her staff

Images:

SMASH ATTACKS
   UP SMASH
         She sweeps at the air with the machine gun firing several no knock back bullets
         

Images:

    *FORWARD SMASH
          She fires at the ground with a homeing rocket
         

Image:

    *DOWN SMASH
          she fires at the ground with blasters
         

Image:

A/TILTS
    A
         two swipes to a multi-hitting staff twirl
         

Image:

    U TILTS
         i believe her current up tilt should be a quicker version of her current up smash
    *D TILTS
         a quick tail swipe or slower staff swipe
    *F TILTS
         simple staff swipe
*AERIALS
    i like to think her aerials could represent aerials of the spacies in in other smash games.....which they already kinda do so i wouldent really change them

---

huh... it was mostly just the specials