8-Bit Mario (Super Mario Bros.) Discussion: Jump Into Battle!

DEBUT: Super Mario Bros (1985)
MOST RECENT APPEARANCE: Mario Maker (2015)

SHAQ, ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?
LET ME EXPLAIN!

8-Bit Mario could be the alt of Mario, and Paper Mario has his own character slot. All three are completely different, especially Paper Mario, and you have to realize that Mario is BY FAR the most prestigious gaming character of all time. This isn’t even an opinion, this is a fact.

Would having three Mario’s really be so terrible, even if their movesets are completely different? I personally think that it wouldn’t really be that bad…Now, I’m going to go over 8-Bit Mario’s history, okay? Okay..

Mario’s first appearance was as this little guy as he adventured to save Princess Peach from Bowser. Really, he could only jump. But Mario’s first game was an absolute hit and is one of the most known videogames of all time, and this variation of him has made a huge return in the already strongly praised Mario Maker.

I’ve subconciously wanted to see 8-Bit Mario in Smash in some form for a really long time. I don’t even know why! I think that, despite him really only jumping, he could utilize some classic power-ups and such in his moveset.

Now, here comes the plethora of arguments.

8-BIT MARIO OVER PAPER MARIO?
The Thousand Year Door is my favorite game of all time and Paper Mario is my most wanted mainline Smash newcomer and second most wanted Crusade newcomer. I WANT PAPER MARIO A TON.

And if 8-Bit Mario could be different from Mario, and as such Paper Mario, could we not just have both? 8-Bit Mario could share the Mario slot with the man himself and Paper Mario could simply be in a different slot.

But..He Just Jumps. He’s JUMPMAN!
As I said, 8-Bit Mario could use projectiles and powerups, both major parts of Mario as a franchise. He could also even make jumping a major component in his moveset.

But It Makes No Sense!
8-Bit Mario is one of the most well-known Mario’s, and a very nostalgic figure that starred in the game that kicked off the entire Mario Bros series.

Alright, I’ll Give You A Chance.
Thanks!

Before I say anymore, we should hurry onto the moveset.

8-Bit Mario’s Moveset
8-Bit Mario is a very random character and his moves reflect that. He mixes enemies, power-ups, items and all sorts of cool things into tons of his moves. He’s very unique in this, as you can really play him any way; projectile, close-range, or a mix of both, or even more.

Onto the moveset!

Neutral Moves

Neutral: 8-Bit Mario sends forward a fireball. This does not deal a burn effect, unlike Mario’s, and has a small hitbox and damage; to make up for it, you can do it repeatedly, which functions as a jab.

Side Tilt: 8-Bit Mario kicks forward a Koopa shell. It goes forward a bit, then poofs into smoke.

Up Tilt: 8-Bit Mario throws a hammer upward. You can do this multiple times as they will juggle.

Down Tilt: 8-Bit Mario summons a Monty Mole, which burrows into the ground and pops out infront of him.

Dash Attack: 8-Bit Mario hops onto a Buzzy Beetle and spins forward.

Ledge Attack: 8-Bit Mario slides forward on his stomach.

Special Moves

Neutral Special: 8-Bit Mario uses a power-up. You can cycle through them by pressing the Neutral Special button rapidly.

Power-Ups:

Side Special: 8-Bit Mario holds a Bill Blaster, and Bullet Bills fire from it. They fire slowly but deal big damage and explode. They fire every 3 seconds.

Up Special: 8-Bit Mario uses the Power Balloon, which causes him to inflate and slowly float upward. You can “pop” him by hitting him and causing him to go into free-fall. However, this move has great horizontal speed and goes very high vertically.

Down Special: 8-Bit Mario puts down a Goomba, Koopa, or a Bob-Omb. If one of these enemies is on stage for 4 seconds, you can put down another one, with a maximum of 3 at a time.
Goomba: The Goomba is very quick and rushes forward. It causes a ton of damage and knockback, but can be defeated by just hopping onto it and with 2 neutral hits.
Koopa: The Koopa walks around forwards and backwards, and if it doesn’t hit an enemy eventually, it’ll hide in it’s shell and spin straight in the direction it was last facing. You can also jump on it, causing it to become a shell you can pick up.
Bob-Omb: The Bob-Omb walks straight forward until it explodes with a large hitbox. The simplest but perhaps most deadly of the enemies. You can automatically detonate it by pressing the Down Special button.

