Orcane (Rivals of Aether) discussion

Introduction
Rivals of Aether is a Smash-inspired indie game currently available on Steam early access and is soon to be released on Xbox one. It focuses on "Rivals" from 4 different elements (Fire, Water, Earth and Wind) and is a very fast-paced game made for competitive play. It currently features 6 characters, with 2 more yet to be released. That gives us 8-ish characters to choose from, with 2 characters from each element. And out of all of them, I decided to go with Orcane!

Why Rivals of Aether?
Like I said earlier, Rivals of Aether is a Smash-inspired game designed around being competitive like Melee. Kind of like Crusade, huh? It's also one of the first games that plays very similarly to Smash that has original characters, rather than Nintendo/Playstation/Anime heroes. Because of this, we wouldn't have to come up with many new moves or sprites either; Tilts, Specials, Smashes and Aerials are all already in the game!

Why Orcane?
When choosing which Rival to add in Crusade, I analyzed all characters carefully to see who would fit the best. First of all, I knocked out the four "secret characters" aka Forsburn, Maypul, Absa and the hidden one. The reason for this is because they aren't part of the main four, and are instead the second bananas of the different elements. Zetterburn and Wrastor (Fire and Wind) are already heavily based on Smash characters like Wolf, Falco, Jigglypuff and Falcon. That leaves Kragg and Orcane (Earth and Water). Overall I decided to go with Orcane because his unique mechanic is much more interesting than Kragg's, and Kragg already has a lot of moves borrowed from heavyweights like DK and Bowser.

Moveset
Like I said earlier Orcane's moveset is already finished, and does not really need to be tweaked. You can find out more about his characters and specials on his official character page, or you can watch JoeKing's character overview where he describes all of the character's moves in detail. Sorry if this seems like a cop-out, but I felt like writing down an entire moveset in a form where most people probably wouldn't understand what anything meant was kind of weird when you already have videos explaining it way better than I ever could.

Anyway, there are still things that need to be added to Orcane's moveset due to Smash's rules.

Grab: Orcane lunges forward with his front legs stretched out, trying to grab the opponent. If it fails, Orcane will flop on his stomach like Bowser's dash attack. When Orcane actually grabs an opponent, he has them pushed down onto the ground rather than holding them in front of him like a normal character.

Pummel: Orcane spurts a couple of bubbles onto the foe from his mouth.

Forward Throw: After pushing the foe away from him, Orcane blows a stream of bubbles at the target. Deals 9% damage and can't really combo nor kill.

Back Throw: Orcane spins around with the target like in Sonic's back throw before blasting them away with a geyser from his back. Deals 11% damage and can kill at very high percents by the ledge.

Up Throw: Orcane picks the foe up with his head and stabs them with his back fin. Deals 9% damage and, like his forward throw, doesn't combo nor kill.

Down Throw: A simple belly flop like Bowser's down throw. Actually, it's identical to Bowser's Down Throw in knockback and damage, too.

And introducing...Puddle Throw! If Orcane has a puddle placed out on the field, Orcane will be able to use a puddle throw by pressing the Special Button while he's grabbing an opponent.
Puddle Throw: Orcane and the foe teleport over to the puddle, which creates a huge geyser from the puddle that blasts away opponent. Has horizontal knockback and is Orcane's best killthrow at 14% damage.

Ledge Attack: Orcane headbutts the opponent after slowly getting up from the ledge. A very bad ledge attack, since Orcane isn't used to ledges.

Taunt: Orcane creates a beautiful fountain with his back geyser.

Sleep animation: Orcane curls up like a Cat sleeping and protects himself in a bubble, which doesn't actually serves as protection.

Victory theme: , from 00:13 to 00:20

Conclusion
I know I have suggested a lot of characters on here. Heck, there are some that I honestly don't even care about that much these days. But out of all the character I have suggested on here, even more recent ones like Tom Nook, this is LIES FROM MELLON IN 2015. If you have any ideas or critique, please do let me know. This has been Mellon, ready to spam yet another forum thread while still having a 100% life bar.

Not gonna read this. No.

No. Sorry, but nuh uh, false, NO.

