Zoroark (Pokemon) discussion: Master of illusions!

Oh, goodness! Looks like Mellon's at it again! Yes, I know this is like my seven billionth topic or whatever, but this is one I've always had in mind. Todays subject is the sneaky Dark-type from Generation 5: Zoroark!


Picture of Zoroark and his possible alt costumes.

Pros/Cons of being in the game
Zoroark is one of, if not the most popular Pokémon from Black&White. It's rareness, cool design and debut in it's own movie made it stand out among most of the Gen 5 Pokémon (Love Gen 5 btw.) What really sets it apart though is it's ability to create illusions, which I will touch on later. The things he has against him though is that we already have a Gen 5 representative in the form of Snivy (Oh, goodie. The second time Snivy has screwed up my Poké-suggestions...) and that we have Lucario in the game, who is pretty much the Zoroark of Generation IV. Despite this, Zoroark would be an interesting addition to an already awesome roster that needs some more good Pokémon reps, because my god. Pichu, Pikachu, Jigglypuff and Snivy don't really represent the series too well IMO.

Playstyle


Like his (Her? I dunno. Dat hair tho.) stats in the Pokémon games, Zoroark should be able to hit pretty hard and be quick on his feet, with the downside being fast falling and being very light weight. Think Captain Falcon, but a bit stronger, longer range and with the weight of Jigglypuff. Of course, we can't forget about the one thing that sets him apart, his signature ability illusion. For those of you who don't know what this ability does, it basically makes Zoroark LOOK like the Pokémon in the back of your party, without actually copying their stats. The illusion disappears when Zoroark is hit by an enemy attack, so NO, taking damage from being off-screen too long does not count. Here's how I think this would work in Crusade.

Special Feature: Zoroark illusion
Much like Lucario has his Aura as his "Special Feature", Zoroark could have his illusion ability implemented into the real game. So, when you select Zoroark on the Character select screen, you'll get to pick another fighter instead of starting the battle. This fighter is the one you will disguise yourself as when the battle starts. When you get into battle with your character, it will look exactly like the real deal, and even use the same animations for all of his moves. Like I said earlier, one hit and the mask is off. However, the hitboxes for all the moves remain the same as Zoroarks, which can lead to some confusing stuff for your opponent. Bowsers Firebreath suddenly hits everyone around him, even though his fire is clearly in front of him! What kind of sorcery is this!?

Bonus! Illusion moves!

Another idea I heard (Wink wink, editing magic) that instead of "transforming" into a fighter, Zoroark can trick the opponent into thinking that he's using a move by pressing the attack button twice. This was a really cool idea, but how about this? Instead of having to press the attack button twice, you have to press the grab button at the same time to make it an "Illusion move". If you had to double-tap for an illusion move, every single move would need to have a slight delay, to make sure that the player has time to double-tap before the move is executed. An Illusion move should remain the normal move's animation, but with no hitboxes whatsoever. This can be used to trick your opponent into spot-dodging, and then quickly landing a punishing hit. If the developers want Zoroark to get REALLY trolly, however, they could make it so that the illusion move makes the enemy flinch when hit, but this would probably be a bit too annoying.

Moveset

Here comes the fun part! Unlike my Grovyle moveset, I will try and base some of Zoroark's attacks off of real moves, not just his specials. Let's start with the regular A attacks.


A attacks

Jab: Zoroark quickly scratches the target in front of him endlessly, similar to a Fury Swipes attack. If you let go of A, he will do a finisher upwards.


Side Tilt: A weak slash in front of Zoroark, which makes the target flinch for a split second, allowing for a followup attack. Is very quick, but has no knockback and deals 5% damage. If the target is holding an item, Zoroark will steal it while attacking, like the move Thief.


Up Tilt: Zoroark raises his claw upwards, hitting anyone above him hard. Is not quite as quick as his other tilts, but makes up for it with it's force.


Down Tilt: Some kind of scratch in front of him. Nothing special here.


Dash attack: Similar to Mario's dash attack, Zoroark slides on his side while kicking, a small hint to the TM move Low Sweep he can learn. Slightly stronger than Mario's dash though, and deals more damage.


Smashes

So, Zoroark already has the Zoroark illusion/illusion move. That's great.  But here's something else people have been suggesting. Since Zoroark is good at creating illusions, all of his smashes should look the same while charging, to confuse the opponent. I imagine it could be Zoroark slightly crouching...Now that I think about it, it might also confuse the one using him as well...oh well!

Up smash: Like his Up Tilt, Zoroark raises his claw upwards in this move. After a short delay, however, a dark void is summoned in Zoroark's hand, similar to Mewtwo's up smash. This is one of Zoroark's best moves, as it's both powerful and has some good upward range. However, it can't hit enemies on the ground.. Deals 27% damage when fully charged. 


