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Perfect Hell

Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptySun Feb 10, 2013 1:04 pm

Now that WoL is confirmed, I've taken the time to update the moveset, it now has pictures and gifs for every attack in the moveset:
https://projectcrusade.forumotion.com/t1613-pending-moveset-topic#45702

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Perfect Hell

Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 12, 2013 6:07 pm

Heihachi time:

Spoiler:
 

And so, there it is. A heavy ground-based combo machine full of cancels to recreate his Tekken combos. Everything in the moveset comes straight from Tekken or PSASBR with the exception of the back air, but even that is just one of Heihachi's Tekken ground attacks adapted to an aerial. Heihachi has a nice anti-air in his neutral special to help him out with his air weakness, overall he should be balanced.

Any criticisms?

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Last edited by Perfecthell4 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:23 pm; edited 3 times in total
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MercuryHg34

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 12, 2013 6:21 pm

Get that shit sprited asap, please.
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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 12, 2013 6:34 pm

"Neutral Special: Bowling Pin Toss
Heihachi pulls out a Tekken Bowling pin and tosses it into the air with a high arc."

I'd like to know where that move comes from, mostly because I know nothing about Tekken and it would seem out of character for him.
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Perfect Hell

Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 12, 2013 6:40 pm

purple smart wrote:
"Neutral Special: Bowling Pin Toss
Heihachi pulls out a Tekken Bowling pin and tosses it into the air with a high arc."

I'd like to know where that move comes from, mostly because I know nothing about Tekken and it would seem out of character for him.

Tekken Bowling is a for-fun mode present in some Tekken games. Off-hand I remember it being in Tekken 5, not sure how many others it may be in. It stood out from the rest of Tekken because, well, in the midst of a serious fighting game you have a bowling mini-game that was quite memorable. On top of that, the pin toss is in PSASBR, on the equivalent of a neutral special.

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 12, 2013 6:46 pm

Just being the super nit-picky guy here, but you forgot pummel, and get up attack
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Perfect Hell

Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 12, 2013 7:28 pm

Pummels and ledge attacks don't exist in any game Heihachi has appeared in, so those are to be Sakurai'd. Get-up attack would be Rising Roundhouse, which is pretty much the same as Ftilt 2 or Dtilt 4 but coming from the laying down state.

-Added get-up attack to the moveset.

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Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 12, 2013 9:08 pm

Fixed up the moveset some to reduce redundancy and include more attacks from the games.

- Dash attack "Iron Hand" removed in favor of Leaping Side Kick, his actual dashing attack from Tekken.
- Ftilt 2, "Spinning Roundhouse" removed due to the roundhouse's present on get-up and Dtilt 4. Ftilt 2 is now Hammer Punch, and there is now an Ftilt 3, Lightning Crush
- Neutral Air is no longer "Wind Slicer" which was made redundant by the new dash attack and even Hell Axle to some extent. Nair is now "Double Palm Strike" which makes up for the loss of a palm strike on dash attack.
- Up tilt 2, Up air, and Side special now have the correct names

I think it's perfect now.

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Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyThu Feb 14, 2013 12:50 pm

I've put some thought into Heihachi cancels, want to know what you guys (and especially the coders) think.

Jab and tilts can cancel into each other any hit before the last within that jab/tilts combo. Keep in mind:
- Jab is 3 hits
- Ftilt is 3 hits
- Utilt is 2 hits
- Dtilt is 4 hits

If an attack has already been used in your cancel sequence, it cannot be gone back to. Thus the following is possible:
- Jab 1->Jab 2->Ftilt 1-> Ftilt 2 -> Ftilt 3
But this next combo is NOT possible:
- Jab 1->Ftilt 1-> Ftilt 2-> Jab 2-> Jab 3
The jab 2 is not possible because a jab has already been done. I figured this would be easier to code than allowing a back and forth between different tilts without resetting to the first hit of a sequence. Not being able to repeat the first hit of a tilt or jab is to prevent infinites.
The last hit of any of the tilt/jab sequences will have moderate knockback, too much to combo off of. The following is NOT possible:
- Jab 1->Jab 2->Jab 3->Ftilt 1
These linking hits (Jab 1&2, Ftilt 1&2, etc.) should have high enough hitstun with nearly no knockback to allow fluid linking of hits and also be tough to DI out of, allowing smooth combo links. However, they should have high enough endlag to prevent infinites by pausing after a hit and starting again from Jab.
Besides cancelling into each other, these hits can be jump cancelled, allowing a link into an aerial such as Fair or Nair. Aerials cannot cancel into anything. The linking moves can also cancel into smash attacks. Smash attacks have no cancels themselves, and Fsmash has long enough starting lag not to be a combo from cancels.
All in all, the following would be possible:
- Jab 1,2 -> Ftilt 1,2 -> Dtilt 1,2,3 -> Utilt 1 -> Dsmash
^ 9 hit combo

Here I would like to bring up an important part of Tekken combos that has been crafted into the above system. In Tekken, every character has several 10 hit combos possible and are demonstrated on their move list. The 10 hit combo is an iconic part of Tekken, well-known among all players as the longest possible combo built into the game. Every character has at least one of them in their moveset. Through my above system, the longest possible combo actually works out perfectly to 10 hits:
Jab 1,2 -> Ftilt 1,2 -> Dtilt 1,2,3 -> Utilt 1 ->
So far we have 8 hits. The last piece can be one of several 2-hit attacks in Heihachi's moveset:
- Nair
- Fair
- Usmash

By ending the combo with one of those three, you achieve a fully-fleshed 10 hit combo.