8-Bit Mario's Grabs

Neutral: 8-Bit Mario whips out a Piranha Plant, who extends forward, chomping and looking for foes to catch in it's mouth.

Forward Throw: The Piranha Plant chews up the enemy and spits them out, straight forward.

Back Throw: The Piranha Plant chews up the enemy, but 8-Bit Mario jumps and faces the opposite direction very quick before the Piranha Plant spits out the enemy.

Up Throw: The Piranha Plant spits the enemy upward and a Lakitu appears, and catches the opponent, and starts flying upwards. This is unique that, of course, while you can wiggle out of it, Lakitu will not stop and can potentially KO you in the upward boundaries. He will also slowly slap the enemy in the face while he does this.

Down Throw: 8-Bit Mario transforms into the Tanooki Statue, and slams straight down to the ground. Great meteor smash, but you do not revert out of Statue form until you hit an enemy or the ground, so don't use this in the air!

8-Bit Mario's Aerials

Neutral Aerial: The Tanooki Suit poofs onto 8-Bit Mario, and 8-Bit Mario spins around and around rapidly, tail swinging.

Forward Aerial: 8-Bit Mario hops onto a broom piloted by a Magikoopa and is rocketed forward.

Back Aerial: Same as the Forward Aerial, but the Magikoopa very quickly turns around once 8-Bit Mario hops on and THEN rockets forward.

Up Aerial: 8-Bit Mario equips his cape and flies upward.

Downward Aerial: 8-Bit Mario grabs a Chain-Chomp from his pocket, and the Chain Chomp slams straight forward down to the ground, taking 8-Bit Mario along with it.

Miscellaneous

Taunt 1: 8-Bit Mario transforms into another pixel Mario, from various games, such as Super Mario World, then turns back to normal 8-Bit Mario.

Taunt 2: 8-Bit Mario summons a Goomba then hops on it.

Win Animation: 8-Bit Mario jumps into a flag pole and scales down it, then walks off the screen.

Lose Animations: 8-Bit Mario performs the classic "game over" animation instead of clapping.

Alternate Costumes:

And here come's..the...

FINAL SMASH!
8-Bit Mario gets out an Invincibility Star, and becomes invincible. He now runs at high speeds and jumps much higher and one-hit kills any opponent he touches. However, it's hard to control him and the Final Smash doesn't last as long as most other Final Smashes.


End Note
I can't say I think this'll get bad reception; I feel this is a very unique moveset, but I'd love to know how to improve it. Did you know this is my 2nd "alternate character" thread? Big Boss and 8-Bit Mario.

Hope you enjoy, and thanks, Steve, for the first taunt, side special, and dash attack!

Support

If it was 8-bit Mario, wouldn't that mean his moves would only be from games with 8-bit Mario? Most of these are from Super Mario 3 (16-bit (I think)) and Super Mario World (32-bit). Also even in Mario Maker, the Super Mario Bros theme only allows Super Mushroom, Fireflower, Super Star, and the Amiibo costumes. Even some of his enemy moves don't make canonical sense, Chain-chomps did not appear till Mario 3, Magikoopas weren't around until world. Please fix these canonical errors.

DestinyIntwined wrote:

If it was 8-bit Mario, wouldn't that mean his moves would only be from games with 8-bit Mario? Most of these are from Super Mario 3 (16-bit (I think)) and Super Mario World (32-bit). Also even in Mario Maker, the Super Mario Bros theme only allows Super Mushroom, Fireflower, Super Star, and the Amiibo costumes. Even some of his enemy moves don't make canonical sense, Chain-chomps did not appear till Mario 3, Magikoopas weren't around until world. Please fix these canonical errors.

8-Bit Mario represents the appearance. Moveset wise he uses everything from the classic "-bit" Mario games. These are not canonical errors.

