Phoenix Wright Discussion

Smash King wrote:

@Roy: I myself had played and finished all the main titles, otherwise I wouldn't be involved in the topic. lol. How you think I came to suggesting the metal detector in the first place?

I suppose that's true.

Smash King wrote:

I was thinking about the Steel Samurai Balloon at one point too. lol. Though from the way you described it, this could be a very vulnerable situation for Wright and sounds like a time killer for one who is trying to recover.

Maybe the inflation period can be really quick? It does seem kind of dangerous to be standing still for any length of time.

Smash King wrote:

Also, I would suggest replacing the tripping dash attack into something a bit different. Remember when Wright knocked down doors by charging towards it with his shoulder to break it down? Why not have him go into that animation, but end with a stumble to the floor in the end? This can give him a bit more range in his offense since he moves forward and falls slightly at a distance, rather than tripping at short distance like he currently does. And it still keeps the humor of him falling while trying to be tough.

This is a good idea. I'll edit it in.[/quote]
[/quote]

I thought of two additional evidence pieces:

Knife: Attacks come out a lot quicker since the knife is so light. It only deals slightly more damage than having no evidence, though. When thrown, the knife travels faster than any other piece of evidence.

Bottle of Sleeping Pills: When thrown, it will put an opponent to sleep if it connects.

Also, since the Steel Samurai Spear is no longer the u-tilt, can't it be worked into another part of Wright's moveset? Maybe it can be used in a throw or even a ledge attack.

The spear was only really in because it was Phoenix accidentally hitting his opponent, not using it as a real weapon. It could still fit in as evidence.

Speaking of evidence, my plan was to include one representing every case (from the main 5 AA games), using this list: http://www.court-records.net/Evidence.htm
For example, case 1-1 is represented by the Thinker statue/clock, and case 1-2 can be represented by a cellphone or a wire tap.
Otherwise, it feels biased towards certain case.



EDIT: Evidence List (In Progress):
- Fairly strong. Doesn't go far when thrown. When it connects with an opponent, it says an audio file "I think it's 1:00 pm".
- Not good for much of anything, might as well throw it at your opponent.
- It's a spear. Has the most range of his evidence while also being fairly strong.
- While it's a gun, Phoenix still swings it at his opponent like any other piece. Has a tendency to fire in mid-air while being thrown.
- Quite possibly the worst piece of evidence. It's probably better to use your hand than to use this thing. It's not even good thrown.
- Fairly useless, but it is a bit stronger than the cellphone. It also has a high priority when thrown, able to stop other projectiles.
- It's a knife. Does a decent amount of damage.
- Really heavy, causing attacks to be a lot stronger. Halves the frame rate when using. If thrown, doesn't go very far and causes a powerful meteor smash.
- A toy bear. Fairly standard as far as evidence goes. A piece of paper may fly out of it whenever it is used.
- It's a bottle of medicine, however it's been poisoned. Hitting an opponent will cause some poison damage after the fact.
- This vase is very fragile, and breaks after hitting something. It is pretty strong, however.
- This is worse than his normal badge! Just toss it.
- Fairly strong, but otherwise nothing special.
- It's a staff. Good range compared to most of his evidence, but doesn't hit very hard. It comes with a jewel in it, which gets flung when Phoenix uses it in an attack.
- Moderately useful for hitting your opponent with, otherwise fairly standard.
- Are you sure you want to pick that up? Ok I guess...
- This is actually a lighter, and goes off upon contact with an opponent, causing some extra burn damage.
- A generic coffee mug... Decent enough to get the job done.
- It looks like a stuffed animal, but it's actually a bomb! Hitting someone with it causes it to explode! Best to throw this one.
- This hairspray bottle tints an opponent white temporarily when you hit them with it. Otherwise, it's pretty generic.
(No Image) Video Tape - Makes a large sound as if it's hitting hard, but is actually fairly weak. At least it does something.
(No Image) Hope Capsule - A space probe, it's decently powerful. Nothing special otherwise.
(No Image) Katana - A sword! Now this is exactly what Phoenix needs! Too bad he uses it with the grace of a circus clown.
(No Image) Fish - It's a fish. What else needs to be said?
- Using this is basically the same thing as having no evidence. At least it's better than the paper badge, though, and it is funny seeing Phoenix throw a bullet at an opponent.
- Come on, Phoenix... you're using a photo as a weapon.

Roy wrote:

- Has a tendency to fire in mid-air while being thrown.

Can I just say I'm loving every single tiny reference you throw into this moveset?

Chaotic Chao wrote:

Can I just say I'm loving every single tiny reference you throw into this moveset?

