Roy (Fire Emblem) Discussion - For those whom I must protect, I will not lose!

SSBM: The highy awaited second part of the Smash saga has been finally released for the Gamecube, and introduced not just one, but TWO characters from Fire Emblem. They are Marth Lowell from the first Fire Emblem on NES, and Roy Elwood, who would get a GBA Fire Emblem afterwards.
SSBB: The highly awaited third part of the Smash saga has been finally released for the Wii, but it was a let down compated to Melee for certain people. That game also had two Fire Emblem characters. Marth Lowell as a Melee veteran, and Ike, who came from the first console Fire Emblem that was released outside of Japan. Roy was intended to appear as well, but time constraints pretty much made that and playable Mewtwo and Dr. Mario not possible.
SSB4: The highly awaited fourth part of the Smash saga has been finally released for the 3DS and Wii U, and it was at least better than Brawl. However, it's still worse than Melee. Cutting Ice Climbers from the roster was pretty much the most controversial thing that ever happened in a Smash game. However, it DOES add Dr. Mario and Mewtwo back, who were indeed intended to reappear in Brawl. After a while, Roy also finally returns and even gets an updated and buffed up moveset.
SSB Crusade: This one seems to be a mix of Melee, Brawl, and Street Fighter. It also has more veterans. Even Pichu is in, so if someone like friggin Pichu can be added as a playable, then surely Roy Elwood could be added as well, right? But Roy is not playable there either.

And now it's time to fix THAT! So I propose for the Lord of Melee Pharae to be finally playable, combining the best things of his Melee Smash 4 and Project M appearance and also add new things.
Moveset:
*Sweetspot: Center of the blade (just like in Melee, but more effective like in Smash 4)
*Non-Smash Normals: Same like in Smash 4
*Forward Smash: Roy's last hit of the Project M version of the Downwards Double Edge Dance, deals multiple hits of fire damage
*Down Smash: Same like in Project M, but with two spins
*Up Smash: Roy does an upwards stab with an explosion at the end of the blade, which deals multiple hits of fire damage and launches the opponents high on the last hit, just like in Smash 4
*Neutral Air: Roy spins around with his sword, leaving a damaging fire trail behind
*Front Air:Roy does a fiery stab in front of him that deals multiple hits of damage
*Back Air: Roy does a fiery stab behind him that deals multiple hits of damage
*Up Air: Roy performs an upward slash that covers a good distance thanks to the fiery trail it leaves behind and has a chance of giving a meteor smash if sweetspot
*Down Air: Roy swings his sword down, which causes a spike (same like in Smash 4)
*Neutral B: Flare Blade - At first, it looks like Roy's original Neutral B from Melee with the same name, but now it causes an explosion a distance away from Roy, and you can control the distance by pressing left/right
*Side B: Phoenix Tail - Roy does a dash attack with his rapier Sword of Seals, which can be charged, just like Ike's Side B. However, Roy's dash attack leaves a trail of small flames behind. The kicker? They harm the opponents as well.
*Up B: Blazer - Basically a buffed up version of Roy's original Up B from Melee with the same name. The initial hit is still the same, but Roy can also do a second horizontal slash. Not only does that second hit move Roy even further upwards and improve his recovery options, the second slash is also easier to sweetspot (but has got a smaller hitbox because of the way Roy swings his rapier Sword of Seal).
*Down B: Counter - Roy prepares himself for the next attack, and then counters it. Every other swordsman of Fire Emblem has a Counter in the Smash games, so it's only natural that Roy gets a Counter as well, simply out of consistency.
Final Smash: Sealing Slash - Roy will spin around his rapier Sword of Seal, trapping opponents that get hit by the spin, and then does a powerful Critical Hit, launching opponents far away. Said Critical Hit also creates a fire wave, which also damages opponents and travels a short distance.

List of supporters:
*VultureDuck
*OmegaSteve777
*Roy (OH MY GOD!)
*desu
*Pakeli
italic = not confirmed yet

So come on, let it finally happen. Let the Lord of Melee Pharae finally join the Crusade, so he can finally show just how much of a lion he REALLY is!

There's actually already a topic for Roy so you might want to post there: https://projectcrusade.forumotion.com/t3700-roy-fire-emblem-discussion

TaXMaN wrote:

There's actually already a topic for Roy so you might want to post there: https://projectcrusade.forumotion.com/t3700-roy-fire-emblem-discussion

Oh, didn't saw that thread. Thanks.
However, that thread is pretty old, and the OP didn't listed any moveset specifics, and I fear to post in too old threads because "LOL Necro-Bump".

You can bump the thread as long as you have something relevant to offer or anything worth adding to the argument. If the thread is dead for an extended period of time, you can request to take over and start a new one. However, its best to let an administration know in advance.

TrinitroMan wrote:

TaXMaN wrote:

There's actually already a topic for Roy so you might want to post there: https://projectcrusade.forumotion.com/t3700-roy-fire-emblem-discussion

Oh, didn't saw that thread. Thanks.
However, that thread is pretty old, and the OP didn't listed any moveset specifics, and I fear to post in too old threads because "LOL Necro-Bump".