Side smash: Zoroark slashes in front of him with a Dark claw, similar to the move Night Slash. Deals 20% damage when fully charged, but there's a 2 in 10 chance that the strength of the move is DOUBLED, making it very threatening. However, the strong version of the move does have some end lag, but the start of the move is always dangerously quick.


Down Smash: This is a unique one: Zoroark duck(lett)s slightly more than while charging and lets out a loud snarl, which creates damaging soundwaves next to him. The snarl is a hint to the move...well...Snarl. Has really good knockback, but not as impressive damage. An excellent finisher for shield-broken enemies.


Aerieals


Neutral air: A Low kick. Sort of quick, and lasts for a while. Like the Falcon Knee, it can deal more damage if it hits at just the right time. Deals 5% normally, and 15% if it hits just right.

Forward air: Zoroark quickly scratches vertically in front of him, a reference to the shitty move Scratch. While it only deals 4% damage, it has an exceptional )-shaped range, is executed extremely quickly and has...er...not shitty knockback? Sure, we'll go with that.

Back air: Zoroark turns around and spews a bit of fire behind him, which hits multiple times but has pretty much no knockback. Lasts for about one second, and is obviously a nod to Flamethrower (Or Incinerate if you wanna get REALLY fancy).

Up air: After a slight delay, Zoroark shoots a shadow-y orb upwards. It's pretty short, but has some great knockback and is good for keeping your opponent airborn. Inspired by Shadow Ball.

Down air: Zoroark slashes with both of his claws crossed downwards. Can meteor smash if it hits just right, but it is very hard to execute. Has decent damage and knockback, although it does not always knock foes downwards.

Specials


Neutral B: Night Daze. After a big delay, Zoroark unleashes a shock wave all around him, like a shield of sorts. traps and deals rapid damage to anyone who gets hit, and launches foes quite far. Can deal a maximum of 30% damage, though most of the time it deals 27% damage. The downside is incredible start- and end lag.

Bonus option! Dark Pulse. Since most people want the option above to be Zoroark's Final Smash, I'll add a second option. This option (The move stated in the beginning of this segment) will work similar to Night Daze, since they look really similar and have similar effects. Instead of having this huge buildup for a super powerful move that lasts for a long time, he could execute the move quicker but only deal 25% damage at most.

Side B: U-turn. Zoroark lets out his cry before lunging forward. If it hits an opponent, Zoroark will bounce back to avoid getting counterattacked. Deals 13% damage, and leaves Zoroark sliding forward if it misses. 

Down B: Payback. A sequence of slashes forward after a slight startup. During this startup, Zoroark has super armor. What makes this move unique is that, if Zoroark is attacked during the startup, the move will execute immediately, like a counter. This deals twice as much damage as if not getting hit. Deals 15% damage if not hit, and 30% damage (With greater knockback) if hit.

Bonus option! Pursuit. Since Zoroark can't learn Payback naturally, here's another option! Zoroark gets on all fours and looks forward. If anyone in front of him is dashing (Or walking? May be a bit too OP), Zoroark rams into them at incredible speed without stopping. If he does not notice anyone running in front of him the single second this move lasts, he will lunge forward anyway, but the move will be weaker, travel a shorter distance and have slightly more endlag. Does not work on Wavedashing opponents, and breaks through shields like butter. Deals 15% damage if someone is running, and 8% if not.

Up B (Recovery): Extrasensory. A small, pink orb appears above Zoroark, which can be controlled for about two and a half seconds before it disappears. If the orb is at an edge while the move ends, Zoroark will be flung to the edge and grab onto it. If it hits an opponent, however, Zoroark will switch places with the enemy and forcefully fling them in the direction Zoroark was standing. The opponent can still easily predict the orb's movements, which makes this move...not so useful.

Final Smash: Ultimate illusion.
Zoroark all-out transforms into the fighter chosen as his disguise, with all the fighters moves and hitboxes. It also receives a small boost in all stats. After a certain period of time, Zoroark goes back to normal. This can force your opponent to change up their fighting style, and be deadly if it's a heavy character due to that Attack (And other stats) boost.

Bonus option! Night Daze.
Most people wanted this to be his Final smash as I stated earlier, so here you go! Zoroark lets out a darker, louder and more menacing version of his cry. Then, he slams his claws into the ground and creates a shock wave around him, like described for his Neutral B version of the move. When he is charging up for this move, however, everyone else on the screen freezes, like with Shadow's final smash. Unlike Zoroark's Neutral B version, this one has more range, power and awesomeness.

