Ganondorf Discussion

Falcon8r wrote:

Not to mention the fact that it's moving pretty fast in the opposite direction. >_>

I like the new look too, but honestly it would feel more like Ganondorf if it resembled the OOT projectile, just my opinion.

Hey, even in Twilight Princess he has the same type of projectile.

I guess... Feels nice, though. I just can't imagine it having the same feeling... It kind of looks like a projectile version of the Warlock Punch, IMO, and I like that.

Yes, I know that I'm bumping an old thread but HOLY TRIFORCE I love Ganondorf in this game. When I first glanced at him I thought you guys changed his entire moveset, but instead you created an excellent mix of old an original moves. Nothing beats hitting that side smash...oh, right, smashes! That's what I want to talk about.

Ganondorf's smashes are very flashy and powerful. The Up smash is excellent for catching airborne foes, the forward smash is basically a OHKO, and the down smash is...er...well...not that cool. Ganondorf's two other smashes look powerful and brutal, but the down smash is just two bland kicks. I suggest changing it to something more reminiscent of his down tilt, where he creates an explosion by slamming his hand into the ground. Oh, and I totally agree with the whole down special debate you had here. Other than that, 'dorf is great!

Mellon wrote:

Yes, I know that I'm bumping an old thread but HOLY TRIFORCE I love Ganondorf in this game. When I first glanced at him I thought you guys changed his entire moveset, but instead you created an excellent mix of old an original moves. Nothing beats hitting that side smash...oh, right, smashes! That's what I want to talk about.

Ganondorf's smashes are very flashy and powerful. The Up smash is excellent for catching airborne foes, the forward smash is basically a OHKO, and the down smash is...er...well...not that cool. Ganondorf's two other smashes look powerful and brutal, but the down smash is just two bland kicks. I suggest changing it to something more reminiscent of his down tilt, where he creates an explosion by slamming his hand into the ground. Oh, and I totally agree with the whole down special debate you had here. Other than that, 'dorf is great!

I would think having Down Tilt and Down Smash both as ground-pound type moves would be kinda boring. DSmash is supposed to be reminiscent of his Melee DSmash.

Falcon8r wrote:

Mellon wrote:

Yes, I know that I'm bumping an old thread but HOLY TRIFORCE I love Ganondorf in this game. When I first glanced at him I thought you guys changed his entire moveset, but instead you created an excellent mix of old an original moves. Nothing beats hitting that side smash...oh, right, smashes! That's what I want to talk about.

Ganondorf's smashes are very flashy and powerful. The Up smash is excellent for catching airborne foes, the forward smash is basically a OHKO, and the down smash is...er...well...not that cool. Ganondorf's two other smashes look powerful and brutal, but the down smash is just two bland kicks. I suggest changing it to something more reminiscent of his down tilt, where he creates an explosion by slamming his hand into the ground. Oh, and I totally agree with the whole down special debate you had here. Other than that, 'dorf is great!

I would think having Down Tilt and Down Smash both as ground-pound type moves would be kinda boring. DSmash is supposed to be reminiscent of his Melee DSmash.

Of course it's reminiscent of his down smash! That's why I think it's lame! The down tilt can be changed too, it's kind of similar to Samus's down tilt anyway. But if both are going to be ground-pounds, I agree it would be very lame.

Question? I just noticed that, uncharged, Ganondorf's F-Smash is a ridiculously powerful OHKO, and is a guaranteed OHKO at full power. I play Ganondorf, so no complaints here, but it really does feel like cheating whenever I use this attack since, well... It's almost an OHKO even when uncharged. Perhaps a nerf in the future to give it knockback growth similar to that of its mainstream incarnations are in order, maybe only slightly stronger to compensate for the lack of aerial use?

Also, a suggestion; With the absence of Wizard's Foot, Ganondorf doesn't really have an air-to-ground option anymore. Perhaps in the air, it's his iconic ground-pound, which is noticeably absent in Crusade (I don't really count D-Tilt, it's more of an energy burst than anything). He would leap upwards a short distance and carry up opponents he hits, like with the beginning of Porky's U-Spec, and then would quickly crash into the ground with dark energy, spiking opponents he comes into contact with. It would be a much better option than his current... Well, nothing, and it would be a good replacement functionally for the aerial Wizard's Foot.

