Ganon (Legend of Zelda) Discussion

"Ganon... this beast was once of the Gerudo... Once human. He was called Ganondorf! King of Darkness, ancient demon reborn."
- Princess Zelda



Ganon is the primary antagonist of the Legend of Zelda series, having the most appearances aside from Link and Zelda. Typically seen as a blue-skinned bipedal boar, Ganon is generally the holder of the Triforce of Power and aims to obtain the completed Triforce and rule over Hyrule. In multiple instances, he has succeeded, only to be later thwarted by Link.

As Ganon is one of the most significant characters in the Zelda series (second only to Link and Zelda), I feel as though he is worthy of a spot.

What can Ganon bring to Crusade?
- He would be the largest and heaviest character, by far.
- Wields a trident in battle, as well as having dark magic.
- Doesn't take up a slot on the selection screen (Ganondorf alt).

His playstyle is on the extreme end of the spectrum - he doesn't like to move, but he has the range to make sure he doesn't have to move much. His mobility is fairly bad (outside of up special), but his weight is unmatched, and his strength is impressive.


A small taste of his moveset:

Neutral Special: Ball of Light
The trademark attack of Ganondorf, Ganon creates an energy ball with his trident and shoots it forward. It can be reflected with any attack, gaining power with each reflection.

Side Speical: Flaming Keese
Ganon puts out his hand, and 3 flaming keese fly out from him. They fly out in a set pattern - if used on the ground, there will be one at 0, 15, and 30 degree angles. If used in the air, it will instead be at -15, 0, and 15 degrees. The keese leave a trail of fire behind them for a second, so it's not as easy to dodge.

Up Special: Shadow Warp
Ganon's trademark move in all of his appearances. Ganon dissapears, before reappearing a good distance away. What makes this move unique, however, is that his trident is still visable and spinning during the slow travel time - that is, it hits while Ganon is unable to be hit! This makes it extremely difficult to stop him from recovering.

Down Special: Moon Portal
Ganon slams his trident to the ground, causing a ripple of white energy to emanate from him. If an opponent is caught by it, they will be sucked into the ground and take rapid hits from an unseen source before being ejected.
This move is taken from his Four Swords Adventures appearance, where he can force Link into the Dark World for a short period of time.

Neutral Combo: Jab, Jab
Ganon's trident floats next to him while he unloads a couple of punches.

Side Tilt: Weapon Break
Ganon swings his trident in front of him. This hits with such force that, if an opponent is hit while holding an item, said item is knocked out of his/her hand.

Up Tilt: Trident Swing
Ganon swings his trident above his head. Has a lot of range and is one of his faster attacks, but isn't very strong.

Down Tilt: Dark Pillar
Ganon slams his trident into the ground, causing an eruption of dark flame in front of him. It is slow to come out, but has a good amount of upward knockback.

Dash Attack: Trident Stab
Ganon thrusts his trident forward in a stab. Does a moderate amount of knockback and damage.

Forward Smash: Trident Boomerang
Ganon spins his trident and sends it forward a short distance. While powerful, if dodged, Ganon is an easy target.

Up Smash: Electric Bolt
Ganon thrusts his trident upward. Shortly after, a burst of electricity appears from the trident in a ball around it. The electric attack is very powerful, but hitting with the trident stab will push the opponent too far away to get hit by it.

Down Smash: Fire Eruption
A fire appears behind Ganon, which circles around him. Is significantly strong.

Neutral Aerial: Trident Spin
Ganon spins his trident around. Does rapid hits before a powerful ejection. Functions similarly to Palutena's neutral aerial.

Forward Aerial: Yet Another Trident Swing
Ganon swings his trident in front of him.

Up Aerial: Yet Another Trident Stab
Ganon thrusts his trident upward in a stabbing motion.

Backward Aerial: Tail Club
Ganon's tail lights up behind him and he swings it up and down. While it doesn't do much damage, it has a large amount of knockback.

Down Aerial: Belly Flop
Ganon stretches his arms outward and drops towards the ground, crushing anyone who happens to be in the way. Has a lot of endlag as he gets back up.

Grab: Skewer
Ganon swings his trident in front of him, attempting to stick an opponent on his trident. Unlike other grabs, getting hit by this actually applies some damage!

Pummel: Zap!
Ganon applies some electricity into his trident, electrocuting the helpless victim.

Forward Throw: Fling
Ganon swings his trident forward, with the opponent flying off the trident.

Backward Throw: Reverse Fling
Pretty much identical to his forward throw. Ganon spins around and the opponent flies off his trident.

Up Throw: Tusk Toss
Ganon uses his tusks to spike into the opponent, lifting them upward.

Down Throw: Ground Stab
Ganon stabs his trident into the ground, leaving the opponent helpless there.

Final Smash: Lights Out
Ganon makes the entire stage go dark except for the players, while Ganon dissapears. His trident is now controllable and leaves a trail of flames, spinning as it moves around the stage.
This lasts a set amount of time, and Ganon appears where he first used the final smash.



