| Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion | |
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Roy Level 7 CPU
1169 RoyMaster4
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:17 am | |
| If there was a way to shorten the seesaw time it might work. The reason Sonic's spring works is that it's instant. Jim has to take the time to pull out a weight and put it on the other side. I don't think finding a unique up special is THAT important when there are only so many things you can do to help recovery, so an inflated head isn't too bad. Doesn't feel very Jim-esque, though.
Perhaps about the gun switching, but I don't think Jim could switch weapons at will in his original games. It would be an interesting mechanic you have to keep track of, something to make him more unique. |
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TaXMaN Level 6 CPU
689
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:06 am | |
| - Roy wrote:
- If there was a way to shorten the seesaw time it might work. The reason Sonic's spring works is that it's instant. Jim has to take the time to pull out a weight and put it on the other side. I don't think finding a unique up special is THAT important when there are only so many things you can do to help recovery, so an inflated head isn't too bad. Doesn't feel very Jim-esque, though.
Perhaps about the gun switching, but I don't think Jim could switch weapons at will in his original games. It would be an interesting mechanic you have to keep track of, something to make him more unique. Fox and Falco's Up B also takes time to execute. Jim's Up B can be shortened by reducing the time he lifts up the weight to two seconds. The weight itself should not take long to land on the other side of the seesaw either (Jim doesn't have to toss it that high into the air). Jim couldn't switch through his guns at all in his games but is it really that unoriginal for him to be able to switch between his guns at will? I don't know of anyone in the crusade cast who switches between attacks with their Down B (unless you count Megaman but that got removed obviously). |
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Smash King Smash King
8744 EJ88201
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:19 pm | |
| I think the inflated head can work if done right. Lets say this. Jim inflates his head by placing his thump in his mouth and blowing into it. He then floats around. If attacked while floating, his head deflates and he is spinning 360 degree angle before plummeting down to a helpless state. The rotation acts as an unintentional offense for Jim to give him some sort of advantage since the recovery is rather slow. He doesn't do the rotation if he deflates on its own.
I can also agree with Roy concerning the issue with Seesaw as an Up B. Him struggling to carry and throw the weight is the humor of the character. |
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Roy Level 7 CPU
1169 RoyMaster4
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:48 pm | |
| The issue with switching weapons with vB is that it's a concept that's been tossed around quite a bit (Mega Man and Sora in SSF2, Mega Man here). While it usually never lasts in the end, it's probably best to avoid it if possible. I think it would be best if he only had 2 projectiles - He has a few plasma shots, which after they are used up he has to resort to the normal gun for a short time (like Bronze Sword vs Levin Sword for Robin). The normal gun would have unlimited ammo here. It's not like he's losing an option - generally, the plasma would be the best option.
I think we can work the seesaw (seeing how iconic it is) into his forward smash (the whip should probably be related to his tilts or normal A). Let's say his fsmash involved a seesaw appearing under him and he throws a weight forward onto the other side. The weight itself hitting the opponent constitutes the forward smash, but Jim is sent into the air regardless. This serves a purpose competitively, as it allows the attack to be difficult to punish (most would simply roll to the other side or shield+grab, but that won't work).
For Up Special... the inflatable head is probably the best option. He'll usually recover via the rocket anyways, so this is just a last-resort upward recovery. The only other good option I can think of would be Snot related - just have him send Snot upwards at an angle, like Olimar's and ZSS' Brawl recovery as a tether. |
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TaXMaN Level 6 CPU
689
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:13 am | |
| After thinking the facts through I can't do anything but agree with you both. The 360 degree spin head deflation idea has Earthworm Jim written all over it! I also love the fsmash idea with the seesaw. I think Jim's head whip attack should change to his fTilt then. The gun idea Roy just mentioned above could also work. That only leaves us with one problem, though. What should Jim's down B be? |
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Johnny64
1272
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:20 am | |
| Down B could possibly be his Whip, being a Tether Recovery? on the ground it would help as ranged attack, to space the enemie Also, i agree with all the ideas up ^ |
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Smash King Smash King
8744 EJ88201
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:26 pm | |
| Using his head as a whip for his tilt attacks makes sense to me. It can even be used for his rapid jabs.