On the ground... I'm not sure. Dead Man's Volley? A buffed version of the current D-Spec? The same as in the air? I'm just trying to analyze options here is all.

I don't know, his FSmash is pretty darn slow. I think the fact that it is a OHKO is a bit much, but I also doubt a human player will run into it very often.

Isnt his jab a gimp? Correct me if Im wrong

Correct me, if I'm wrong, since I rarely play as Ganondorf in Crusade, but does he have the Chokeslam Side Special from Brawl and Smash 4? If no, then he really should. It is based on source material (Twilight Princess) and differentiated him from Captain Falcon some more.
Plus, Ganoncide is best Suicide!

^ Ganoncide is best suicide indeed lmao

Dorfs Down smash is choppy and even if it hits I feel out of place and turned off by it.

I feel like Ganon need some tilts that use his sword. It feels weird that he has alot more range in the air than on the ground. Maybe change f-tilt and u-tilt?

AmareTSM wrote:

I feel like Ganon need some tilts that use his sword. It feels weird that he has alot more range in the air than on the ground. Maybe change f-tilt and u-tilt?

I agree f-tilt is pretty choppy. It's also not as dangerous and intimidating as the official titles.

Hakma wrote:

AmareTSM wrote:

I feel like Ganon need some tilts that use his sword. It feels weird that he has alot more range in the air than on the ground. Maybe change f-tilt and u-tilt?

I agree f-tilt is pretty choppy. It's also not as dangerous and intimidating as the official titles.

I personally like U-Tilt, though F-Tilt could be changed as well. The only gripe I'd have with it is that it seems to be the only one of Ganondorf's attacks in the official Smash games with an actual canonical base, though I do feel that he could use his sword more often on the ground as well. If it was changed to either a thrust with his sword, or a large swing of his blade, I'd be just as content though.

Eh, make F-tilt his jab then.

Hey, another thing I'd like to bring up; Is it possible to make his walk animation his float animation? It feels like it'd fit him better than just looking upwards.

^ Good point. Thanks for the suggestion

suggestions: make ganon use his sword in his jab and all his aerial attack. it's kinda weird how ganon uses his sword in the air only upwards and neutrally.
Make something else for f-smash (elbow or sword attack). i seriously don't get why his f-smash is the warlock punch... i does not help me in the slighest since is very slow,predictable and does not have super armor.

Mikael_Fernandes wrote:

suggestions: make ganon use his sword in his jab and all his aerial attack. it's kinda weird how ganon uses his sword in the air only upwards and neutrally.
Make something else for f-smash (elbow or sword attack). i seriously don't get why his f-smash is the warlock punch... i does not help me in the slighest since is very slow,predictable and does not have super armor.

D-Air is incredible, I wouldn't change it for the world. F-Air is kept because it's been the one thing Ganondorf has that Falcon doesn't in every Smash game, and also because it's useful as a kill move (though I guess you could add the sword for reach, but you'd need to remove some power for balance). Warlock Punch has reached cult status, to the point of where it was incorporated in both Twilight Princess (to kill a Sage) and Hyrule Warriors (as a combo finisher). The Warlock Punch is integral to a Smash incarnation of Ganondorf. I would hate to see it leave. (Plus it's an OHKO in Crusade, which I think more than makes up for its lag).

The one thing from the aerials that I wouldn't mind changed would be his B-air, but even then I like Crusade's multi-hit kick as is.

As I've mentioned before, if anything was to be changed to a sword attack, it would be a thrust for F-Tilt. In fact Ganondorf never even used a sword in OoT; it was only in the Spaceworld 2000 tech demo, even though it's become iconic. I personally like the idea of Ganondorf being a mix of combat, magic, and swordplay.

Tl;dr version: I agree that Ganondorf needs more sword time on the ground, but I like his moveset mostly as-is.

Shiruza wrote:

Mikael_Fernandes wrote:

suggestions: make ganon use his sword in his jab and all his aerial attack. it's kinda weird how ganon uses his sword in the air only upwards and neutrally.
Make something else for f-smash (elbow or sword attack). i seriously don't get why his f-smash is the warlock punch... i does not help me in the slighest since is very slow,predictable and does not have super armor.