Other things
Taunt: Zoroark lets out it's cry and stands on all fours.
Entrance: Like the fighter he's disguised as OR, if he gets the illusion move ability instead, his sprite could appear, pixel by pixel, from the background, and lets out it's cry with a roar.
Victory: Zoroark appears, disguised as Mewtwo, then flips and reverts back to his normal form, giggling.
Idle 1: Zoroark flings his hair around.
Idle 2: Instead of flinging it around, Zoroark scratches his hair.
Idle 3: Since he can create illusions, have his sprite glitch a little bit once in a while!

Ending statement
Zoroark is cool, and represents Gen 5 better than Snivy ever could. Seriously, Snivy is cool, but doesn't scream "Play Gen 5!"

Pretty cool moveset, although I think for a F.Air, that move is absolute overkill. It reminds me of Mac's Jolt Haymaker in SSB4, except this one can flat-out murder newer players. Not very many moves should go over the 25% mark, especially an aerial.

Couple of things:
Change the forward air, it's pretty broken.
Zoroark can only be female if that isn't going to happen then no go character rejected, lo siento.


I think Night Daze should be the final smash, because the whole Illusion gimmick seems to exists solely for the Final Smash (which is pretty lame as it is anyways to be honest), because the gimmick itself is completely useless outside of online play. The only way I've thought Illusions could be utilized is to either give Zoroark the ability to fake it's attacks somehow to trick your opponent into shielding / dodging (perhaps by double tapping the attack button?), or incorporating the ability in it's Final Smash through different means.

HypeConduit wrote:

Pretty cool moveset, although I think for a F.Air, that move is absolute overkill. It reminds me of Mac's Jolt Haymaker in SSB4, except this one can flat-out murder newer players. Not very many moves should go over the 25% mark, especially an aerial.

Yeah...I was pretty tired while writing that. Oops...

HypeConduit wrote:

Pretty cool moveset, although I think for a F.Air, that move is absolute overkill. It reminds me of Mac's Jolt Haymaker in SSB4, except this one can flat-out murder newer players. Not very many moves should go over the 25% mark, especially an aerial.

The forward air has gone from hero to zero!...or four. Because it deals 4% damage. Hihihi.

Also, @AEM, I've added Night Daze as a second option to Zoroark's final smash. I actually like that one better to be honest with y'all.

Not bad, support

I think we should intergrate Golden's idea of Zoroark having 2 ranges. The actual range in which knockback, damage and flich occur and a second, bigger, illusionary range which causes opponents to flinch only.

Slissith wrote:

I think we should intergrate Golden's idea of Zoroark having 2 ranges. The actual range in which knockback, damage and flich occur and a second, bigger, illusionary range which causes opponents to flinch only.

Golden who?

He basically means kelp-thing.

Slissith wrote:

I think we should intergrate Golden's idea of Zoroark having 2 ranges. The actual range in which knockback, damage and flich occur and a second, bigger, illusionary range which causes opponents to flinch only.

Lol, I completely forgot I even made that idea.

Mellon wrote:

Golden who?

Me.
I'm GoldenYuiitusin. But currently with the moniker of Kelp-Thing, which I have had for too long now.
Back to being Golden again.

Support

Slissith wrote:

I think we should intergrate Golden's idea of Zoroark having 2 ranges. The actual range in which knockback, damage and flich occur and a second, bigger, illusionary range which causes opponents to flinch only.

I...really don't quite understand what a "Second, bigger range" is referring to. Specify?

Mellon wrote:

Slissith wrote:

I think we should intergrate Golden's idea of Zoroark having 2 ranges. The actual range in which knockback, damage and flich occur and a second, bigger, illusionary range which causes opponents to flinch only.

I...really don't quite understand what a "Second, bigger range" is referring to. Specify?

Think of marth. The tip of his sword causes the greatest damage and knockback, while the rest of the sword cause less damage and knockback.

So, if Zoroark had a sword like marth, the sword's tip would only cause flinch and hitstun (no damage or knockback) while the rest of the sword would cause damage and knockaback normally.

Honestly I think it's an amazing idea. In such a large roster we need the most original concepts we can get, that's unlike anything that has ever appeared in Smash so far.

Just a thought for Zoroark - a lot of his moves should have the same start up. Every Smash has the same charging animation, for example. Zoroark is all about mindgames, preventing his opponent from knowing what move he's going to do.

Roy wrote:

Just a thought for Zoroark - a lot of his moves should have the same start up. Every Smash has the same charging animation, for example. Zoroark is all about mindgames, preventing his opponent from knowing what move he's going to do.

Agreed. That's another smart way to differentiate Zoroark and represent the whole illusions deal.

Support

Roy wrote:

Just a thought for Zoroark - a lot of his moves should have the same start up. Every Smash has the same charging animation, for example. Zoroark is all about mindgames, preventing his opponent from knowing what move he's going to do.