DestinyIntwined wrote:

Most of these are from Super Mario 3 (16-bit (I think)) and Super Mario World (32-bit).

Mario Bros. 3 is 8-Bit, and Mario World is 16-Bit

We make mistakes

Lego Shaq wrote:

DestinyIntwined wrote:

If it was 8-bit Mario, wouldn't that mean his moves would only be from games with 8-bit Mario? Most of these are from Super Mario 3 (16-bit (I think)) and Super Mario World (32-bit). Also even in Mario Maker, the Super Mario Bros theme only allows Super Mushroom, Fireflower, Super Star, and the Amiibo costumes. Even some of his enemy moves don't make canonical sense, Chain-chomps did not appear till Mario 3, Magikoopas weren't around until world. Please fix these canonical errors.

8-Bit Mario represents the appearance. Moveset wise he uses everything from the classic "-bit" Mario games. These are not canonical errors.

Then you should put it in the moveset

DestinyIntwined wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

DestinyIntwined wrote:

If it was 8-bit Mario, wouldn't that mean his moves would only be from games with 8-bit Mario? Most of these are from Super Mario 3 (16-bit (I think)) and Super Mario World (32-bit). Also even in Mario Maker, the Super Mario Bros theme only allows Super Mushroom, Fireflower, Super Star, and the Amiibo costumes. Even some of his enemy moves don't make canonical sense, Chain-chomps did not appear till Mario 3, Magikoopas weren't around until world. Please fix these canonical errors.

8-Bit Mario represents the appearance. Moveset wise he uses everything from the classic "-bit" Mario games. These are not canonical errors.

Then you should put it in the moveset

There is no need to clarify it farther.

Gonna be honest, I was skeptical going in. Especially since I thought you were only going to use content form SMB 1. Once I saw SMB 3 (the All-Stars version of which is my favorite 2D Mario) stuff in there, I warmed up to it a lot. I do think that Goomba's Shoe seems a little OP, though.

I do think that SMB 2 should be represented in some capacity. Yes, I know it wasn't originally a Mario game, the original SMB 2 was too hard for the west, so Nintendo reskinned Doki Doki Panic, and later rereleased the original SMB 2 as SMB: The Lost Levels. But a lot of mainstays of the Mario series came from that game, both in the form of mechanics and enemies.

Overall, big support. Essentially does everything that inexplicable Mario Maker moveset was trying to do, but does it well, and focuses on being a unique, enjoyable moveset, rather than selling us on a gimmick. Great job, as usual, Shaq.

Naughty Ottsel wrote:

Gonna be honest, I was skeptical going in. Especially since I thought you were only going to use content form SMB 1. Once I saw SMB 3 (the All-Stars version of which is my favorite 2D Mario) stuff in there, I warmed up to it a lot. I do think that Goomba's Shoe seems a little OP, though.

I do think that SMB 2 should be represented in some capacity. Yes, I know it wasn't originally a Mario game, the original SMB 2 was too hard for the west, so Nintendo reskinned Doki Doki Panic, and later rereleased the original SMB 2 as SMB: The Lost Levels. But a lot of mainstays of the Mario series came from that game, both in the form of mechanics and enemies.

Overall, big support. Essentially does everything that inexplicable Mario Maker moveset was trying to do, but does it well, and focuses on being a unique, enjoyable moveset, rather than selling us on a gimmick. Great job, as usual, Shaq.

I'm sorry! I tried to remake it too! Don't rub it in

I support the idea of this CHARACTER, as I too have also wanted to see him in, and it's good to know that A.) I'm not crazy, and B.) I'm not the only one who disagrees with the, "OH NO WE CAN'T HAVE THREE MAIROS" if they're all unique (Beat's Doc anyways).

That being said, I don't like this moveset. I feel like "summoning" is never a good idea, especially seeing as the characters you have him summoning are his own enemies (I don't have a problem with say, DDD using Waddle Dees because they're his "minions" and should be at his disposal). In addition, while I do like the idea of cycling through power-ups, I think you implemented it poorly here. I feel like he should cycle through the power-ups with down-b, and they should replace his neutral-b, which by default, is the fireball. I think having the fireball as his jab is a dumb idea unless you're willing to pull and SSB4 MM and make it his N-air too, which I also think is pretty dumb.