Ha ha, I'm glad someone caught that. Thanks! If you have any suggestions for more fun references, feel free to chip in.

While a nice reference, I believe the number of evidence is excessive. Keep in mind that its not all necessary.

Two quick suggestions for the evidence;

-When throwing the spear, instead of flying straight or at a nice arc I think it would be more in-character for Phoenix's throw to send it spinning wildly in a circular motion, like a propeller; I can't really see Nick throwing a spear with perfect precision at a skillful angle, after all. (Secondary suggestion; Perhaps it decently damages shields as well? Don't want to make it overpowered though.)

-Perhaps the baseball glove, when thrown, has very high priority, allowing it to nullify projectiles. This both compliments Phoenix's defensive playstyle and more accurately represents the purpose of a baseball glove (which is to catch a thrown object out of the air).

Smash King wrote:

While a nice reference, I believe the number of evidence is excessive. Keep in mind that its not all necessary.

True... though I'd like to get one thing from each case for balance. I don't think it's a big deal if most evidence acts about the same (uses the same animation for fsmash/fair/uair/dair, just using the evidence as an item in hand). Maybe if I can avoid animation speed being changed...?

Shiruza wrote:

Two quick suggestions for the evidence;

-When throwing the spear, instead of flying straight or at a nice arc I think it would be more in-character for Phoenix's throw to send it spinning wildly in a circular motion, like a propeller; I can't really see Nick throwing a spear with perfect precision at a skillful angle, after all. (Secondary suggestion; Perhaps it decently damages shields as well? Don't want to make it overpowered though.)

-Perhaps the baseball glove, when thrown, has very high priority, allowing it to nullify projectiles. This both compliments Phoenix's defensive playstyle and more accurately represents the purpose of a baseball glove (which is to catch a thrown object out of the air).

I feel like Phoenix would throw all objects the same (spinning in midair). The spear would be no different.
I like the glove idea, though.

Roy wrote:

Smash King wrote:

While a nice reference, I believe the number of evidence is excessive. Keep in mind that its not all necessary.

True... though I'd like to get one thing from each case for balance. I don't think it's a big deal if most evidence acts about the same (uses the same animation for fsmash/fair/uair/dair, just using the evidence as an item in hand). Maybe if I can avoid animation speed being changed...?

Surely, some cases are generally more liked than others? Maybe some of the less liked ones can be removed. I remember watching a playthrough of the 2nd game, and many people in the comments were complaining about Turnabout Bigtop, saying it wasn't that good, etc.

StayPuft wrote:

Surely, some cases are generally more liked than others? Maybe some of the less liked ones can be removed. I remember watching a playthrough of the 2nd game, and many people in the comments were complaining about Turnabout Bigtop, saying it wasn't that good, etc.

Bigtop I can see, the evidence I picked for it wasn't actually evidence... I just liked the idea of a big heavy object being used (though maybe the Thinker Statue can fit that).

Can't think of any others, though... A lot of the items are from multiple cases or from significant cases, and the rest don't really make coding any more difficult. The only exceptions might be the Bust, Jewel, Lighter, and Hairspray Bottle.

Roy wrote:

The current Phoenix Wright moveset is terrible! His 'gimmick' relies on hitting opponents and most of his moveset is worthless. Time to make a turnabout!




Playstyle: Phoenix is a master of making mountains out of small mistakes. He patiently waits, studying the witness and going over his statements. Find a weak point, and attack! His attacks are fairly laggy, but they get the job done when they connect.
His main mechanic involves finding evidence - he can hold a surprisingly large number of evidence pieces. It's important to keep this up - without evidence, Phoenix doesn't have the ammunition to deal with his opponent.

A: File
Phoenix pulls out a file, and papers fly out forward. It has quite a bit of range due to the papers. More papers fly out if he has more evidence. The A button can be mashed to have Phoenix tap the file, causing more papers to fly out.

Dash Attack: Break In
Phoenix starts up a shoulder bash, doing some decent knockback. However, he ends up losing control and falls forward, slamming face first into the ground. It has a lot of endlag, but comes out relatively quickly compared to his other moves.

Forward Tilt: Sneeze
Phoenix leans back and sneezes! Surprisingly strong and works well for a KO move.

Up Tilt: Forensic Science
Phoenix sprays some luminol up in the air. It doesn't do any knockback, but has a momentary stun allowing him to get away or grab some evidence.

Down Tilt: Metal Detector
Phoenix sweeps a metal dector near the ground in front of him, knocking away enemies a short distance. If Phoenix looks for evidence within a few seconds after, the time it takes to find a piece will be halved.

