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Jack Frost for Crusade?
Yes
Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Bar_left69%Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Bar_right
 69% [ 20 ]
No
Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Bar_left31%Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Bar_right
 31% [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 29
 

AuthorMessage
LightZX
Level 5 CPU
LightZX

  380

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 4:46 pm

So, here I am being bored during my weekend, I thought I might as well do this. Jack Frost from the Shin Megami Tensei is ususally a fairy that has a playful behavior. Here's what his possible moves could be.
Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Tumblr_inline_mnadvwnQzT1qz4rgp

Jack Frost is the mascot of Atlus, and appears in many(probably all) of the Megami Tensei games. He , based on his name, uses ice powers, but there are other alterations of him. Such as Pyro Jack, which is like a floating pumpkin head with a cape and uses fire. There is also Black Frost, Frost Ace (probably my personal favorite) and King Frost.

Jack Frost:
I Made this because I do think Atlus deserves one rep for publishing really good games for Nintendo consoles. And who would better do represent Atlus then their mascot. Well there might, but I can't think of anyone right now.


Last edited by LightZX on Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GigaPichu

GigaPichu

  3392

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptyMon Jul 15, 2013 7:52 am

Shin Megami Tensei is crossing over with Fire Emblem.

Just for that, I think it deserves a rep.
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GamingGryffindor
Level 6 CPU
GamingGryffindor

  742

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptyMon Jul 15, 2013 8:44 am

Mario wrote:
Not in my house.
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LightZX
Level 5 CPU
LightZX

  380

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptyMon Jul 15, 2013 9:24 am

Why not Axel?
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GoldenYuiitusin
Level 5 CPU
GoldenYuiitusin

  340

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptyMon Jul 15, 2013 9:44 am

I have little to no knowledge about Shin Megami Tensei, but this particular character is brought up a lot as an idea for Smash.
I'm surprised that people are ok with this mascot and not Chocobo for Final Fantasy.


Though since I have little to no knowledge of the series, I refrain from voting.
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GigaPichu

GigaPichu

  3392

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptyMon Jul 15, 2013 10:52 am

When it comes to Megami Tensei i'd rather have this guy: http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Demi-fiend

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LightZX
Level 5 CPU
LightZX

  380

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptyMon Jul 15, 2013 11:23 am

I don't know giga, he's only been on Play Station and PC. Even though he will be in SMTXFE, he doesn't have his game on nintendo console.
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Guest
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PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptyMon Jul 15, 2013 11:38 am

LightZX wrote:
Why not Axel?

Because he's not Sora, obvs. Lil Dolan
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Smash King
Smash King
Smash King

  8744
  EJ88201

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptyTue Jul 16, 2013 5:23 pm

For the purpose of giving Atlus a rep, I think Jack Frost makes the most sense being the company mascot. So yes.
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Smash King
Smash King
Smash King

  8744
  EJ88201

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptyWed Jul 17, 2013 4:53 pm

Anyone else want to add a vote?
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Keven
Level 5 CPU
Keven

  468

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptyThu Jul 18, 2013 5:04 pm

I vote yes
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Yeti
Level 6 CPU
Yeti

  647

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptyThu Jul 18, 2013 5:08 pm

I vote no, but the character is pretty cool.
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Johnny64

Johnny64

  Snake
  1272

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptyThu Jul 18, 2013 5:24 pm

Changing my vote to yes, Jack DOES deserves a chance
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C_Mill24
Level 9 CPU
C_Mill24

  2072
  C-Mill24

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptyThu Jul 18, 2013 5:38 pm

Pass.
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Ness_64
Level 4 CPU
Ness_64

  185

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 10:17 pm

I'd prefer a slight change in his playstyle to reflect more the playstyle in a SMT game (support moves are as necessary as offensive ones to victory in these games). In this case, just an extra support move or two and change how to use some moves, I think. Ice Break is a good example lacking in the suggested moveset.
Voted yes though, Jack Frost is the perfect Atlus rep for Crusade Smile
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LightZX
Level 5 CPU
LightZX

  380

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptySat Jul 20, 2013 9:38 am

Jack Frost:
Got rid of Sukukaja because he doesn't really need a speed boost. Added Ice Break grabs. Changed Ice breath into combo. Changed Ice Dance into dash attack. Changed all Smashes a bit. Does this look better Ness?
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Ness_64
Level 4 CPU
Ness_64

  185

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptySat Jul 20, 2013 8:09 pm

The U-Special seems a bit forced, but I don't have any better or more unique ideas for it, so why not? And he doesn't really need to turn into the other "Jacks" to do some of the attacks - except for the Black Frost one, I think.

About the other attacks, here goes some ideas (you can use them into the moveset if you want, of course):
Spoiler:
Plus, what about its aerial moves? Your moveset is good though Smile
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LightZX
Level 5 CPU
LightZX

  380

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptySat Jul 20, 2013 8:21 pm

Sonic Punch taking damage? I don't know, that only happens in the persona games and most of the time it doesn't happen. I agree with the dream fist move forward thing. What I was trying to go for is having all the attacks based on his Natural skills, and Mabufula isn't in his natural skills except for one game. I don't know about turning Mind Charge into something that's only for NSpecial. Bufu/Bufudyne is alright for Nspecial but again Bufudyne isn't in his natural skills except in one game. That's kinda why I've been turning him into other Jacks so that I have more range in attacks. But uh I guess I'll work on my moveset later.
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Ness_64
Level 4 CPU
Ness_64

  185

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptySat Jul 20, 2013 9:37 pm

Mind Charge isn't only for NSpecial. It works with any magic attack. I mentioned that, just confirming.