I don't think him using his whip for Down B would work. I would suggest something funny, but effective. Perhaps there is a way he can use the infamous cows.
Also, I got an interesting idea for his Dash Attack. What if he was to use his bouncing pad from "Puppy Love" in Earthworm Jim 2? He does a short leap forward and slightly trips. If the opponent is hit by the front end of the bouncing pad, they are hit like any usual dash attack. However, cause of the nature of the bouncing pad, the opponent would take less damage and more knockback due to the bounce. If Jim uses the Dash Attack on an opponent who is falling from above, the opponent is launched back up. Launching them upward would allow Jim to either follow up with a air attack or shooting upward with his gun, thus creating a 2-hit combo. Here is the video of the bounce pad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_KfTchsqDM
As for the Seesaw, makes sense for a FSmash. To make it more beneficial, if opponent is hit by the anvil, they are launched upward. Since Jim is also being sent upward since he is on the other end of the SeeSaw, Jim is sent up with the opponent. While opponent is stunned from the hit of the anvil, this allows Jim to follow up with an air attack for a 2-hit combo as well.
EDIT:
Not sure if this is a good idea or not, but I would like to share it. What if we add this gimmick where Jim's head separates from his suit after taking a certain amount of damage? His suit is left where Jim was last hit, while you are playing as his head and hopping around the stage. This allows Jim to have better speed, mobility, and more rapid hits. However, this makes him twice as weak and easily KO'd. Whoever is playing as Jim as 2 following options.....
1. Take advantage of your speed, mobility, and rapid hits to get some quick damage in.
2. Run back to where the suit was last hit and get back in the suit to avoid being easily KO'd in your "head" form.
When in "head" state, Jim's suit can be attacked and launched by opponents to prevent Jim's head from getting back into the suit. This makes the whole situation tons more funnier to see a headless space suit get thrown around like a rag doll while Jim's head is either trying to get back into the suit or fighting as his head against the opponents from further launching the suit away from him.
Go to 4:15 to see his Head state or Suitless state, whatever you want to call it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APGK3SOyGhM
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Roy Level 7 CPU
1169 RoyMaster4
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:45 pm | |
| Perfect dash attack idea, I love it.
Cows with the down special... Maybe it just drops a cow where he's at when he uses the move. Kind of like Pikachu's thunder, except from the top of the screen and always has downward knockback.
I can imagine that Fsmash being more useful, but it doesn't make sense. A giant anvil smacks you in the face and you go upward? Then again, Jim in general doesn't make sense... |
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Smash King Smash King
8744 EJ88201
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:04 pm | |
| Doesn't Bowser's Down B send opponents flying upward as well? So in the sense of Smash Bros., wouldn't the idea of an anvil sending you flying upward make sense as well?
Or perhaps, have the anvil send you flying diagonally upward while Jim is launched the same direction. Logically, getting launched by a Seesaw would naturally send you flying diagonally upward. Though that logic barely applies in the Earthworm Jim games, the logic of a diagonally upward launch can be implemented into the Smash world.
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Roy Level 7 CPU
1169 RoyMaster4
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:48 pm | |
| Hm, I guess it's fine then (for the anvil to send them up). I don't think Jim should go at an angle with the seesaw, it might feel a bit awkward in-game. |
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Smash King Smash King
8744 EJ88201
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:10 pm | |
| You know, thinking about it now. Alot of Smash players usually rely on Smash attacks to get a quick kill in after racking damage. Seesaw kinda takes away that reliability due to its quirkiness. Maybe its better off as a Down B attack.
I just got another idea for the Seesaw. Lets say we have it as a Down B attack. Its kinda the same idea as before, but a bit more strategic. This move can be a multi-step attack similar to Villager's Tree. It works like this.
Press Down B. He sets up a Seesaw. It takes like a second or two. He simply throws it down in front of him. After its set, Jim can continue fighting freely similar to how Villager can run around freely after planting a seed. The Seesaw is now a diagonal mini-platform.
Press Down B again and Jim will pull out an anvil and launch it in front of him at short distance. If the anvil lands on the higher half of the Seesaw, it triggers the other side to quickly move up. If an opponent is standing on the opposite side of the anvil when it lands on the higher half of the Seesaw, the opponent is launched up and takes damage. If you drop the anvil on the lower half instead, the Seesaw will break. Keep in mind that the Seesaw can only be visible on the stage for a short period of time.