The game is younger then Shovel Knight. Also wouldn't that fire dude be a better pick?

The moveset's already made and I feel that makes it bland, honestly.

Coming up with new moves is the fun part of a character, and having all of this already made is just so boring, really.

In the end, I just can't support this.

Lego Shaq wrote:

The moveset's already made and I feel that makes it bland, honestly.

Coming up with new moves is the fun part of a character, and having all of this already made is just so boring, really.

I don't think this is a point against it... a good chunk of our characters had their movesets already made. It doesn't make it boring if the character is unique as it is.


However... I'm not sure about supporting this. There are other indie characters I would rather have first (Shovel Knight, Isaac). It also seems odd to me to include a character from another Smash fangame in our Smash fangame. Would they even be ok with that?

Roy wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

The moveset's already made and I feel that makes it bland, honestly.

Coming up with new moves is the fun part of a character, and having all of this already made is just so boring, really.

I don't think this is a point against it... a good chunk of our characters had their movesets already made. It doesn't make it boring if the character is unique as it is.


However... I'm not sure about supporting this. There are other indie characters I would rather have first (Shovel Knight, Isaac). It also seems odd to me to include a character from another Smash fangame in our Smash fangame. Would they even be ok with that?

I guess so, but this character has his moveset literally 100 percent already made. Everyone else needed SOME liberties taken.

That's another thing, a Smash-styled fangame character in a Smash fangame. Uhhh...sounds off to me.

Lego Shaq wrote:

No. Sorry, but nuh uh, false, NO.

The game is younger then Shovel Knight. Also wouldn't that fire dude be a better pick?

The moveset's already made and I feel that makes it bland, honestly.

Coming up with new moves is the fun part of a character, and having all of this already made is just so boring, really.

In the end, I just can't support this.

First of all, how old the game is should not affect our decision. Roy was added before the game was even out in Japan, developement on Greninja begun before X and Y was even announced, the newest Mario character Rosalina was added over many older and/or more important Mario charscters and so on.

Second, I didn't even care too much about Rivals of Aether being an indie game. I just cared about it being a Smash inspired game and felt like Orcane could represent the competitive side of the Smash fanbase.

You never explained why Zetterburn would be a better pick but I understand that you feel like Fire is more iconic than Water. But since he plays so much like the character with the most support right now (Aka Wolf) I decided to pick a more unique character instead. Orcane was also one of the first two characters to be revealed alongside "The fire guy", so...bonus points?

Also nothing is stopping you from suggesting changes to his moveset. We could completely revamp it if you all want to, but I think the current one is fine.

Roy wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

The moveset's already made and I feel that makes it bland, honestly.

Coming up with new moves is the fun part of a character, and having all of this already made is just so boring, really.

I don't think this is a point against it... a good chunk of our characters had their movesets already made. It doesn't make it boring if the character is unique as it is.


However... I'm not sure about supporting this. There are other indie characters I would rather have first (Shovel Knight, Isaac). It also seems odd to me to include a character from another Smash fangame in our Smash fangame. Would they even be ok with that?

Crusade is a free game, so they probably wouldn't care too much. If they did we'd also have Sakurai and his gang hot on our heels.

Mellon wrote:

Roy wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

The moveset's already made and I feel that makes it bland, honestly.

Coming up with new moves is the fun part of a character, and having all of this already made is just so boring, really.

I don't think this is a point against it... a good chunk of our characters had their movesets already made. It doesn't make it boring if the character is unique as it is.


However... I'm not sure about supporting this. There are other indie characters I would rather have first (Shovel Knight, Isaac). It also seems odd to me to include a character from another Smash fangame in our Smash fangame. Would they even be ok with that?

Crusade is a free game, so they probably wouldn't care too much. If they did we'd also have Sakurai and his gang hot on our heels.

What? How do RoA devs = Smash devs?

If anything, we could ask them were this ever to be a thing. Who knows, maybe they'd love the idea.

Smash styled fangame is exactly why their character would be very much in place within our game.

Still no. Small type not even released yet indie game, there are so many better reps to choose from. The only reason i see to use an RoA character is for a sense of smash fangame unity.