Sonic Punch should be much stronger in full charge to compensate for that self-damage, and even then it's not too much (around 5-10%).
And I read that in the main games physical skills cost HP too... (Yeah, I didn't play the main games, but I read a lot about them and watched some videos... :/)
TV Tropes wrote:
Cast from Hit Points: Physical attacks cost HP to use, except in Strange Journey.

And even limiting him to his natural abilities, limiting with only the main series isn't necessary, since the whole franchise has a few subseries where he's playable too, and these offer a bit more to his attacks.
I even thought about suggesting the inclusion of Ziodyne and Zandyne (an electric and a 'wind' attack, respectively) in his moveset after watching his Digital Devil Saga 2 fight, but I thought it was stretching a bit too much tbh.
And in the recent main series SMT IV, apparently he can learn Hama(instant-death light-based) naturally too...
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LightZX
Level 5 CPU
LightZX

  380

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptySat Jul 20, 2013 10:11 pm

Jack Frost:

Okay I have some compromises in my moveset now. When he does those transformations in smashes he takes 5% damage since well he's not supposed to turn into those forms. That way I can at least have the super armor on fully charged FSmash that I wanted. FS Still undecided if I want King Frost FS that's similar to yours or similar to Oilmar FS. Mind Charge I still don't know what do with it. If we have charging for Mind Charge in order so that next bufu is automatically Bufudyne, what's the point when the charge time should be similar. Aerials are kinda hard to make "unique" other then generic punches and stuff. So I can't really think of anything right now. Also I have been playing too much strange journey, just checked devil survivor and they do the hp for physical thing too.
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Ness_64
Level 4 CPU
Ness_64

  185

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptySat Jul 20, 2013 11:02 pm

The point in using Mind Charge is to use Bufudyne earlier. Or you can save this for the right time and use Ice Boost, to make it even stronger. OK, you could then remove the chargeable part of the NSpecial entirely, so the DSpecial is an actual charge for that while the normal NSpecial is still an useful ice projectile.

And even then, again, Mind Charge doesn't work ONLY for that move. Any move where he uses a magic attack (that would be USmash, DSmash and maybe DAir and - if you want to stretch it - Pyro Jack's USpecial attack) cancels the buff in trade for a 50% bonus.
And I thought about Hama: why not as a B-Aerial or something? It could do low damage, slow and be hard to hit - maybe small shards of light forming a rune around the opponent and homing on him/her when it connects - but great knockback.

You should really save King Frost for a stronger move, since it's much more powerful compared to Jack Frost.

BTW, I'm a bit curious. Do you know which other attacks Jack Frost can have? I mean ones obtainable through fusion or certain special conditions. There's not much info about them, you know... :/
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LightZX
Level 5 CPU
LightZX

  380

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptySun Jul 21, 2013 9:22 am

So we are both okay on the Jack transforming to other frosts?
Alright so remove charge of nspecial to make mind charge useful. That makes more sense. Maybe we can make Mind Charge effect other moves like goku d special.
I played devil survivor 2 and strange journey, so I can check on skills of King frost, Frost Ace, Black Frost and Pyro Jack. Technically in strange journey, you can give Jack Frost ANY skill due to sources that give three skills.
Would it be better if B Air was slow falling projectile that makes the opponent not be able to move or a fast shooting projectile that has properties of yours.
Alright so replace King Frost In Up smash, should I replace him with Frost Ace and give him super armor? or Black Frost and no super armor.

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Smash King
Smash King
Smash King

  8744
  EJ88201

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptySun Jul 21, 2013 12:23 pm

Alright, since there hasn't been a change in votes or arguments for or against this character, Jack Frost wins this poll and is now eligible for Character Suggestion Poll.

Though since there is an active discussion for his move set, I'll leave this thread open. If LightZX dont mind, would it be ok if I make this into a campaign thread instead?
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LightZX
Level 5 CPU
LightZX

  380

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptySun Jul 21, 2013 12:49 pm

Uh sure sk, go ahead.
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Smash King
Smash King
Smash King

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Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptySun Jul 21, 2013 1:35 pm

Kk. moved
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Ness_64
Level 4 CPU
Ness_64

  185

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptySun Jul 21, 2013 3:12 pm

Here we go again... xD:
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GamingGryffindor
Level 6 CPU
GamingGryffindor

  742

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptySun Jul 21, 2013 3:23 pm

Sorry Light I didn't realize you had responded.

I just don't think he works, and I don't really like his series.
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LightZX
Level 5 CPU
LightZX

  380

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptySun Jul 21, 2013 3:56 pm

Sounds good Ness. Now thinking about it, it would be cool if Upsmash was Hama, and then fully charged into Mudo. But doesn't really matter.
Jack Frost:
I changed the D Smash slightly Ness because I don't really know what you mean Diagonally. All that is left is U Air and F Air.
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Ness_64
Level 4 CPU
Ness_64

  185

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptySun Jul 21, 2013 4:10 pm

Well, in that idea, Jack is supposed to create a short ice wave, while Pyro Jack, above him, gives him some cover by throwing flames near him (so, diagonally downward, both sides of JF). While the flames stay near him to protect him (defensive), the ice wave travels a bit along the ground (offensive).

But your idea is good too. They could alternate sides quickly to send fire AND ice to both sides though, since the attack isn't supposed to be too powerful. It's Maragion and Mabufula, basically the same as a Fira and a Blizzara in a FF game, so...

A Hama attack as an Usmash seems a good idea too. Then, almost the same as the Mudo one, but Light-based, doing more damage and less knockback instead. What do you think?
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LightZX
Level 5 CPU
LightZX

  380

Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales)   Jack Frost (no not the one in fairy tales) EmptyMon Jul 22, 2013 6:41 pm

Jack Frost:
Alright made the changes and added U Air, just need F Air.
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