However, the problem is that if you were to listen to my suggestion and take out all the summoning moves, you kinda run out of moves to use. I feel like that's the main shortcoming of this character, he doesn't do much. I'm willing to support this character IF you can find a way to give him moves that aren't summon this and summon that. Or if you really want to go with the summoning route, at least only have him summon super iconic Mario 1/Mario 3 enemies, preferably Mario 1. But until then, no support.

He uses world stuff

AmareTSM wrote:

I support the idea of this CHARACTER, as I too have also wanted to see him in, and it's good to know that A.) I'm not crazy, and B.) I'm not the only one who disagrees with the, "OH NO WE CAN'T HAVE THREE MAIROS" if they're all unique (Beat's Doc anyways).

That being said, I don't like this moveset. I feel like "summoning" is never a good idea, especially seeing as the characters you have him summoning are his own enemies (I don't have a problem with say, DDD using Waddle Dees because they're his "minions" and should be at his disposal). In addition, while I do like the idea of cycling through power-ups, I think you implemented it poorly here. I feel like he should cycle through the power-ups with down-b, and they should replace his neutral-b, which by default, is the fireball. I think having the fireball as his jab is a dumb idea unless you're willing to pull and SSB4 MM and make it his N-air too, which I also think is pretty dumb.

However, the problem is that if you were to listen to my suggestion and take out all the summoning moves, you kinda run out of moves to use. I feel like that's the main shortcoming of this character, he doesn't do much. I'm willing to support this character IF you can find a way to give him moves that aren't summon this and summon that. Or if you really want to go with the summoning route, at least only have him summon super iconic Mario 1/Mario 3 enemies, preferably Mario 1. But until then, no support.

Sorry, but the summoning is sticking. There is no way to implment the enemies otherwise.

The fireball should be his neutral special? That's only going to make him more of a clone of Mario. Like, effect different or not, that's still a fireball for a neutral special. People will easily get the wrong idea.

You haven't given me good moves to IMPROVE the moveset; only told me the summoning is bad, which, quite frankly, I cannot fix, and this is also the only time summoning has been criticized from what I've seen. I really don't know how to improve his moves, and the fireball being his neutral will only make him more of a Mario clone.

I really appreciate the feedback, but if there is any way you can give specific pointers on how to improve the moveset besides too much summoning, I'd like to hear those as well.

Naughty Ottsel wrote:

Gonna be honest, I was skeptical going in. Especially since I thought you were only going to use content form SMB 1. Once I saw SMB 3 (the All-Stars version of which is my favorite 2D Mario) stuff in there, I warmed up to it a lot. I do think that Goomba's Shoe seems a little OP, though.

I do think that SMB 2 should be represented in some capacity. Yes, I know it wasn't originally a Mario game, the original SMB 2 was too hard for the west, so Nintendo reskinned Doki Doki Panic, and later rereleased the original SMB 2 as SMB: The Lost Levels. But a lot of mainstays of the Mario series came from that game, both in the form of mechanics and enemies.

Overall, big support. Essentially does everything that inexplicable Mario Maker moveset was trying to do, but does it well, and focuses on being a unique, enjoyable moveset, rather than selling us on a gimmick. Great job, as usual, Shaq.

Thanks a ton! And the thing is there's not much to represent SMB2 besides the turnip, which Peach has.

OmegaSteve777 wrote:

Support

Thanks, Steve!

DestinyIntwined wrote:

Mkay, now that's cleared up for me

Support

That's some weird formatting, but much appreciated!

It's your achievement. Also I like being Fancy.

On second thought, the down special is going to be ridiculous when there are 6 Marios all at once.

That'd be 18 enemies.

That'd be a lot of lag.

Pls fix

OmegaSteve777 wrote:

On second thought, the down special is going to be ridiculous when there are 6 Marios all at once.

That'd be 18 enemies.