Lego Shaq wrote:

Mellon wrote:

Roy wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

The moveset's already made and I feel that makes it bland, honestly.

Coming up with new moves is the fun part of a character, and having all of this already made is just so boring, really.

I don't think this is a point against it... a good chunk of our characters had their movesets already made. It doesn't make it boring if the character is unique as it is.


However... I'm not sure about supporting this. There are other indie characters I would rather have first (Shovel Knight, Isaac). It also seems odd to me to include a character from another Smash fangame in our Smash fangame. Would they even be ok with that?

Crusade is a free game, so they probably wouldn't care too much. If they did we'd also have Sakurai and his gang hot on our heels.

What? How do RoA devs = Smash devs?

I was trying to say that devs don't care if you put their character in a free game, whether you work for Smash or the RoA team.

Mellon wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

No. Sorry, but nuh uh, false, NO.

The game is younger then Shovel Knight. Also wouldn't that fire dude be a better pick?

The moveset's already made and I feel that makes it bland, honestly.

Coming up with new moves is the fun part of a character, and having all of this already made is just so boring, really.

In the end, I just can't support this.

First of all, how old the game is should not affect our decision. Roy was added before the game was even out in Japan, developement on Greninja begun before X and Y was even announced, the newest Mario character Rosalina was added over many older and/or more important Mario charscters and so on.

Second, I didn't even care too much about Rivals of Aether being an indie game. I just cared about it being a Smash inspired game and felt like Orcane could represent the competitive side of the Smash fanbase.

You never explained why Zetterburn would be a better pick but I understand that you feel like Fire is more iconic than Water. But since he plays so much like the character with the most support right now (Aka Wolf) I decided to pick a more unique character instead. Orcane was also one of the first two characters to be revealed alongside "The fire guy", so...bonus points?

Also nothing is stopping you from suggesting changes to his moveset. We could completely revamp it if you all want to, but I think the current one is fine.

Roy wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

The moveset's already made and I feel that makes it bland, honestly.

Coming up with new moves is the fun part of a character, and having all of this already made is just so boring, really.

I don't think this is a point against it... a good chunk of our characters had their movesets already made. It doesn't make it boring if the character is unique as it is.


However... I'm not sure about supporting this. There are other indie characters I would rather have first (Shovel Knight, Isaac). It also seems odd to me to include a character from another Smash fangame in our Smash fangame. Would they even be ok with that?

Crusade is a free game, so they probably wouldn't care too much. If they did we'd also have Sakurai and his gang hot on our heels.

SO? Roy is one of the most popular protagonists of a famous Nintendo series, Greninja is a popular starter in the hugely famous Pokemon series, and Rosalina existed at least 6 years before SSB4 was released. AND THEY'RE ALL FIRST PARTY. That matters a lot.

Second, it doesn't matter if it "feels" like a "truuu smash game", it's still an indie game. I've seen this logic before.

I've yet to play RoA so no I can't help change his moveset. And I simply see Zetterburn around more.

And still, RoA devs aren't Smash devs. RoA dev's may care, we don't know.

And PH brings up a good point; game's not even released. It's like saying Yooka-Laylee should be in.

Lego Shaq wrote:

Mellon wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

No. Sorry, but nuh uh, false, NO.

The game is younger then Shovel Knight. Also wouldn't that fire dude be a better pick?

The moveset's already made and I feel that makes it bland, honestly.

Coming up with new moves is the fun part of a character, and having all of this already made is just so boring, really.

In the end, I just can't support this.

First of all, how old the game is should not affect our decision. Roy was added before the game was even out in Japan, developement on Greninja begun before X and Y was even announced, the newest Mario character Rosalina was added over many older and/or more important Mario charscters and so on.

Second, I didn't even care too much about Rivals of Aether being an indie game. I just cared about it being a Smash inspired game and felt like Orcane could represent the competitive side of the Smash fanbase.

You never explained why Zetterburn would be a better pick but I understand that you feel like Fire is more iconic than Water. But since he plays so much like the character with the most support right now (Aka Wolf) I decided to pick a more unique character instead. Orcane was also one of the first two characters to be revealed alongside "The fire guy", so...bonus points?

