Super Smash Bros Wii U/3DS Discussion (NEW)

Ganonthegreat wrote:

AEM wrote:

Ganonthegreat wrote:

Okay the Friday POTD was a complete dud, there's a Direct today, Sakurai said along with the Robin trailer that we were "nearing the end of trailers", and there's just over two weeks to release. Looks like a perfect storm for a new character trailer.

In a Japanese only Nintendo Direct?

Sure.

We'll see, but I'm very confident we'll see a newcomer today.

EDIT: It should also be noted that Sakurai retweeted the announcement tweet.

People who worked on Xenoblade retweeted the single character reveal trailer, didn't get Shulk.

Expect a 3DS trailer at best, but I'm doubting a character reveal.

AEM wrote:

Ganonthegreat wrote:

AEM wrote:

Ganonthegreat wrote:

Okay the Friday POTD was a complete dud, there's a Direct today, Sakurai said along with the Robin trailer that we were "nearing the end of trailers", and there's just over two weeks to release. Looks like a perfect storm for a new character trailer.

In a Japanese only Nintendo Direct?

Sure.

We'll see, but I'm very confident we'll see a newcomer today.

EDIT: It should also be noted that Sakurai retweeted the announcement tweet.

People who worked on Xenoblade retweeted the single character reveal trailer, didn't get Shulk.

Expect a 3DS trailer at best, but I'm doubting a character reveal.

...care to place a wager on it?

So we got Shulk, and considering his portrait matches the leak, that should erase any existing doubts about its legitimacy.

Gameplay wise, he looks pretty cool.

Mr. Mistress wrote:

So we got Shulk, and considering his portrait matches the leak, that should erase any existing doubts about its legitimacy.

Gameplay wise, he looks pretty cool.

I'm disappointed we got this leak now, I miss the surprise Sakurai has to offer, Shulk looks neat, but I've never played his games so I also know little about him, maybe I'll get the remake for 3DS.

But yeah, this week was "menu week" until today, and every menu also matched the leaks, so I believe the leak 100% now, unfortunately. I guess no Bandana Waddle Dee ;-;

Dr. CanadianBacon wrote:

I'm disappointed we got this leak now, I miss the surprise Sakurai has to offer, Shulk looks neat, but I've never played his games so I also know little about him, maybe I'll get the remake for 3DS.

But yeah, this week was "menu week" until today, and every menu also matched the leaks, so I believe the leak 100% now, unfortunately. I guess no Bandana Waddle Dee ;-;

Can join you in your sorrows ;-;

im very pleased with Shulk.

I never cared for the surprise factor as long as the final roster is good to my liking, but unfortunately thats not the case

Smash King wrote:

im very pleased with Shulk.

I never cared for the surprise factor as long as the final roster is good to my liking, but unfortunately thats not the case

How so? I mean we only lost a few characters. Every other newcomer I've seen so far is solid.

Personally, I'm not pleased with Bowser Jr., Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, Mii Fighters, Lucina, Rosalina, and to some extent Greninja. There are a few more, probably, but this is just off the top of my head.

I would rather have Toad over the 3 Mario characters mentioned above.

Greninja I can give a pass to only cause Smash had always presented a new gen Pokemon since Melee, but I never was a fan of relevancy being the core reason to include a character. So this is something that Im kinda numb to at this point, but still a bad taste.

The others I feel were a waste of time. I would rather that Sakurai invested the time to bring back the missing vets instead of making these underwhelming clones and customization. Or at least work on DLC so that we can get those characters back.

Snake and Wolf were 2/3 of my most anticipated vets, the other being Marth who is already confirmed. So for me, I lost more than I gain out of this roster. Thus making it a disappointing roster, personally.

I also think that Wolf and the Ice Climbers shouldn't have been removed; I think it was a bad move from Sakurai, though we do not know the full story. It is also possible that the leaked roster is not the full roster and is missing unlockables.

We now know a bit more about Shulk.

Shulk is more than a mere swordsman character. He has the ability to use different "Monado Arts" which are basically buff and nerfs he can assign to himself at will. Here's a list of the forms Shulk can use.