D-Air is incredible, I wouldn't change it for the world. F-Air is kept because it's been the one thing Ganondorf has that Falcon doesn't in every Smash game, and also because it's useful as a kill move (though I guess you could add the sword for reach, but you'd need to remove some power for balance). Warlock Punch has reached cult status, to the point of where it was incorporated in both Twilight Princess (to kill a Sage) and Hyrule Warriors (as a combo finisher). The Warlock Punch is integral to a Smash incarnation of Ganondorf. I would hate to see it leave. (Plus it's an OHKO in Crusade, which I think more than makes up for its lag).

The one thing from the aerials that I wouldn't mind changed would be his B-air, but even then I like Crusade's multi-hit kick as is.

As I've mentioned before, if anything was to be changed to a sword attack, it would be a thrust for F-Tilt. In fact Ganondorf never even used a sword in OoT; it was only in the Spaceworld 2000 tech demo, even though it's become iconic. I personally like the idea of Ganondorf being a mix of combat, magic, and swordplay.

Tl;dr version: I agree that Ganondorf needs more sword time on the ground, but I like his moveset mostly as-is.

well,what about incorporate ganondorf's sword into his aerials,while still keeping its atributes? then,d-air,b-air and f-air would only have more length,while still keeping it's power (and spike factor regarding to d-air).
also,ganondorf used flame choke in twilight princess,not warlock punch.
I also did not see ganondorf use it in hyrule warriors

Mikael_Fernandes wrote:

Shiruza wrote:

Mikael_Fernandes wrote:

suggestions: make ganon use his sword in his jab and all his aerial attack. it's kinda weird how ganon uses his sword in the air only upwards and neutrally.
Make something else for f-smash (elbow or sword attack). i seriously don't get why his f-smash is the warlock punch... i does not help me in the slighest since is very slow,predictable and does not have super armor.

D-Air is incredible, I wouldn't change it for the world. F-Air is kept because it's been the one thing Ganondorf has that Falcon doesn't in every Smash game, and also because it's useful as a kill move (though I guess you could add the sword for reach, but you'd need to remove some power for balance). Warlock Punch has reached cult status, to the point of where it was incorporated in both Twilight Princess (to kill a Sage) and Hyrule Warriors (as a combo finisher). The Warlock Punch is integral to a Smash incarnation of Ganondorf. I would hate to see it leave. (Plus it's an OHKO in Crusade, which I think more than makes up for its lag).

The one thing from the aerials that I wouldn't mind changed would be his B-air, but even then I like Crusade's multi-hit kick as is.

As I've mentioned before, if anything was to be changed to a sword attack, it would be a thrust for F-Tilt. In fact Ganondorf never even used a sword in OoT; it was only in the Spaceworld 2000 tech demo, even though it's become iconic. I personally like the idea of Ganondorf being a mix of combat, magic, and swordplay.

Tl;dr version: I agree that Ganondorf needs more sword time on the ground, but I like his moveset mostly as-is.

well,what about incorporate ganondorf's sword into his aerials,while still keeping its atributes? then,d-air,b-air and f-air would only have more length,while still keeping it's power (and spike factor regarding to d-air).
also,ganondorf used flame choke in twilight princess,not warlock punch.
I also did not see ganondorf use it in hyrule warriors

I'd honestly only like to see that on his F-Air, because I really don't want Ganondorf to use his sword *too* much, at least as his OoT incarnation. Ftilt, however, already feels like something of a sword swing, so... I'd be fine with that.
Don't touch D-Air though. I know the stomp is a Captain Falcon move but as a Ganondorf main across all versions nothing beats the satisfaction of stomping the competition under your skull-crushing heel. ouo

Because of the closed fist and rushing motion, it's clearly more like the Warlock Punch. ...That and the fact that he doesn't choke the Sage with it, he punches it. As for Hyrule Warriors, it's the Brawl incarnation; He charges up a large energy ball, tosses it down, then uses the Warlock Punch to make it explode (complete with the pulling back and rotating backfist and such).

Hey if I nag on about the ground pound enough can we start a discussion about it?

tbh I;m not that fond of it either. Would definetely prefer a poke instead.

Slissith wrote:

tbh I;m not that fond of it either. Would definetely prefer a poke instead.

Hm? No, not, not D-tilt. I was thinking of incorporating the whole thing (Rising upwards, readying his fist, then crashing into the ground) as his aerial D-Spec, to compensate for his lack of air-to-ground options after the removal of the Warlock Foot.