That'd be a lot of lag.

Pls fix

There is no way to fix that that I can think of

Oh...I dunno, how about maybe making it so you can only summon one at a time?

How can you use the down throw in midair? Something weird about the description there...

Just a thought: Why is there nothing from his first few appearances? (Donkey Kong / Jr, Mario Bros) He could use the hammer from Donkey Kong as a forward smash, for example.

Also... is everything going to be 8bit? Considering Mario Maker brought in 8-bit sprites for things such as Monty Mole, I don't see why not. Following from this, I'm not sure I like SMW-exclusive content showing up such as the cape and power balloon. Mario uses the cape already as a side special... (He also uses fireball as a neutral special - is it really fair that 8-bit Mario gets it as his neutral attack?).

Not sure if I'm going to support yet... I do admit that this will take less time to implement than other characters simply because of the spriting involved, but i feel like people might want Dr. Mario before this.


EDIT: What if the Up Special was the rocket from SMB2? Explodes when it reaches max height (which is after Mario drops out of it) for a potential KO move.
Also maybe something with a key to represent both SMB2 and DK94...

I was excited for this suggestion. I had a feeling you would use the power-ups from the other classic games. The enemy summoning part... eh I don't know. I feel you should take Roy's suggestion into consideration. Bring the other pre-SMB titles into the moveset.

As for ideas, I think up tilt should have 8-bit Mario perform a upwards jump, hitting a platform from the original Mario Bros. (the one that forms a hump of some sort when hit from below). The Hammer power-up is already used in neutral special therefore I think it's unnecessary to reuse it in u-tilt.

For Up smash, 8-bit Mario jumps upwards to strike a floating POW block. It deals heavy damage and knockback if the enemy were right above the POW block. It also sends nearby grounded opponents flying but with much less damage and knockback.

At first, I was unsure going into this, but this is actually a pretty solid moveset! Support.

Hmm I'm not sure if i should support, would he use 8 bits sprites or would his sprites be like mario's but with different animations? 8-bit characters won't fit with the rest, not even with ZSS imo.

Roy wrote:

How can you use the down throw in midair? Something weird about the description there...

Just a thought: Why is there nothing from his first few appearances? (Donkey Kong / Jr, Mario Bros) He could use the hammer from Donkey Kong as a forward smash, for example.

Also... is everything going to be 8bit? Considering Mario Maker brought in 8-bit sprites for things such as Monty Mole, I don't see why not. Following from this, I'm not sure I like SMW-exclusive content showing up such as the cape and power balloon. Mario uses the cape already as a side special... (He also uses fireball as a neutral special - is it really fair that 8-bit Mario gets it as his neutral attack?).

Not sure if I'm going to support yet... I do admit that this will take less time to implement than other characters simply because of the spriting involved, but i feel like people might want Dr. Mario before this.


EDIT: What if the Up Special was the rocket from SMB2? Explodes when it reaches max height (which is after Mario drops out of it) for a potential KO move.
Also maybe something with a key to represent both SMB2 and DK94...

That was a typo. Was a down aerial.

I mean, if I made everything only be from SMB and 8-bit, then that would only represent the first game; as I've said, he represents the 8-bit characteers in general.

That is a good idea, and I hadn't thought of it before. Expect to see some DK and Mario Bros stuff soon.

TaXMaN wrote:

I was excited for this suggestion. I had a feeling you would use the power-ups from the other classic games. The enemy summoning part... eh I don't know. I feel you should take Roy's suggestion into consideration. Bring the other pre-SMB titles into the moveset.

As for ideas, I think up tilt should have 8-bit Mario perform a upwards jump, hitting a platform from the original Mario Bros. (the one that forms a hump of some sort when hit from below). The Hammer power-up is already used in neutral special therefore I think it's unnecessary to reuse it in u-tilt.

For Up smash, 8-bit Mario jumps upwards to strike a floating POW block. It deals heavy damage and knockback if the enemy were right above the POW block. It also sends nearby grounded opponents flying but with much less damage and knockback.

Yeah, maybe I should change the up tilt, and that's a good idea.