Also nothing is stopping you from suggesting changes to his moveset. We could completely revamp it if you all want to, but I think the current one is fine.

Roy wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

The moveset's already made and I feel that makes it bland, honestly.

Coming up with new moves is the fun part of a character, and having all of this already made is just so boring, really.

I don't think this is a point against it... a good chunk of our characters had their movesets already made. It doesn't make it boring if the character is unique as it is.


However... I'm not sure about supporting this. There are other indie characters I would rather have first (Shovel Knight, Isaac). It also seems odd to me to include a character from another Smash fangame in our Smash fangame. Would they even be ok with that?

Crusade is a free game, so they probably wouldn't care too much. If they did we'd also have Sakurai and his gang hot on our heels.

SO? Roy is one of the most popular protagonists of a famous Nintendo series, Greninja is a popular starter in the hugely famous Pokemon series, and Rosalina existed at least 6 years before SSB4 was released. AND THEY'RE ALL FIRST PARTY. That matters a lot.

Second, it doesn't matter if it "feels" like a "truuu smash game", it's still an indie game. I've seen this logic before.

I've yet to play RoA so no I can't help change his moveset. And I simply see Zetterburn around more.

And still, RoA devs aren't Smash devs. RoA dev's may care, we don't know.

And PH brings up a good point; game's not even released. It's like saying Yooka-Laylee should be in.

Roy is only popular because of Smash. Fire Emblem fans agree that he is the most boring protagonist.

I also never said it feels like a truuu smash game. I was trying to connect two Smash fan games in a fun and simple way, sorry if I freaking offended you.

Finally, Orcane can't just be added in a snap. If he's ever added RoA will have been out for a long while already. Plus I don't see any Yooka-Laylee early acess videos or Bloodstained tutorital and weapon guide videos out there now, huh?

Mellon wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

Mellon wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

No. Sorry, but nuh uh, false, NO.

The game is younger then Shovel Knight. Also wouldn't that fire dude be a better pick?

The moveset's already made and I feel that makes it bland, honestly.

Coming up with new moves is the fun part of a character, and having all of this already made is just so boring, really.

In the end, I just can't support this.

First of all, how old the game is should not affect our decision. Roy was added before the game was even out in Japan, developement on Greninja begun before X and Y was even announced, the newest Mario character Rosalina was added over many older and/or more important Mario charscters and so on.

Second, I didn't even care too much about Rivals of Aether being an indie game. I just cared about it being a Smash inspired game and felt like Orcane could represent the competitive side of the Smash fanbase.

You never explained why Zetterburn would be a better pick but I understand that you feel like Fire is more iconic than Water. But since he plays so much like the character with the most support right now (Aka Wolf) I decided to pick a more unique character instead. Orcane was also one of the first two characters to be revealed alongside "The fire guy", so...bonus points?

Also nothing is stopping you from suggesting changes to his moveset. We could completely revamp it if you all want to, but I think the current one is fine.

Roy wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

The moveset's already made and I feel that makes it bland, honestly.

Coming up with new moves is the fun part of a character, and having all of this already made is just so boring, really.

I don't think this is a point against it... a good chunk of our characters had their movesets already made. It doesn't make it boring if the character is unique as it is.


However... I'm not sure about supporting this. There are other indie characters I would rather have first (Shovel Knight, Isaac). It also seems odd to me to include a character from another Smash fangame in our Smash fangame. Would they even be ok with that?

Crusade is a free game, so they probably wouldn't care too much. If they did we'd also have Sakurai and his gang hot on our heels.

SO? Roy is one of the most popular protagonists of a famous Nintendo series, Greninja is a popular starter in the hugely famous Pokemon series, and Rosalina existed at least 6 years before SSB4 was released. AND THEY'RE ALL FIRST PARTY. That matters a lot.

Second, it doesn't matter if it "feels" like a "truuu smash game", it's still an indie game. I've seen this logic before.

I've yet to play RoA so no I can't help change his moveset. And I simply see Zetterburn around more.

And still, RoA devs aren't Smash devs. RoA dev's may care, we don't know.

And PH brings up a good point; game's not even released. It's like saying Yooka-Laylee should be in.