Forward Smash: Present
Phoenix thrusts a piece of evidence forward. If he has no evidence, he instead presents his attorney badge, however it doesn't do much.

Up Smash: Mr. Hat
Phoenix pulls his coat back a bit, and a contraption appears out of it, causing a wooden puppet to sprout next to him from the ground up, knocking enemies skyward. It tips its hat, and then dissapears back into Phoenix's coat. I guess Trucy must have let him borrow it.

Down Smash: Desk Slam
A courtroom desk apears in front of Phoenix, and he slams down on it, knocking away nearby opponents. This attack becomes much stronger with more evidence held.

Neutral Air: Flail
Phoenix waves his arms and legs around, attempting to knock away nearby opponents. Can't really fault him for trying, and it does come out fast.

Forward Air: Evidence Swing
Phoenix takes out a piece of evidence and swings it in front of him. If he has no evidence, he kind of just... slaps?

Up Air: Evidence Overhead
Similar to his forward air, Phoenix takes out a piece of evidence and swings it above his head. If he has no evidence, he again kind of slaps the air above him.

Back Air: Bug Sweeper
Phoenix takes out a bug sweeper and waves it behind him, hoping to catch an unlucky foe. It doesn't have a good amount of knockback scaling, but it can be very damaging.

Down Air: Evidence Shove
Phoenix takes out a piece of evidence and shoves it below him. He almost loses control of it, but manages to grab it and put it away after, causing quite a bit of endlag. If he has no evidence, he instead pushes his hands downward and the endlag is much less.

Grab: Magatama
Phoenix puts forth the Magatama! The opponent is locked in chains!

Pummel: Psyche Lock
A psyche lock appears on the opponent and breaks. The damage increases significantly with evidence.

Throws: Generic throws, he points his Magatama in a certain direction and the opponent flies in that direction.

Neutral Special: Press
Phoenix points his finger out, and yells out HOLD IT! If an opponent is within range of the attack, they are pushed back a good distance. The lag of the animation has super armor - the push doubles if Phoenix is attacked during the startup. This is used to give Phoenix some space (and some more information).
If Phoenix has 5 or more pieces of evidence, he will instead shout OBJECTION! Instead of getting pushed back, they get stunned! Phoenix can now follow up with another attack. Pile on the pressure! The culprit is cornered!

Side Special: Fey Magic
Maya appears from behind Phoenix and steps forward, putting up a magical purple barrier. It blocks all projectiles, and she stays in this position for some time, allowing Phoenix to reposition or have some space to find evidence. She leaves after being hit with something physical, though. Occasionally, Pearl will replace Maya.

Up Special: Steel Samurai Balloon
Phoenix takes out an air tank and attempts to blow up an inflatable Steel Samurai. It starts and holds him hovering in place a bit, before the air tank ruptures, causing Phoenix to go flying up into the air before he lets go. The air tank continues to fly up, smashing into anyone unfortunate enough to be in the way.

Down Special: Evidence
If the button is held down, Phoenix leans down, and searches for some evidence of the opponent being involved in the case. If an item is nearby, he will take it and it is added to his 'evidence', which he can take out later. If there is no item nearby, after a second, he will find something random (from one of his cases) and add it to his bag. He can hold up to 10 of these, and it is noted by his damage meter.
If the button is tapped, Phoenix takes out the first evidence on his list and holds it. If it is an item, it acts like a normal item. If it is a random piece of evidence, he can throw it like a generic projectile. Using this again will switch which evidence he currently has out.
Evidence is used in some of his attacks (forward smash, forward air, up air, down air), and the properties of those attacks change with what evidence is being currently used. He rotates though it, so it is a good idea to pay attention which piece is next in line to use. Some evidence is rather useless for attacking, so they are good for taking out as a projectile.

Some evidence examples:
Cellphone - Not good for much of anything, might as well throw it at your opponent.
Grape Juice Bottle - Moderately useful for hitting your opponent with.
Bust - Really heavy, causing attacks to be a lot slower but stronger. If thrown, doesn't go very far and causes a powerful meteor smash.
Phony Phanty - It looks like a stuffed animal, but it's actually a bomb! Hitting someone with it causes it to explode! Best to throw this one.

Final Smash: Turnabout

It's time to pay for your crimes! TAKE THAT! If Phoenix connects with a close opponent, a cutscene plays with Phoenix presenting evidence, the opponent gasping, ending with a verdict. GUILTY! And the opponent is sent flying.

Taunt: Puts his hand behind his head, and laughs.

Taunt 2: Takes out a small piano and attempts to play it (does not go well).

Taunt 3: An 8-bit Steel Samurai theme starts to play. Phoenix takes out his cellphone and silences it.