For a good example of how it would work, look at this video.

https://youtu.be/hjNA_9gbDzk?t=34s

I like it, but at the same time it would fit better if down b was something else entirely... hmm....

Slissith wrote:

I like it, but at the same time it would fit better if down b was something else entirely... hmm....

Such as? The ground pound is an incredibly iconic move for Ganondorf. What else could it possibly be?

Shiruza wrote:

Slissith wrote:

I like it, but at the same time it would fit better if down b was something else entirely... hmm....

Such as? The ground pound is an incredibly iconic move for Ganondorf. What else could it possibly be?

No, I meant as in the grounded version being entirely different in order to match the ground pound better. But since we have opted to use the current down special the aerial one should probably a similar action but in 45 degree angle.

Slissith wrote:

No, I meant as in the grounded version being entirely different in order to match the ground pound better. But since we have opted to use the current down special the aerial one should probably a similar action but in 45 degree angle.

Oh, I see. Sorry for the assumption. ^ ^;

Well, I was originally thinking the same thing as you, but they've obviously put a lot of work into making it functional for the next version. Since it didn't seem like something that's useful in the air, I thought it would be justified if it was replaced with something that's sorely lacking in his moveset.

Is the 45 degree angle meant to match the Wizard's Foot, but any chance?

Shiruza wrote:

Slissith wrote:

No, I meant as in the grounded version being entirely different in order to match the ground pound better. But since we have opted to use the current down special the aerial one should probably a similar action but in 45 degree angle.

Oh, I see. Sorry for the assumption. ^ ^;

Well, I was originally thinking the same thing as you, but they've obviously put a lot of work into making it functional for the next version. Since it didn't seem like something that's useful in the air, I thought it would be justified if it was replaced with something that's sorely lacking in his moveset.

Is the 45 degree angle meant to match the Wizard's Foot, but any chance?

It's ok man. Glad to have a conversation of quality.

The current down special is a cool choice in regards to representation but... I'm not sold in the gameplay department, even taking into account the newest version of the special in 0.9.1. Of course, no-one guarantees the special will not be tweaked further and ultimately we'll have to reserve judgement untill we play the game. But in regards to the air, I feel that a diagonal Dark Cyclone would probably function as a spiking windbox... depending on how that's implemented a ground pound might be a better choice.

The 45 degree angle is meant to match most aerial versions; wizard's foor, hadouken etc.

Slissith wrote:

It's ok man. Glad to have a conversation of quality.

The current down special is a cool choice in regards to representation but... I'm not sold in the gameplay department, even taking into account the newest version of the special in 0.9.1. Of course, no-one guarantees the special will not be tweaked further and ultimately we'll have to reserve judgement untill we play the game. But in regards to the air, I feel that a diagonal Dark Cyclone would probably function as a spiking windbox... depending on how that's implemented a ground pound might be a better choice.

The 45 degree angle is meant to match most aerial versions; wizard's foor, hadouken etc.

I see. I agree that if they were to keep it as the aerial version as well (which just... boggles my mind), they should angle it to match the Wizard's Foot's trajectory, and maybe that it should also slow his descent while holding down Special. That being said, I think it'd be better for his D-Spec in the air to be the Ground Pound, falling at the angle of the Wizard's Foot; That way, it would retain all of the functionality (meteor smash, air-to-ground, etc.) while also having a larger hitbox upon landing and a much larger base in canon.

I think you guys, especially the developers, should all read this: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/07/ganondorf-smash-bros/
And yes, it's a reliable source. Source Gaming always check their sources thousand times, even going as far as having 5 people who translate japanese text into english just to avoid as many errors as possible, AND they provide a big load of side-to-side comparisons. I think this is a required read for anyone trying to make Ganondorf for a Smash game, no matter if official or fan-made.

TrinitroMan wrote:

I think you guys, especially the developers, should all read this: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/07/ganondorf-smash-bros/
And yes, it's a reliable source. Source Gaming always check their sources thousand times, even going as far as having 5 people who translate japanese text into english just to avoid as many errors as possible, AND they provide a big load of side-to-side comparisons. I think this is a required read for anyone trying to make Ganondorf for a Smash game, no matter if official or fan-made.

So, uh... What? Do you request the moveset be reverted to Brawl status?

I mean this is certainly a good read to help me cope with his mainstream moveset, but that doesn't warrant enough to change his already fantastic Crusade moveset.