Roy is only popular because of Smash. Fire Emblem fans agree that he is the most boring protagonist.

I also never said it feels like a truuu smash game. I was trying to connect two Smash fan games in a fun and simple way, sorry if I freaking offended you.

Finally, Orcane can't just be added in a snap. If he's ever added RoA will have been out for a long while already. Plus I don't see any Yooka-Laylee early acess videos or Bloodstained tutorital and weapon guide videos out there now, huh?

No, he's very popular in Japan, IIRC. Just because you dislike him doesn't mean others don't.

I misunderstood, then, my bad.

Why'd you randomly bring up Bloodstained? Also, the game STILL isn't released. Just because videos are out doesn't change a thing.

not sure if anyone brought this up but Orcane is also just a clone of vaporeon from super smash land

eris27100 wrote:

not sure if anyone brought this up but Orcane is also just a clone of vaporeon from super smash land

This doesn't really matter since both characters were made by the same person.

Being from a Smash inspired game is the only thing going for this character. Any random indie dev can make a Smash game and start asking for money. There's many more deserving characters than this guy.

Leafyon wrote:

This doesn't really matter since both characters were made by the same person.

I'm just saying why should we go with an indie character when a Nintendo character can do the exact same things

eris27100 wrote:

Leafyon wrote:

This doesn't really matter since both characters were made by the same person.

I'm just saying why should we go with an indie character when a Nintendo character can do the exact same things

We'd literally be stealing the character if we implemented Vaporeon with their Smash Land moveset

Lego Shaq wrote:

eris27100 wrote:

Leafyon wrote:

This doesn't really matter since both characters were made by the same person.

I'm just saying why should we go with an indie character when a Nintendo character can do the exact same things

We'd literally be stealing the character if we implemented Vaporeon with their Smash Land moveset

I was by no way trying to imply that we should add Vaporeon but as it stands we'd just be taking the smash land Vaporeon and adding an indie character skin on to it

I had to scroll way down the forum to find a RoA rep thread. Support.

these counter-arguments are really dumb lol, rivals of aether is an excellent game that already has a following in the competitive fringe crusade seems to be trying to court these days, and im almost 100% certain the devs would be fine with a character being included

orcane has a really interesting playstyle and vaporeon has the same playstyle but worse imo. also why is anyone trying to argue yet another obscure pokemon rep in a game that already has snivy vs a recent character from an indie smashlike

most of the arguments were made like 6 months ago before the game even came out tho so they arent as ridiculous as they initially seemed

How about no.

As mentionned before, this character has absolutely no place in Smash whatsoever.

That wasn't really said. It was said that it was a shitty choice being from a game that hadn't come out, which was fair, but it's come out now. He's literally already a Smash character in all but name, too.

Kzinssie wrote:

I had to scroll way down the forum to find a RoA rep thread. Support.

these counter-arguments are really dumb lol, rivals of aether is an excellent game that already has a following in the competitive fringe crusade seems to be trying to court these days, and im almost 100% certain the devs would be fine with a character being included

orcane has a really interesting playstyle and vaporeon has the same playstyle but worse imo. also why is anyone trying to argue yet another obscure pokemon rep in a game that already has snivy vs a recent character from an indie smashlike

most of the arguments were made like 6 months ago before the game even came out tho so they arent as ridiculous as they initially seemed

Not dumb at all??

-A character from an indie game. Not a series, just an indie game.
-It's a Smash-like, as you said. You can't make a creative moveset for a newcomer with a Smash moveset already.
-Has a following? Every game has some sort of following.
-How many times do I gotta say it. A moveset won't get the character in. The CHARACTER and the moveset will get it in. And the character is just a stupid choice. And I don't think anyone tried to argue for Vaporeon; the point was that Orcane takes a ton out of Vaporeon's moveset.

And now that the games out, why should my points have changed???

There's a lot of excellent games that I would LIKE to see repped in Smash, but they shouldn't be IN Smash. I'm not really into RoA but it shouldn't be repped in Smash. Let's go like 5 years down the road. If RoA is still big and booming, perhaps has a large expansion or sequels, and has a clearly defined face of the game, consider adding a rep from that.