Supporters: 10
Roy
Spoon300
Dr. CanadianBacon
Nights Owl
Naughty Ottsel
Alucard
OmegaSteve777
Chaotic Chao
Braystar
VultureDuck

Yeah, We should Implement him in Crusade, Now if you excuse me...

I really like the Side and Up special. I'm on the fence of supporting but I'm not really sure we need another "Ganon".

Huh. It's pretty strange that I never actually considered this as a character. One might say this would a good opportunity to pay homage to older Zelda titles. If this thread expands any further, I may show support.

This should be his Jab

I support this hog. He's a neat piece of pork. So I'll support him.

Actually though, I agree with VultureDuck, that needs to be his jab.

same.

also, I think I found the other Half of Composite Giga Bowser!

Slissith wrote:

I really like the Side and Up special. I'm on the fence of supporting but I'm not really sure we need another "Ganon".

Well... we can technically make him an alt. Ganon and Ganondorf are practically the same character, after all.

Added a few more moves (including that jab...).

For a completely seperate character for Ganondorf (much like Weegee), I'd totally be down for him. But my question is... what about the weight thing? Ganondorf is already a heavy and slow character, wouldn't his Ganon form be even heavier... and slower?

... Actually now that I think about it... Ganondorf is in crusade, right? Is he super slow and rather heavy still? If not, I guess Ganon could match his SSB4/Brawl speed and weight then?

Edit: I can't read worth a shart.

Edit 2: I mention the speed because Ganondorf in B/SS4 speed is already incredibly slow. Would he move like... hardly at all, or what?

I mean, I know Bigger doesn't mean Slower. But still. >_>

I don't know if we plan to make Toon Link an alt to Link, or even if he's already been made an alt in 0.9, but the status of Ganon as a Ganondorf alt would depend on that. Both pairs are incarnations of the same spirit, but in a different body and different timeline.

Nights is right, Ganondorf is already pretty slow, also in Crusade. But, I'm sure an even slower one would be fine. Would be extremely clunky to play and have ridiculously polarised matchups, but it's still doable.

Dry wrote:

I don't know if we plan to make Toon Link an alt to Link, or even if he's already been made an alt in 0.9, but the status of Ganon as a Ganondorf alt would depend on that. Both pairs are incarnations of the same spirit, but in a different body and different timeline.

I don't think Toon Link is ever going to be an alt to Link... but at least Ganon has appeared in the same game as Ganondorf (Ocarina, Twilight Princess).

There's also the canonical reason that there has only ever been 2 Ganons - every Ganon has been revived with one exception (that being 4 Sword Adventures). Ganon was killed in Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Link to the Past, sealed in Ocarina of Time, revived in Oracles and the original...

Dry wrote:

I don't know if we plan to make Toon Link an alt to Link, or even if he's already been made an alt in 0.9

I hope not. I think they are pretty distinct from each other. Although it does free up space on the select screen.

Dry wrote:

Nights is right, Ganondorf is already pretty slow, also in Crusade. But, I'm sure an even slower one would be fine. Would be extremely clunky to play and have ridiculously polarised matchups, but it's still doable.

Like Petey in terms of running speed except maybe slightly slower? A huge target? I think we've proved (through Petey and Ridley) that really big character do work, so I think this is not a big concern.

Definitely support. Personally, I was a little disappointed Ganondorf's Final Smash didn't let you actually walk around as Ganon, and this would more than make up for that. I also like the idea of having it be a Ganon more representing classic, 2D Zelda.

Sounds awesome he have my support as an alt.

support

I don't care this is an old thread. I want Ganon.

If you want Ganon, then just perform a Final Smash as Ganondorf.

Actually this is a great moveset, I'm surprised that you were able to pull it off!

Shoot, I forgot, I totally support this idea.
Give me this interesting big beast man classic over his less interesting human counterpart any day.

Despite the moveset, I'm not supporting simply because of the redundancy. Ganondorf is exactly the same character, and his Ganon form is already his Final Smash. It'd be like having Toon Link in Link's Final Smash, and then also having Toon Link; it's redundant and confusing.

If we're getting rid of the Four Swords Links in Toon Link's FS, simply due to recolours... I don't see why we should add the exact same character twice, when the alternate form is already his Final Smash.

Easy solution, just change Dorf's final smash to something else. Having Ganon as a playable alt character would obviously be much better than having him seldom appear as Dorf's final smash.

Chaotic Chao wrote:

Easy solution, just change Dorf's final smash to something else. Having Ganon as a playable alt character would obviously be much better than having him seldom appear as Dorf's final smash.

What could it possibly be? Personally I like his current implementation.

Let me tell you right here; As a fan of both Ganondorf and Ganon, for both Smash and the Legend of Zelda franchise, you cannot convince me to support this idea. It just feels very redundant to me no matter how you change it.