If you read down further in the post there's some legitimate discussion of Roy and other Fire Emblem characters (none of which involves the OP). Not saying you should Necro-Bump (especially since you've already made your own Roy topic) but maybe go through it and take into account some of the stuff being said there.

Okay, I went ahead and did it.
Some people suggest making his playstyle and feel to be more like Ike.
I'm not really fond of that idea, because such playstyle doesn't fit a rapier wielder in my eyes (and Roy is no exception).
However, the idea of adding an explosion a distance away from the sword swing is actually a nice idea, and a new pupose as to why someone would charge Roy's Neutral Special: While you charge it, you can actually determine, how far away the explosion is by simply pressing left and right while you hold down the Special Attack button, and charging the neutral special would not only increase the power of both the sword swing and the explosion, it would also give you more time to determine the distance between the explosion and the sword swing when pressing left or right.

TrinitroMan wrote:

Okay, I went ahead and did it.
Some people suggest making his playstyle and feel to be more like Ike.
I'm not really fond of that idea, because such playstyle doesn't fit a rapier wielder in my eyes (and Roy is no exception).
However, the idea of adding an explosion a distance away from the sword swing is actually a nice idea, and a new pupose as to why someone would charge Roy's Neutral Special: While you charge it, you can actually determine, how far away the explosion is by simply pressing left and right while you hold down the Special Attack button, and charging the neutral special would not only increase the power of both the sword swing and the explosion, it would also give you more time to determine the distance between the explosion and the sword swing when pressing left or right.

Are you suggesting we give Roy din's fire+?

Uhm...no. You can only control the horizontal distance of the explosion, but the explosion will always be either on ground level or on the same level like Roy.

Giving Roy Ike's playstyle is based on the idea that he'll be using the Sword of Seals, rather than the Rapier. But, I don't know which weapon people would prefer he had.

Well, I would definitely prefer him to have the rapier, because that's what he is known for: For being a rapier-weilding lord.

TrinitroMan wrote:

SSB4: The highly awaited fourth part of the Smash saga has been finally released for the 3DS and Wii U, and it was at least better than Brawl. However, it's still worse than Melee.

First of all how dare you. Just becuase SSB4 is slightly less skillful doesn't mean it's worse. Say it's "Worse in my opinion", please.

About Roy...he's really not iconic enough to be a returning fighter. He was only put in to 1: Make the roster look bigger and 2: Market whatever Fire Emblem game he was supposed to be in. Basically every character nowadays has a reason to be in smash, one way or another. Marth is the first Fire Emblem protagonist, Ike is the only Fire Emblem protagonist who isn't royal, Robin is customizeable and is a spellcaster, and Lucina was added as a "Beginner's Marth", plus she played a big role in Fire Emblem: Awakening. Roy was just added for marketing and serves no purpose anymore, with the exeption of Nostalgia.

So why was Roy supossed to be playable in Brawl then? His files in Brawl are NOT leftovers, but new empty files.
Plus, that's not the only reason why I don't like SSB4 as much as Melee. I'm still griefing for Ice Climbers. ;_;

Roy is the least likable FE lord
All characters were intended to return from Melee to Brawl bar Young Link (who was replaced with Toon Link) and the only reason Roy didn't make it in is because he was low priority, i.e. not important.

But he IS important!
He and Marth were the very first Fire Emblem characters to have a Smash Bros appearance!
And everyone who doesn't like Roy just cannot appreciate his gameplay.

TrinitroMan wrote:

Everyone who doesn't like Roy just cannot appreciate his gameplay.

Dude, could you not make mass generalizations about stupid shit like this? Roy never progressed out of clone state besides perhaps a well-deserved fix in Project M, so don't be surprised that there are people out there, both Smash and Fire Emblem fans, that dislike Roy.

TrinitroMan wrote:

But he IS important!
He and Marth were the very first Fire Emblem characters to have a Smash Bros appearance!
And everyone who doesn't like Roy just cannot appreciate his gameplay.

If he was that important, then he would have returned in Brawl and 3DS/WiiU...OH WAIT!!!

Being on-topic. I don't really mind seeing Roy again as long that he has a different moveset. I'm not a fan of the current moveset, especially the final smash, there are potentially better options than a clone of Marth's.

Hmm...wait, I have an idea for a different Final Smash for Roy:
Roy will switch his rapier with the Sword of Seal and do a super-powerful attack.
However, I still have to decide, how that attack looks like, because while I do have the Fire Emblem game that has Roy as the main hero, I never came to the point in that game, where Roy would receive the Sword of Seal (he probably gets that very VERY late in the game).
However, I will keep his Down B, no matter what.
BTW, I'm updating the first post right now.

It's definitely an improvement, at least in my opinion.

To be honest, I'm glad they cut Ice Climbers. They were annoying, had one game in their series (Kid Icarus had 2 games and got a sequel after Brawl, of course Pit would be staying) and didn't have any real impact on the NES. Plus, they had broken chaingrabs in both Melee and Brawl.