And I like the POW block idea, may implement it.

desu wrote:

Hmm I'm not sure if i should support, would he use 8 bits sprites or would his sprites be like mario's but with different animations? 8-bit characters won't fit with the rest, not even with ZSS imo.

So? He's completely unique in that he's 8-bit. Just because he won't "fit in" doesn't mean he CAN'T be in. Also, Game & Watch.

OmegaSteve777 wrote:

Oh...I dunno, how about maybe making it so you can only summon one at a time?

I don't think I'll change it for now. If he actually gets in the balancing team can balance him, I don't need to worry too much about it.

I thought of another idea. Maybe the bomb from Wrecking Crew can be worked into 8-bit Mario's down smash. 8-bit Mario slams the bomb with a hammer. The explosion travels quite a distance either side of 8-bit Mario but the move has a lot of end lag since 8-bit Mario himself is slightly shaken by the explosion.

TaXMaN wrote:

I thought of another idea. Maybe the bomb from Wrecking Crew can be worked into 8-bit Mario's down smash. 8-bit Mario slams the bomb with a hammer. The explosion travels quite a distance either side of 8-bit Mario but the move has a lot of end lag since 8-bit Mario himself is slightly shaken by the explosion.

Would the animation for that be the same as the Bowser fight in SMB3 when your on the ground and bowser ground pounds?

TaXMaN wrote:

I thought of another idea. Maybe the bomb from Wrecking Crew can be worked into 8-bit Mario's down smash. 8-bit Mario slams the bomb with a hammer. The explosion travels quite a distance either side of 8-bit Mario but the move has a lot of end lag since 8-bit Mario himself is slightly shaken by the explosion.

Yes, I very much like that idea. Thanks again!

DestinyIntwined wrote:

TaXMaN wrote:

I thought of another idea. Maybe the bomb from Wrecking Crew can be worked into 8-bit Mario's down smash. 8-bit Mario slams the bomb with a hammer. The explosion travels quite a distance either side of 8-bit Mario but the move has a lot of end lag since 8-bit Mario himself is slightly shaken by the explosion.

Would the animation for that be the same as the Bowser fight in SMB3 when your on the ground and bowser ground pounds?

..Why would it?

DestinyIntwined wrote:

TaXMaN wrote:

I thought of another idea. Maybe the bomb from Wrecking Crew can be worked into 8-bit Mario's down smash. 8-bit Mario slams the bomb with a hammer. The explosion travels quite a distance either side of 8-bit Mario but the move has a lot of end lag since 8-bit Mario himself is slightly shaken by the explosion.

Would the animation for that be the same as the Bowser fight in SMB3 when your on the ground and bowser ground pounds?

I kind of imagined it be the fall animation after hitting a bomb from Wrecking Crew.

Well it is one of the times where Mario is actually stunned, plus there are lines around him to signify it... I just spout off ideas that come into my head.

Lego Shaq wrote:

Sorry, but the summoning is sticking. There is no way to implment the enemies otherwise.

Well who said you have to implement the enemies? I find it weird that I'm the only person who thinks that it's weird for Mario's enemies to be helping him in battle.

Lego Shaq wrote:

The fireball should be his neutral special? That's only going to make him more of a clone of Mario. Like, effect different or not, that's still a fireball for a neutral special. People will easily get the wrong idea.

Yeah, but I think the fact that he'll be able to CHANGE his neutral special will make it COMPLETELY different. Yeah, some people are sure to complain, but you can't please everybody, there's always gonna be somebody who get the wrong idea and/or complains.

Lego Shaq wrote:

You haven't given me good moves to IMPROVE the moveset; only told me the summoning is bad, which, quite frankly, I cannot fix, and this is also the only time summoning has been criticized from what I've seen.

Well like I said, I don't really know how to improve the moveset, that's for you to do. I mean, you could leave it the way it is, and I still think it would be okay but I don't think he'd stand much of a chance of getting in. I mean, like I said, that's a problem you're gonna have to deal with when suggesting a character who does nothing but jumps and use power-ups.