Regardless, I wish the best of luck to you. This isn't my game, it's everyone's game.

Link has Toon Link

Zelda has Sheik

Ganondorf shall remain in a loner in Shiruza's world

Poor Dorf

OmegaSteve777 wrote:

Link has Toon Link

Zelda has Sheik

Ganondorf shall remain in a loner in Shiruza's world

Poor Dorf

Solodorf accepts no substitutes.

Shiruza wrote:

What could it possibly be? Personally I like his current implementation.

Maybe Ganondorf could encase an opponent in a crystal (referencing LttP and OoT)? Or he could summon a black hand from the ground to swing around (focus spirit move from Hyrule Warriors). There are options, is all I'm saying.

Shiruza wrote:

Despite the moveset, I'm not supporting simply because of the redundancy. Ganondorf is exactly the same character, and his Ganon form is already his Final Smash. It'd be like having Toon Link in Link's Final Smash, and then also having Toon Link; it's redundant and confusing.

*looks at Mega Man's Sm4sh Final Smash* *looks longingly at Mega Man Volnutt*

Except Toon Link and Link are two different characters, and are very different visually and in their movesets. Ganon may just be Ganondorf's ultimate form, but the classic version is practically a separate entity, with his vastly different appearance, unique abilities, and undeniable iconic-ness. OoT Ganon may technically be the same being as ALttP Ganon, but they look and behave very differently, and are both icons of their respective games.

Did I support this? If not, I support this.

Roy wrote:

Shiruza wrote:

What could it possibly be? Personally I like his current implementation.

Maybe Ganondorf could encase an opponent in a crystal (referencing LttP and OoT)? Or he could summon a black hand from the ground to swing around (focus spirit move from Hyrule Warriors). There are options, is all I'm saying.

The black hand is literally a darkness form of Ganon. It is shaped exactly like Ganon.

If it's going to be anything, it could be the flying ground pound, something sorely missing from his moveset. That being said... I really like his Final Smash as-is. It makes it feel like Ganondorf as his whole self; he has all of his abilities at his disposal. I mean Ganondorf can change into Ganon at will; It would feel incredibly awkward if you couldn't do that mid-combat, like a Mega Man who could never change weapons or a Samus that couldn't change beams (wink-wink nudge-nudge). I don't really know; I just don't want Ganondorf's Final Smash changed, it really ties his whole arsenal together into one package.

What's the problem with a little redundancy, then? If I loved Ganondorf as much as you do (and I DO love Ganon as much as you do, believe me), then I'd definitely want Ganon to be fully playable alongside his human form. Personally I don't think you should let a small bit of repetition get in the way of something that'd be obviously cool.

Hey, maybe Ganon's final smash can be him turning into Ganondorf and using his flying ground pound? Then everyone wins! Eh? Eh?

Chaotic Chao wrote:

What's the problem with a little redundancy, then? If I loved Ganondorf as much as you do (and I DO love Ganon as much as you do, believe me), then I'd definitely want Ganon to be fully playable alongside his human form. Personally I don't think you should let a small bit of repetition get in the way of something that'd be obviously cool.

Hey, maybe Ganon's final smash can be him turning into Ganondorf and using his flying ground pound? Then everyone wins! Eh? Eh?

Eh... I suppose you're right on that. At least on the redundancy part, the Final Smash idea was so bad I'm glad you were joking. xD

Even though this goes against what I had said before, I have a new stance on the matter.

I'll support Ganon as an alt for Ganondorf... But only if Ganondorf remains untouched by the addition, Final Smash and all. And only if the playable Ganon resembles his incarnation in ALttP, and not of his rendition in OoT.

Now if only could have Ganondorf's Ground Pound as his aerial D-Spec... >u>

Honestly I feel like Ganondorf's final smash could be cooler actually. Like, he'd still turn into Ganon, but he'd do something more...interesting than swing one arm.
I really do think though that if Ganondorf remains untouched, Ganon's final smash should involve him going Ganondorf somehow to even things out.

Dry wrote:

I don't know if we plan to make Toon Link an alt to Link, or even if he's already been made an alt in 0.9, but the status of Ganon as a Ganondorf alt would depend on that. Both pairs are incarnations of the same spirit, but in a different body and different timeline.

Nights is right, Ganondorf is already pretty slow, also in Crusade. But, I'm sure an even slower one would be fine. Would be extremely clunky to play and have ridiculously polarised matchups, but it's still doable.

I'm sorry for double posting, but I'd like to mention something after reading this. I'm fairly certain that it's said that the Link in Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass is not a direct descendant from the Hero of Time like the Hero of Twilight is, is that not true?


@Chaotic Chao: That wouldn't really make sense though. Ganon is the ultimate form of Ganondorf, why would he evolve down a step for his Final Smash? It's like if Frieza was in this game and his Final Smash was to beat you up in his first form, it doesn't really make sense.