That is an amazing idea! Added it to the OP.

As for the secondary range some people are talking about...where should that range be. Zoroark doesn't have a sword (Captain Obvious strikes back) so where can we implement this? In his claws?

Roy wrote:

Just a thought for Zoroark - a lot of his moves should have the same start up. Every Smash has the same charging animation, for example. Zoroark is all about mindgames, preventing his opponent from knowing what move he's going to do.

Just to clarify - the same startup animation, not the time. Correct? In Smash a lot of the time startup refers to a move's number of frames before it can hit an opponent.

Falcon8r wrote:

Just to clarify - the same startup animation, not the time. Correct? In Smash a lot of the time startup refers to a move's number of frames before it can hit an opponent.

Maybe a bit of both, depending on the move. But not the whole startup animation, just the initial couple frames so opponents don't know what to expect.

Mellon wrote:

Roy wrote:

Just a thought for Zoroark - a lot of his moves should have the same start up. Every Smash has the same charging animation, for example. Zoroark is all about mindgames, preventing his opponent from knowing what move he's going to do.

That is an amazing idea! Added it to the OP.

As for the secondary range some people are talking about...where should that range be. Zoroark doesn't have a sword (Captain Obvious strikes back) so where can we implement this? In his claws?

Eeyup.

Slissith wrote:

Mellon wrote:

Roy wrote:

Just a thought for Zoroark - a lot of his moves should have the same start up. Every Smash has the same charging animation, for example. Zoroark is all about mindgames, preventing his opponent from knowing what move he's going to do.

That is an amazing idea! Added it to the OP.

As for the secondary range some people are talking about...where should that range be. Zoroark doesn't have a sword (Captain Obvious strikes back) so where can we implement this? In his claws?

Eeyup.

7.8/10 too much strange

Support.

Zoroark?

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NO! OH JESUS GOD NO! KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE! AAAAAAAHHHHH!

*ah-hem*. Sorry about that. I just could really never get behind Zoroark. To be totally honest, she's not terrible, and my initial reaction was just a gag, but Zoroark is so outrageously Lucario on a design level that I can only see "dark type Lucario" when I see her.

Although, I guess she's better than any of the starters of Gen 5. I mean, the Oshawott line is bland, the Snivy line is dumb, and the Tepig line is ugly, not to mention fire/fighting
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You know what? I support Zoroark wholeheartedly, especially with all the design aspects and ideas in this thread. ROCK ON!

MenacingRelic98 wrote:

Zoroark?

...
...
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NO! OH JESUS GOD NO! KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE! AAAAAAAHHHHH!

*ah-hem*.  Sorry about that.  I just could really never get behind Zoroark. To be totally honest, she's not terrible, and my initial reaction was just a gag, but Zoroark is so outrageously Lucario on a design level that I can only see "dark type Lucario" when I see her.

Although, I guess she's better than any of the starters of Gen 5.  I mean, the Oshawott line is bland, the Snivy line is dumb, and the Tepig line is ugly, not to mention fire/fighting
...
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You know what? I support Zoroark wholeheartedly, especially with all the design aspects and ideas in this thread.  ROCK ON!

Glad you had that change of heart, mainly because of Zoroark's main gimmick being that she/he/it/* can mask her/him/it/*self as any opponent or ally at will.

Total support for me

I will honestly have to say no to Zoroark.

The reason I say no is cause I feel that people are behind this character more for being the only notable legendary Pokemon from the 5th gen than anything else. Personally, I feel that Gen rep is outdated. I'd rather have a Pokemon that is established in the series and a staple to the franchise instead of the missing flavor of the month Pokemon.

I use to feel that way about Lucario back in the Brawl days, but at least he has been appearing in the Pokemon series in a notable manner. For starters, he is heavily featured in the Pokken Tournament arcade game. He returned to Smash in SSB4, surprisingly to me. He was one of the special Pokemon given to you in X/Y by a gym leader and the first Pokemon you use Mega Evolution on.

Where is Zoroark? Running around in the grass just like other wild Pokemon in X/Y and not featured as much as Lucario outside of the main Pokemon games.

I won't support Zoroark

Too much like Lucario in terms of appearance when we have several hundreds of other monsters to choose from.

Plus we already have Snivy in Crusade, we don't need another Gen V Pokemon, do we?

...Nah

Smash King wrote:

I feel that people are behind this character more for being the only notable legendary Pokemon from the 5th gen

Zoroark isn't a Legendary Pokemon

SnivyKawaii (CJ) wrote:

Smash King wrote:

I feel that people are behind this character more for being the only notable legendary Pokemon from the 5th gen

Zoroark isn't a Legendary Pokemon

Zoroark not is a legendary pokémon and i support