Great post. Very detailed and well thought out. It includes things from the rest of the series, and would make Pheonix an actual character instead of the gimmick he is at the moment.

Roy wrote:

The current Phoenix Wright moveset is terrible! His 'gimmick' relies on hitting opponents and most of his moveset is worthless. Time to make a turnabout!




Playstyle: Phoenix is a master of making mountains out of small mistakes. He patiently waits, studying the witness and going over his statements. Find a weak point, and attack! His attacks are fairly laggy, but they get the job done when they connect.
His main mechanic involves finding evidence - he can hold a surprisingly large number of evidence pieces. It's important to keep this up - without evidence, Phoenix doesn't have the ammunition to deal with his opponent.

A: File
Phoenix pulls out a file, and papers fly out forward. It has quite a bit of range due to the papers. More papers fly out if he has more evidence. The A button can be mashed to have Phoenix tap the file, causing more papers to fly out.

Dash Attack: Break In
Phoenix starts up a shoulder bash, doing some decent knockback. However, he ends up losing control and falls forward, slamming face first into the ground. It has a lot of endlag, but comes out relatively quickly compared to his other moves.

Forward Tilt: Sneeze
Phoenix leans back and sneezes! Surprisingly strong and works well for a KO move.

Up Tilt: Forensic Science
Phoenix sprays some luminol up in the air. It doesn't do any knockback, but has a momentary stun allowing him to get away or grab some evidence.

Down Tilt: Metal Detector
Phoenix sweeps a metal dector near the ground in front of him, knocking away enemies a short distance. If Phoenix looks for evidence within a few seconds after, the time it takes to find a piece will be halved.

Forward Smash: Present
Phoenix thrusts a piece of evidence forward. If he has no evidence, he instead presents his attorney badge, however it doesn't do much.

Up Smash: Mr. Hat
Phoenix pulls his coat back a bit, and a contraption appears out of it, causing a wooden puppet to sprout next to him from the ground up, knocking enemies skyward. It tips its hat, and then dissapears back into Phoenix's coat. I guess Trucy must have let him borrow it.

Down Smash: Desk Slam
A courtroom desk apears in front of Phoenix, and he slams down on it, knocking away nearby opponents. This attack becomes much stronger with more evidence held.

Neutral Air: Flail
Phoenix waves his arms and legs around, attempting to knock away nearby opponents. Can't really fault him for trying, and it does come out fast.

Forward Air: Evidence Swing
Phoenix takes out a piece of evidence and swings it in front of him. If he has no evidence, he kind of just... slaps?

Up Air: Evidence Overhead
Similar to his forward air, Phoenix takes out a piece of evidence and swings it above his head. If he has no evidence, he again kind of slaps the air above him.

Back Air: Bug Sweeper
Phoenix takes out a bug sweeper and waves it behind him, hoping to catch an unlucky foe. It doesn't have a good amount of knockback scaling, but it can be very damaging.

Down Air: Evidence Shove
Phoenix takes out a piece of evidence and shoves it below him. He almost loses control of it, but manages to grab it and put it away after, causing quite a bit of endlag. If he has no evidence, he instead pushes his hands downward and the endlag is much less.

Grab: Magatama
Phoenix puts forth the Magatama! The opponent is locked in chains!

Pummel: Psyche Lock
A psyche lock appears on the opponent and breaks. The damage increases significantly with evidence.

Throws: Generic throws, he points his Magatama in a certain direction and the opponent flies in that direction.

Neutral Special: Press
Phoenix points his finger out, and yells out HOLD IT! If an opponent is within range of the attack, they are pushed back a good distance. The lag of the animation has super armor - the push doubles if Phoenix is attacked during the startup. This is used to give Phoenix some space (and some more information).
If Phoenix has 5 or more pieces of evidence, he will instead shout OBJECTION! Instead of getting pushed back, they get stunned! Phoenix can now follow up with another attack. Pile on the pressure! The culprit is cornered!

Side Special: Fey Magic
Maya appears from behind Phoenix and steps forward, putting up a magical purple barrier. It blocks all projectiles, and she stays in this position for some time, allowing Phoenix to reposition or have some space to find evidence. She leaves after being hit with something physical, though. Occasionally, Pearl will replace Maya.

Up Special: Steel Samurai Balloon
Phoenix takes out an air tank and attempts to blow up an inflatable Steel Samurai. It starts and holds him hovering in place a bit, before the air tank ruptures, causing Phoenix to go flying up into the air before he lets go. The air tank continues to fly up, smashing into anyone unfortunate enough to be in the way.