Lego Shaq wrote:

I really appreciate the feedback, but if there is any way you can give specific pointers on how to improve the moveset besides too much summoning, I'd like to hear those as well.

Like I said, I don't really know how I could improve the moveset. Although, if I had to design a moveset for this character, I would base it almost entirely around his powerups. That in my opinion is the biggest shortcoming of regular Mario's moveset. That, and I would have a move where he actually stomps on enemies, burying them while on the ground and spiking them while in the air. (Kinda like Luigi's custom Up Special 3, Burial header, except with a different animation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXJEQXu2TJY ) In terms of other "physical" types of attacks, he could have a N-air/U-air where he does the flips he does while he has a star in SMB3, and he could have a D-air where he plummets to the ground in his death pose and spikes, and although moves like that have kinda been done to death imo, this is one of the few case where this actually reflects a move that that character does in one of their games (Ridley is the only one that comes to mind).

I will say that, while I don't like summoning enemies, summoning any objects that Mario could use for himself could be good. This includes things like Bob-Ombs, Green/Red shells, etc.

Plus somebody mentioned the Hammer from some other 8-Bit Mario games, which I also think could fill in for some moves instead of summoning.

(Wow, I guess I did have some suggestions on how you could improve the moveset, go figure)

AmareTSM wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

Sorry, but the summoning is sticking. There is no way to implment the enemies otherwise.

Well who said you have to implement the enemies? I find it weird that I'm the only person who thinks that it's weird for Mario's enemies to be helping him in battle.

Lego Shaq wrote:

The fireball should be his neutral special? That's only going to make him more of a clone of Mario. Like, effect different or not, that's still a fireball for a neutral special. People will easily get the wrong idea.

Yeah, but I think the fact that he'll be able to CHANGE his neutral special will make it COMPLETELY different. Yeah, some people are sure to complain, but you can't please everybody, there's always gonna be somebody who get the wrong idea and/or complains.

Lego Shaq wrote:

You haven't given me good moves to IMPROVE the moveset; only told me the summoning is bad, which, quite frankly, I cannot fix, and this is also the only time summoning has been criticized from what I've seen.

Well like I said, I don't really know how to improve the moveset, that's for you to do. I mean, you could leave it the way it is, and I still think it would be okay but I don't think he'd stand much of a chance of getting in. I mean, like I said, that's a problem you're gonna have to deal with when suggesting a character who does nothing but jumps and use power-ups.

Lego Shaq wrote:

I really appreciate the feedback, but if there is any way you can give specific pointers on how to improve the moveset besides too much summoning, I'd like to hear those as well.

Like I said, I don't really know how I could improve the moveset. Although, if I had to design a moveset for this character, I would base it almost entirely around his powerups. That in my opinion is the biggest shortcoming of regular Mario's moveset. That, and I would have a move where he actually stomps on enemies, burying them while on the ground and spiking them while in the air. (Kinda like Luigi's custom Up Special 3, Burial header, except with a different animation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXJEQXu2TJY ) In terms of other "physical" types of attacks, he could have a N-air/U-air where he does the flips he does while he has a star in SMB3, and he could have a D-air where he plummets to the ground in his death pose and spikes, and although moves like that have kinda been done to death imo, this is one of the few case where this actually reflects a move that that character does in one of their games (Ridley is the only one that comes to mind).

I will say that, while I don't like summoning enemies, summoning any objects that Mario could use for himself could be good. This includes things like Bob-Ombs, Green/Red shells, etc.

Plus somebody mentioned the Hammer from some other 8-Bit Mario games, which I also think could fill in for some moves instead of summoning.

(Wow, I guess I did have some suggestions on how you could improve the moveset, go figure)

Enemies are one of the most major parts about Mario. Why wouldn't you put them in a moveset? And hey, they could be forced to help him in reality, lol.

So you're suggesting I made the suits change the neutral special? Not a bad idea at all. Maybe I'll change it.

The down aerial isn't a bad idea, but while Power-Ups are major I'd say enemies are as equally major. I'll consider implementing a few of your suggestions. Thanks!

I like how Lego Shaq is the major critique of the site, helping others and making good movesets himself