The bonus to this attack is that Jim can just use the Anvil freely without needing to throw it on the Seesaw. He can throw it forward to act as a heavy projectile similar to Villager's bowling ball. If you use the Anvil in-air, he will drop it under him to perform a meteor smash attack / projectile.
As for a new Side Smash, perhaps he can use that massive brick-like gun that explodes everything on the screen in his official game. Except, it will only explode what is in front of him at a distance.
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Roy Level 7 CPU
1169 RoyMaster4
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:16 pm | |
| That was the purpose of having the anvil send them sideways... but your idea seems better and suits Jim more. Same with the side smash.
Only thing I'd add to your idea is a 10% chance to throw a cow instead of an anvil, just to make it more Jim-like. |
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Smash King Smash King
8744 EJ88201
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:58 pm | |
| I like that idea with the cow.
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TaXMaN Level 6 CPU
689
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:33 am | |
| These ideas are GROOVY! The dash attack just works (yet another reference to EWJ2)! Okay, NOW I see how the seesaw can work for Down B. Just one thing to add, though. It would be pretty tricky to launch an opponent off the seesaw because you have to get him/her on the lower side AND toss the weight on the higher side to accomplish this.
So how about adding some glue (or some other sticky substance, like the character Slime) to the lower side of the seesaw. That way you can make an opponent stick to the seesaw for a few seconds (if they were to walk over or land on the lower side) and still have a chance to toss the weight on the higher side before the opponent escapes. If the trapped opponent escapes they'll jump upwards into the air (similar to the way how they break free from grabs).
The weight, as a projectile, should deal decent damage to opponents but its knockback should also be limited. However, if an opponent is launched via seesaw he/she won't take much damage but will be launched much further away. (which could KO opponents vertically at moderate to high percentages).
I also like the cow idea and the new side smash!
EDIT: Oh and the meteor smash idea with the weight sounds great! I should probably update my post with the new drastic changes in Jim's moveset. Unfortunately, I'm currently busy with exams so it will be postponed until Monday or Tuesday. |
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Roy Level 7 CPU
1169 RoyMaster4
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:44 am | |
| We could just make the seesaw launch extremely powerful (perhaps KOing at even something low like 20%), but your idea sounds more practical.
.... on second thought, the anvil causing a meteor smash sounds really overpowered. Mega Man's Hard Knuckle is only ok because it's small, has a short range, and only meteors far away from him so you have to space properly. |
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TaXMaN Level 6 CPU
689
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:09 pm | |
| - Roy wrote:
- .... on second thought, the anvil causing a meteor smash sounds really overpowered. Mega Man's Hard Knuckle is only ok because it's small, has a short range, and only meteors far away from him so you have to space properly.
Yeah, you're probably right. |
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Smash King Smash King
8744 EJ88201
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:48 am | |
| Earthworm Jim is one of those quirky characters you would want to see on your roster, thats for sure. lol.
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TaXMaN Level 6 CPU
689
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:44 am | |
| @SK: Couldn't agree more! Btw I've updated Jim's moveset description with the new changes (2 days later than I've promised but it's done). |
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Spoon300 Level 4 CPU
152
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:34 am | |
| I bet it won't be long until Earthworm Jim makes his appearance! |
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TaXMaN Level 6 CPU
689
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:16 am | |
| - Spoon300 wrote:
- I bet it won't be long until Earthworm Jim makes his appearance!