Down Special: Evidence
If the button is held down, Phoenix leans down, and searches for some evidence of the opponent being involved in the case. If an item is nearby, he will take it and it is added to his 'evidence', which he can take out later. If there is no item nearby, after a second, he will find something random (from one of his cases) and add it to his bag. He can hold up to 10 of these, and it is noted by his damage meter.
If the button is tapped, Phoenix takes out the first evidence on his list and holds it. If it is an item, it acts like a normal item. If it is a random piece of evidence, he can throw it like a generic projectile. Using this again will switch which evidence he currently has out.
Evidence is used in some of his attacks (forward smash, forward air, up air, down air), and the properties of those attacks change with what evidence is being currently used. He rotates though it, so it is a good idea to pay attention which piece is next in line to use. Some evidence is rather useless for attacking, so they are good for taking out as a projectile.

Some evidence examples:
Cellphone - Not good for much of anything, might as well throw it at your opponent.
Grape Juice Bottle - Moderately useful for hitting your opponent with.
Bust - Really heavy, causing attacks to be a lot slower but stronger. If thrown, doesn't go very far and causes a powerful meteor smash.
Phony Phanty - It looks like a stuffed animal, but it's actually a bomb! Hitting someone with it causes it to explode! Best to throw this one.

Final Smash: Turnabout

It's time to pay for your crimes! TAKE THAT! If Phoenix connects with a close opponent, a cutscene plays with Phoenix presenting evidence, the opponent gasping, ending with a verdict. GUILTY! And the opponent is sent flying.

Taunt: Puts his hand behind his head, and laughs.

Taunt 2: Takes out a small piano and attempts to play it (does not go well).

Taunt 3: An 8-bit Steel Samurai theme starts to play. Phoenix takes out his cellphone and silences it.

I love this moveset, but you didn't have to deem the current one as terrible, that's a bit rude and disrespectful.

I recently watched the v0.9.1 trailer. Is Wright getting Ace Attorney-esque hitsounds for his Neutral, Side and Up specials? Or, well, in general?

I also support roy's moveset, but I would also like to add some sugestion myself

1. he's sneeze side attack need to change, it is often used by mistake and can be really punishing... for the player using it! also, its extream push back is pretty random and hard to predict. my sugestion, if we really want to keep the sneeze, would be his college phoenix sneeze. his mask cold mask would appear and would be the actual source of the hit, it would be a quick, maybe chainable attack that hit right after pressing the button, instead of one second after XP.

2. his final smash is a bit generic and completly riped of from the marvel combat game, I have 2 sugestion to replace it:
the first one would be hard to code, but would be the new dual destiny "thinking" mechanic where you figure out somthing that change the whole case. some flavor text and funny reference could be inserted like; "who should I make testify next? 1. the parrot, 2. the orca 3. the defendant Maya (again).
the second one would be that he that he lock an enemie, (like the current smash) and either trap im in place (like link) or place im at the center of the stage (like robin or ike final smah, but in the middle.) then, a black lock appear, and phoenix proceed to break it. (normally, a black lock must be broken with care, as it can cause psychological damage, but here, its the intended effect.)

3. for the up special, its a nice idea! my sugestion on how it would work: on ground, phoenix pump the balloon, the more he pump it ( the more your press up b) the better the recoverie when you finely use it in the air. the player must watch out as pumping the balloon make's him vunerable. also, if you pump it too much, the balloon blow up and those some damage around him, giving him a way to sacrefice his built up to push back his enemies, and prevent the player from simply spaming the up b. the move woulb be cancel-able.

4. for the too-much evidence problem, maybe choose only one memorable evidence per game? the randomness and diversity of the items could really benefit the character. maybe you could add one item from time to time in new updates. if he is missing evidence to perform an attack, he should always try to use his attorney badge

5. for the maya cameo, she could instead be in his victory animation (and/or in some taunt), throwing conffeties over his head.

I like to play around with Nick every now and then. I just wish he didn't look like he hasn't been eating his vegetables in the CSS.

Well, I'm a new wright player. And I would really love some tips for him!
Also some tips for fights against really good characters, like Falco or Marth!
I'm also new on the forums(new like,haven't used in around a year). And would love to make new friends!

Objection!_mania wrote:

Well, I'm a new wright player. And I would really love some tips for him!
Also some tips for fights against really good characters, like Falco or Marth!

I'd suggest joining the SSBC Discord, since the forums are rarely used, but there are a decent number of people on the discord to help you out. One of the guys there took 2nd with PW in the most recent tournament, so he could probably help you a lot. Here is a link to the discord: discord.gg/j6jz4Mt

Also as an aside Falco kinda sucks in this game. Marth is super good though.