[List of Monado Arts]
翔 (Jump): higher jumps, lower defense.
疾 (Speed): faster movement, weaker attacks.
盾(Shield): higher defense, slower movement.
斬(Buster): stronger attacks, weaker launch ability.
撃(Smash): Stronger launch ability, weaker attacks, lower defense against launching.

Maybe the logic was that DHD "replaces" ICs as a retro rep?

Not saying that that's a satisfactory reason (it's not), but it's probably what's going through their heads.

The only real disappointment on the roster for me was Lucina, and only because she's a clone. I'm fine with Dark Pit and Dr. Mario, because being easy to make means they're unlikely to take a spot away from another character. Kid Icarus doesn't really have many other reps, and there isn't a cap on Mario series reps. Lucina though, is different. Just like the other two, she's easy to make, but this time she does take another character's place. It's highly unlikely that there would be five or more Fire Emblem reps. Most people were expecting two or three, and were surprised by four. So Lucina has actually actively prevented Roy's return. That's my one gripe done.

It'd be interesting to see how Shulk is balanced. The cynic in me is facepalming already.

The icies thing could just be that the ice climbers are the most consistently unbalanced and often get the most complaints about their playstyle. Sakurai couldn't get them to work "reasonably" in over 10 years so he gave up on them. Or it could be a DLC thing, who knows.

I'm pretty sure Sakurai said that they were struggling with characters with multiple models "Like Ice Climbers". I have no doubt that Ice Climbers were supposed to be in the game but they probably couldn't find a way to make it work.

I mean think about it, while it's true adding a second Ice Climbers won't damage performance you need to look at worst case scenario. That scenario would be online, with the most complicated stage, with Pokéballs and Assist Trophies on very high and Ice Climbers vs Ice Climbers vs Ice Climbers vs Ice Climbers. The stress on everything would be simply too high and would result in a lot of lag. For a game that prides itself on 60FPS regardless that would be a huge blow.

Regarding balance, I suppose it could be a valid reason, but something tells me that Sakurai wouldn't defend overall balance over a single character.

And in regards to perfomance, while it does make sense, there are a lot of other characters who have more than one model attached to them or generated for them such as Olimar, King Dedede and Rosalina.

One of the balancing changes with Dedede is that he no longer throws Waddle Dee, only those spiked balls. As for Luma and Pikmin, they both have very simple models. With Ice Climbers on the other hand you have two fully detailed models with the same texture detail, plus Nana has a full range of attacks and hitboxes too.

Ganonthegreat wrote:

One of the balancing changes with Dedede is that he no longer throws Waddle Dee, only those spiked balls. As for Luma and Pikmin, they both have very simple models. With Ice Climbers on the other hand you have two fully detailed models with the same texture detail, plus Nana has a full range of attacks and hitboxes too.

I don't think that there would much of a difference, but I don't know.

That's interesting about Dedede. The move was always meant to be about the Waddle Dees and the Waddle Doos; the Gordos were thrown in as a rare, powerful bonus. Gordos themselves aren't really that associated with Dedede. So removing Waddle Dees is certainly not a change that benefits representation in any way.

I can't think of any reason why Waddle Dees would be taken out, other than framerate. So it's reasonable that ICs suffered a similar problem.

Ganondorf inadvertently confirmed!



At 0:56 watch the screen with Pikachu. For a brief moment there is one of those "off-screen" character bubbles. Pause it and look at the bubble, you'll see Ganondorf in it.

Yeah, lol, Ganondorf confirmed I guess then

Not like there was any doubt...

I bet whoever made that part of the video if kicking himself xD

Ganonthegreat wrote:

One of the balancing changes with Dedede is that he no longer throws Waddle Dee, only those spiked balls. As for Luma and Pikmin, they both have very simple models. With Ice Climbers on the other hand you have two fully detailed models with the same texture detail, plus Nana has a full range of attacks and hitboxes too.

Popo and Nana's models have half of the polygons as the other characters.
It's not like they have the same detail or anything.

I figure they were hoping to find ways to balance the two of them to keep them together, but couldn't do it in a way Sakurai was pleased with it. So they probably will rebalance them so you only play as one of them. But that probably wouldn't have been possible with the remaining development time, so that was scrapped and will probably be DLC at some point in the future.