Also it has been 8 months since it's release. Not even a year. Come on.

I guess my main argument is: one specific audience that Crusade seems to be courting now is the competitive fringe - the sort of people who might play the "main" Smash games (by which I mean Melee, PM, and Sm4sh), but who also play oddball games like Smash 64, Brawl Minus, and... Rivals of Aether.

I'd say that, rather than whether it's big and booming 2-5 years down the line (I doubt it'll ever become a major gaming franchise, but neither do half the things in Crusade already), if anything we should look to if it still has a dedicated competitive base. I'll grant you it might die out in a year or two, but I doubt that will happen, especially if they keep patching it after the full release.

At the rate development is going there will be plenty of time to decide whether to put Orcane into 1.0, but if there's still a RoA scene a year from now I'm gonna be trotting this one back out.

Kzinssie wrote:

I guess my main argument is: one specific audience that Crusade seems to be courting now is the competitive fringe - the sort of people who might play the "main" Smash games (by which I mean Melee, PM, and Sm4sh), but who also play oddball games like Smash 64, Brawl Minus, and... Rivals of Aether.

I'd say that, rather than whether it's big and booming 2-5 years down the line (I doubt it'll ever become a major gaming franchise, but neither do half the things in Crusade already), if anything we should look to if it still has a dedicated competitive base. I'll grant you it might die out in a year or two, but I doubt that will happen, especially if they keep patching it after the full release.

At the rate development is going there will be plenty of time to decide whether to put Orcane into 1.0, but if there's still a RoA scene a year from now I'm gonna be trotting this one back out.

Of course we want competitive players. But that doesn't mean the game's gonna be all competitive. Putting in a third party character from a Smash-inspired game just for competitive purposes isn't a good idea. Want a competitive character? Put in someone like Scorpion.

And yeah of course it'll still have a dedicated competitive base right now. Most fighting games, regardless of what they are, do not die out 8 months after release. A game's lasting impact and lasting competitive scene is more important then it's impact and scene 8 months after release.

Dang, seems like people really don't like this idea lol. Tbh I always thought it would be pretty cool to see a Rivals character in Crusade (not sure Orcane was the best choice though lol). Alot of these arguments against him feel pretty shallow lol.

It doesn't really matter if the moveset's already made, he could still be cool. While it would be kinda "lame" that there wouldn't be much room for creativity, I don't feel that's a reason for the character to not be in. That, and I DO feel like he has SOME potential for a unique gameplay style. Perhaps he could have the unique Rivals airdodge, lack of grabs, or parry mechanic featured in that game.

Also while I do think that other indie characters "deserve" to be in first (don't really like using the word deserve when it comes to characters in smash but w/e), I don't feel like that's a logical reason to kill all discussion. Those characters could, and hopefully will, be added at some point, and when they do, maybe a Rival will have a chance. There's been many way more farfetched suggestions on this forum lol.

Lastly, the fact that "The game's new" isn't relevant. Just because we're talking about a character now doesn't mean that they should be added asap. We have no clue how long this game (Crusade) is gonna be in development, and at the rate things are moving, it looks like RoA will have a LOT of time to show it's worth, if it has any. Maybe the game will be really popular in say, 2-3 years, you never know. I think it's to early to make that decision now but I don't feel like talking about it now to gauge interest is the worst thing ever.

I kinda like the puddle throw idea mentioned in the OP, but having a Rivals character have all the Rivals mechanics also sounds cool. If we're gonna go with that though it should be Wrastor instead of Orcane, Wrastor is the least gimmicky character so there wouldn't be too much in addition to the Rivals mechanics to worry about.

why are people digging up my old threads

WHY MUST YOU ALL EMBARASS ME LIKE THIS

WHY DID I SUPPORT THIS THING MORE THAN GROVYLE ONCE UPON A TIME

Orcane would still be cool though. Please, keep on with your controversy wars.

We will dig up your secrets

DestinyIntwined wrote:

We will dig up your secrets

I play Brawl with wiimote

Mellon wrote:

DestinyIntwined wrote:

We will dig up your secrets

I play Brawl with wiimote

THE HORROR!