It would be awesome if he makes it in! I counted 8 people who supports Jim (excluding myself and assuming you're supporting him too) and no votes that's against him (atleast what I know of). I also noticed that this topic has more replies and views than other characters' (minus the AT and Pokeball threads). |
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Gab3 Level 1 CPU
6
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:18 pm | |
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GamingGryffindor Level 6 CPU
742
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:13 pm | |
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Azure_Raven Level 4 CPU
103
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:03 am | |
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Smash King Smash King
8744 EJ88201
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:23 am | |
| I see that Alucard is the one who made this thread. Is the moveset up-to-date on this thread for him? |
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TaXMaN Level 6 CPU
689
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:15 am | |
| Nope, it's my first version of Jim's moveset that replaced Alucard's post. Could one of the mods update the moveset to the newest version, please? Here's the latest version below: - A pic of Jim:
Allow me to give a FULL explanation on Earthworm Jim. First appearance: Earthworm Jim (1994) Last appearance: Earthworm Jim 3D (1999) Jim is a video game character known from the 90's. He appeared on several Nintendo systems including the SNES, Game Boy, Game Boy Advance and the Nintendo 64. Jim even appeared as a playable character in Clayfigher 63 1/3 for the N64. EWJ was portrayed as a clumsy but determined super hero. When evil was around, he was the one to save the day! From saving Princess Whats-Her-Name from Queen Slug-For-A-Butt to escorting Peter Puppy to his house. - The story behind Earthworm Jim:
Jim lived most of his life as an average earthworm. Heck, he didn't have a name back then! Day after day Jim had to take cover in the dirt because of incoming crows who wanted to make him their next meal. But one day it all changed! One morning Jim was chased by a crow just like most mornings. He dug into the ground just in time for the crow to catch nothing but air. Jim had another day to live and the crow had to eat dirt yet again. Jim poked his head out of the dirt to see if the coast was clear only to have a gigantic space suit fall on top of him. The suit made Jim mutate and grow at a fantastic rate. Jim was now able to perform human tasks like running and jumping. After discovering a raygun in his belt he used it against the same crow who wanted to eat him earlier, frying it to a crisp. That day the earthworm dubbed himself as Earthworm Jim.
- Earthworm Jim's moveset:
Most of Jim's moves come from Earthworm Jim, Earthworm Jim 2 and Clayfighter 63 1/3
SPECIALS:
Down - Jim sets up a seesaw by tossing it out in front of him. It takes a second or two to set up. The seesaw acts like a diagonal mini-platform (Slime is also left on the lower part of the seesaw. If an opponent walks over Slime, the opponent will stick to him trapping him/her for a few seconds). After the seesaw is set up Jim can move around freely. If Down B is pressed again while the seesaw is out, Jim will pull out an anvil and throw it a short distance before him. If the anvil lands on the higher half of the Seesaw, it lifts the other side upwards. If an opponent is standing on the opposite side of the anvil when it lands on the higher half of the Seesaw, the opponent is launched up and takes damage. If you drop the anvil on the lower half instead, the Seesaw will break. The seesaw is only visible on the stage for a short period of time. Jim can also use the anvil as a heavy projectile similar to the Villager's bowling ball, as long as the seesaw is out on the stage. As a bonus there's a 10% chance that Jim will throw a cow instead of a anvil.
Neutral - Raygun: This attack has two types of projectiles. The first being Jim's Plasma shot and the second being Jim's normal Raygun attack. Jim starts out with limited ammo for the Plasma shot. Once he runs out of ammo he will switch to his ordinary Raygun. (similar to the way how Robin switches between his Bronze sword and Levin sword).
*Plasma shot: Jim fires a fast projectile with his raygun that packs quite a punch. The only drawback of this attack is that it takes time to charge up the shot, leaving Jim vulnerable for a few seconds. Jim can aim in several directions while firing his weapon (just like in his games). If he’s on the ground he can only aim forward, diagonal upwards and above him. If he’s in the air he’ll also be able to aim downwards and diagonal downwards.
*Raygun: Jim pulls out his trademark raygun and fires. This attack deals rapid damage but doesn’t make an opponent flinch. It also lacks in range. Jim can also aim with this attack. (aiming works exactly like his Plasma shot).
Side – Pocket Rocket: Jim pulls out his rocket. This move has TWO uses. 1) If Jim is in the air he’ll board the rocket and move sideways. He can ram into enemies while on his rocket. This move is also great for horizontal recovery. 2) If Jim is on the ground he’ll attempt to board his rocket but will lose grip and fall on his face instead. The rocket will then speed off without him in a straight line until it exits the screen. The rocket deals average damage to enemies it makes contact with and knocks them upwards in a tumbling state. This move has a SLOW start-up but the rocket moves at a FAST pace once Jim lets go of it.