I feel that DLC really needs to happen with SSB4. What is Sakurai gonna really do after Smash 4? Yea, perhaps a break since he had to make KI: Uprising & SSB4 one after another, but then what? He isn't as involved with the Kirby series as he use to and I doubt he will jump in and do another Kid Icarus game.

With Mario Kart 8 proving that Nintendo is willing to embrace DLC, this kinda puts Smash up to the expectation to follow the same route. Not doing so will upset people.

Smash King wrote:

Personally, I'm not pleased with Bowser Jr., Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, Mii Fighters, Lucina, Rosalina, and to some extent Greninja. There are a few more, probably, but this is just off the top of my head.

I would rather have Toad over the 3 Mario characters mentioned above.

Greninja I can give a pass to only cause Smash had always presented a new gen Pokemon since Melee, but I never was a fan of relevancy being the core reason to include a character. So this is something that Im kinda numb to at this point, but still a bad taste.

The others I feel were a waste of time. I would rather that Sakurai invested the time to bring back the missing vets instead of making these underwhelming clones and customization. Or at least work on DLC so that we can get those characters back.

Snake and Wolf were 2/3 of my most anticipated vets, the other being Marth who is already confirmed. So for me, I lost more than I gain out of this roster. Thus making it a disappointing roster, personally.

So you pretty much hate all the newcomers

Smash King wrote:

I feel that DLC really needs to happen with SSB4. What is Sakurai gonna really do after Smash 4? Yea, perhaps a break since he had to make KI: Uprising & SSB4 one after another, but then what? He isn't as involved with the Kirby series as he use to and I doubt he will jump in and do another Kid Icarus game.

With Mario Kart 8 proving that Nintendo is willing to embrace DLC, this kinda puts Smash up to the expectation to follow the same route. Not doing so will upset people.

Hopefully, Smash will get more ongoing support than Playstation Allstars did... Wait, why am I even doubting it would? If Allstars got ~2 years of DLC and patch support, not to mention it barely had any fanbase or interest, Smash could at the very least match that figure.

C_Mill24 wrote:

Smash King wrote:

Personally, I'm not pleased with Bowser Jr., Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, Mii Fighters, Lucina, Rosalina, and to some extent Greninja. There are a few more, probably, but this is just off the top of my head.

I would rather have Toad over the 3 Mario characters mentioned above.

Greninja I can give a pass to only cause Smash had always presented a new gen Pokemon since Melee, but I never was a fan of relevancy being the core reason to include a character. So this is something that Im kinda numb to at this point, but still a bad taste.

The others I feel were a waste of time. I would rather that Sakurai invested the time to bring back the missing vets instead of making these underwhelming clones and customization. Or at least work on DLC so that we can get those characters back.

Snake and Wolf were 2/3 of my most anticipated vets, the other being Marth who is already confirmed. So for me, I lost more than I gain out of this roster. Thus making it a disappointing roster, personally.

So you pretty much hate all the newcomers

Not all.

I like Little Mac and Palutena to some extent

Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, & Shulk I feel are good choices, though they don't really give me much hype.

The rest I can do without.

Some sort of Smash Press conference or something is going on right now, so perhaps we'll be getting some news soon? I'm not sure, but maaaybe.

Where are you getting this information?

https://twitter.com/GameXplain/status/505444032332316672

I saw this here, I also saw a few other things. I heard there was a new build of the game there, but I'm not completely sure.

@SK

Dry wrote:

Maybe the logic was that DHD "replaces" ICs as a retro rep?

Not saying that that's a satisfactory reason (it's not), but it's probably what's going through their heads.

The only real disappointment on the roster for me was Lucina, and only because she's a clone. I'm fine with Dark Pit and Dr. Mario, because being easy to make means they're unlikely to take a spot away from another character. Kid Icarus doesn't really have many other reps, and there isn't a cap on Mario series reps. Lucina though, is different. Just like the other two, she's easy to make, but this time she does take another character's place. It's highly unlikely that there would be five or more Fire Emblem reps. Most people were expecting two or three, and were surprised by four. So Lucina has actually actively prevented Roy's return. That's my one gripe done.

It'd be interesting to see how Shulk is balanced. The cynic in me is facepalming already.

Clone replacing a clone, much disappointment