Back to Roy, though. The Final Smash seems decent, but not enough to get my support. I want to see that Roy isn't just "Glorified Marth". I want to see what his games, and his character is about. A flaming sword? Awesome! Let me see more of it. Maybe have him thrust his sword into the ground for his Down Smash, creating flames next to him from the impact.

Hmm...I dunno...maybe?
I seriously haven't bothered with Normals and Smashs back then, because he already appeared in a previous Smash game and I thought he could easily use the normals and Smashs he had in Melee and Project M for the most part.
I did made a more elaborate moveset for Squall, though, because unlike Roy, Squall never appeared in any Smash game (for obvious reasons).

P.S.: I actually did liked the idea of Ice Climbers. Not so much the execution, though. If I was to add the Ice Cimbers in a Smash game, I would first create a sequel to Ice Climber, so I could change up the moveset around to reflect their appearance from there.

We have to change more than his specials. I'm pretty sure Crusade tries to de-clone most characters as much as possible, so if they're going to add him, why not change all of his attacks?

Hmm...could work.
Too bad that I'm not that good at coming up with new original normals and smashes... ^_^;

Forward smash could be a horizontal slash, which leaves a big flame after it that knocks back opponents far. Then, the up smash could be a Toon link-ish Left-to-right slash, only that it leaves a trail of embers after it. Right after this, Roy slashes again, right-to-left this time, and creates a big flame above him. Just some ideas, I know nothing about Binding Blade.

Also, I think I should mention that Roy appears in Awakening. I don't know how or where, but he does.

As a way to celebrate Roy Elwood's possible return to Smash 4 (I knew it!), I have updated the first post.
Basically, I have finally found the actual names for Roy's special moves. Of course I would take advantage from THAT!

Eliwood, with an "i". Even then, I'm not sure if you'd really call him that. As far as I know taking your father's name as a surname isn't a norm in FE's idiom. You could possibly get away with "Roy Pherae", as in Roy Duke of Pherae. Just "Roy" is probably the best.

Anyway, I'd suggest trying to make Roy's moveset even more unique. You'll be hard pressed to do that if you're using the Rapier, since Rapier Roy is practically identical to Marth in the original games. It's only when he picks up the Sword of Seals, a big two-handed sword, that he actually becomes his own character.

Otherwise, I would prefer literally any other lord in the series, just because they are far more unique and interesting than Roy.

Lucina is more unique and interesting than Roy?
EDIT: Nevermind, misread your post.
But anyway, I really want Roy to keep his rapier, because that's what he is known best for.
However, I am sure that move unique moves can be created even when using the rapier.

1: That thing about the leaked sound files could easily be fake, or just a placeholder. I mean, why would they bother adding files for two characters when the Smash Ballot isn't even over yet? Those 2 are hardly even in the Top 10 most voted characters! (Plus there's the whole deal with Roy the Koopaling)

2: He is only best-known for using the Rapier since that's what he had in Melee. And in Melee, he was a walking, rushed out commercial clone of Marth. I say change it to the Sword Of Seals, or don't have Roy in the game at all. Preferably the latter.

If they decide to add Roy for whatever stupid reason I really hope he's just an alt of Marth, since that's practically what he is in Melee.

Meh, I still think that the Sword of Seals should be saved for his Final Smash, if at all.
Plus, I really want to show that Roy can have a more diverse moveset even when using the rapier.
At least, it's in progress, how the Neutral B has shown.
However, his Down B being Counter is a requirement, that's for sure.

Sorry for the double post, but I have updated the first post again. I really hope this can be now considered his final moveset. And out of posterity, here it is again:
Sweetspot: Center of the blade (just like in Melee)
Forward Smash: Roy's last hit of the Project M version of the Downwards Double Edge Dance, deals multiple hits of fire damage
Down Smash: Same like in Project M, but with two spins
Up Smash: Roy does a slash above his head. Both the rapier and the fire cresent created by the slash hurt the opponent, so it definitely has a good reach.
Neutral B: Flare Blade - At first, it looks like Roy's original Neutral B from Melee with the same name, but now it causes an explosion a distance away from Roy, and you can control the distance by pressing left/right
Side B: Phoenix Tail - Roy does a dash attack with his rapier, which can be charged, just like Ike's Side B. However, Roy's dash attack leaves a trail of small flames behind. The kicker? They harm the opponents as well.
Up B: Blazer - Basically a buffed up version of Roy's original Up B from Melee with the same name. The initial hit is still the same, but Roy can also do a second horizontal slash. Not only does that second hit move Roy even further upwards and improve his recovery options, the second slash is also easier to sweetspot (but has got a smaller hitbox because of the way Roy swings his rapier).
Down B: Counter - Roy prepares himself for the next attack, and then counters it. Every other swordsman of Fire Emblem has a Counter in the Smash games, so it's only natural that Roy gets a Counter as well, simply out of consistency.
Final Smash: Sword of Seal - Roy will switch his rapier for the titular Sword of Seal, and then stabs the ground with it. After that, fire pillars appear in front and behind Roy, and deal massive fire damage, which can easily result into the opponent getting sent behind the blastzones.