Up – Inflatable Head: Jim inflates his head by placing his thumb in his mouth and blowing into it. He then floats around. If attacked while floating, his head deflates and he spins in a 360 degree angle before plummeting down in a helpless state. The rotation acts as an unintentional offense for Jim to give him some sort of advantage since the recovery is rather slow. He doesn't do the rotation if he deflates on its own.
SMASHES:
Side – Jim pulls out his Barn Blaster that causes an explosion right in front of him at a distance.
Up – Jim gives a small jump and deals an uppercut in the air similar to Ryu.
Down – Jim attempts to pick up a cow but collapses under the weight, dealing damage to any nearby enemies.
TILTS:
Side – Jim whips forward with his head.
Up – Jim flexes his muscles and buffs up.
Down – Jim supports himself with his arms and kicks low with both feet.
AERIALS:
Neutral – Jim does a sex kick.
Forward – Jim rams his shoulder into the enemy. This attack has a short reach but does great damage and knockback if it connects (based on his attack from the Snot a problem mission in EWJ).
Back – Jim hits backwards with his head.
Up – Jim spins his head like a helicopter. This attack hits multiple times.
Down – Jim kicks downwards with both legs similar to Ganondorf’s dair. If timed right it can spike an enemy.
THROWS:
Grab - Jim uses Slime to pull enemies closer.
Pummel – Jim punches the enemy.
Forward throw – Jim launches his hand away from him tossing his opponent away along with it.
Back throw – Jim tosses his opponent behind him and headwhips him/her shortly after.
Down throw – Jim holds his opponent down and open fires his Raygun on him/her. The opponent is launched into the air afterwards.
Up throw – Jim tosses his opponent in the air.
OTHER:
Standard combo – Jim does a forward punch followed by a kick.
Dash attack - Jim uses his bouncing pad from "Puppy Love" (Earthworm Jim 2). He does a short dive forward holding the pad infront of him. If the opponent is hit by the front end of the bouncing pad, they are hit like any usual dash attack. However, because of the nature of the bouncing pad, the opponent takes less damage and more knockback due to the bounce. If Jim uses the Dash Attack on an opponent who is falling from above, the opponent is launched back up (great for quick follow-up attacks).
Taunt – Jim tosses his raygun in the air and lets it land in his belt while he shouts “GROOVY!”
Intro – Jim lands with his pocket rocket and puts it away.
Victory stance – Jim tosses his raygun in the air and blows his face pitch black when he catches it, while saying “You got stomped!”
FINAL SMASH:
Peter puppy (Jim’s best friend) appears right next to Jim. Jim whips Peter (which angers him) and makes a quick escape on his pocket rocket. Peter transforms into a giant hulk-like monster because of his anger and chases after Jim. The player gains control of Jim after he boards his rocket. Jim moves relative fast and can turn 360 degrees. The goal of this final smash is to ram into opponents while avoiding Peter. Peter MOVES faster than Jim but Jim can TURN faster than Peter. Jim delivers light damage when he rams into opponents. If an enemy is in Peter’s way he will be attacked by Peter himself (about 15-20 damage is dealt). A dust cloud will appear while Peter attacks the enemy. The enemy is then launched outside the dust cloud and Peter resumes his pursuit after Jim. If Peter catches up with Jim he will attack him instead. A dust cloud will appear and Jim will take damage while yelling “WHOA! Melly!” Jim will then be launched outside the dust cloud but will continue riding on his pocket rocket. This final smash ends after a set time or when Jim is KO’d. Peter returns to his normal form and disappears and Jim stores his pocket rocket away once the final smash ends.
So what do you guys think? |
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Smash King Smash King
8744 EJ88201
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:12 pm | |
| Updated the OP with TaxMan's post. |
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TaXMaN Level 6 CPU
689
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:57 pm | |
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Smash King Smash King
8744 EJ88201
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:22 pm | |
| I'm not not fond of the Down Smash attack. How does this attack do damage in front and behind him? |
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Moats Level 4 CPU
120
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:33 pm | |
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TaXMaN Level 6 CPU
689
| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:32 pm | |
| @SK: Basically, Jim holds the cow parallel to the floor. That way the cow's length can reach both in front and behind Jim. |
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| Subject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion | |
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