There is one more type of cancel present on the linking moves. This is the Feint. Feints exist on many different combos in Tekken, allowing you to cancel in the middle of a combo into a side step. It helps back off if your combo is hitting their guard or open up mind-game possibilities out of a combo. Pressing B during a combo will perform a feint. This will allow you to back off against shield or to try forcing a mistake out of your opponent. For example:
You are currently hitting your opponent, they did not shield. Part way into the combo, you feint. The opponent thinks you dropped the combo and goes for an aerial, but you, anticipating their offense, throw out a jab first, catching them in a brand new combo.

The only other cancel present in the moveset is on the Down special, noted in the moveset. Pressing A during the start-up of Dspecial will perform a force-palm attack instead of the counter stance, which is pretty much a fourth smash attack.

Lastly, linking moves are not special-cancellable. Inputting B as a cancel will perform the feint technique.

tl;dr
- Jabs and tilts cancel into eachother, but the same tilt/jab combo cannot be used twice in a combo sequence
- Jabs and tilts are jump cancellable or smash attack cancellable
- Jabs and tilts can be "feint" cancelled by pressing B
- Through the above, the maximum possible combo is 10 hits, a max combo number nostalgic to all Tekken players
- Dspecial has it's own cancel, described in the original moveset


Okay, any criticisms?

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MercuryHg34

MercuryHg34

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyThu Feb 14, 2013 2:27 pm

That sounds really cool. He better be pretty heavy with crap recovery to compensate since his grounded game is combo-central.
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C_Mill24
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C_Mill24

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  C-Mill24

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptySat Feb 16, 2013 12:58 pm

Oh great. Stone. My favorite. Let me just sit here.
Spoiler:
 
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C_Mill24
Level 9 CPU
C_Mill24

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  C-Mill24

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyMon Feb 18, 2013 4:54 pm

What could possibly go wrong?
Bubsy:
 
Full moveset coming soon when I feel motivated enough. Playing the games wasn't fun.
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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyMon Feb 18, 2013 6:17 pm

do you post these on any other forum
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C_Mill24
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C_Mill24

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  C-Mill24

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyMon Feb 18, 2013 6:24 pm

Only one other, but not as often.
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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyMon Feb 18, 2013 6:25 pm

you should really post these elsewhere

they're pretty good but you'll get more attention on a forum that doesn't suck
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Super Smash Bros Crusade
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Super Smash Bros Crusade

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyMon Feb 18, 2013 10:16 pm

i would suggest the "make your move" contest thing on smashboards

i think golden pops in there every once in a while as well
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Perfect Hell

Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyMon Feb 18, 2013 11:00 pm

Hey Det, could you tell me how the Heihachi cancels system looks from a coding perspective? It's only a few posts back, big wall of text on how i thought it should work and I want to know if that's feasible.

Edit - I'll just put it here for convenience:
Spoiler:
 

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GigaPichu

GigaPichu

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 19, 2013 5:13 am

Heihachi having more than one combo move sounds like it'd be a bitch to sprite
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SP



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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 19, 2013 5:31 am

GigaPichu wrote:
Heihachi having more than one combo move sounds like it'd be a bitch to sprite

Well he doesn't have to worry about spriting so he obviously doesn't care about that

We need to join a union
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GigaPichu

GigaPichu

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 19, 2013 6:27 am

lol a union.

well more-so we just dont have to do it to those kinds of expectations and just do whats easier for us.

I mean its not like heihachi cant have just single moves that combo into eachother or anything.
hell why not even just have the single hit able to hit more than once hitbox-wise
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Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 19, 2013 11:14 am

GigaPichu wrote:
lol a union.

well more-so we just dont have to do it to those kinds of expectations and just do whats easier for us.

I mean its not like heihachi cant have just single moves that combo into eachother or anything.
hell why not even just have the single hit able to hit more than once hitbox-wise

Most of Meta Knight's moves are multi-hit, that wasn't a problem.

I'm just making a moveset that makes sense. There really wasn't a better alternative in creating a fluid combo based moveset that feels like Tekken and includes a lot of his attacks and ultimately ends up at a 10 hit combo.

Having single hit animations function as multi-hits would be really dumb, especially in Heihachi's case where your talking about a single punch, a hammer fist, or a sweep kick. None of those would make sense to be multi-hit (except maybe the hammer fist). Also, the case of his Dtilt MUST be 4 hits because that is a Heihachi signature, not just 4 random attacks strung together. Outside of that, all i then asked for is a typical 3-hit jab, a 3-hit Ftilt (MK has one of those) and a 2-hit Up tilt.

Edit:
On another note, the 4-hit Dtilt is really a 2-hit spriting wise, because the first hit just loops identically 3 times before the 4th hit.

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GigaPichu

GigaPichu

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 19, 2013 11:20 am

Meta Knight wasnt sprited by anyone here, so that's invalid
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Perfect Hell

Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyTue Feb 19, 2013 6:19 pm

Just to be clear about the spriting work involved with Heihachi:
- Nair, Fair and Usmash are 2 hits from one animation, so those aren't multiple animations on one input
- I'm changing how Dspecial works. Heaven's Wrath is a counterattack but in Tekken, how he counters depends on the incoming attack. For example, he might catch a kick, pull their leg in, and kick them in the chest. Rather than giving this a cancel into the force palm which doesn't really make much sense, the force palm will be the counterattack. That reduces Dspecial to the typical sprite load of a counter: the stance and the counter
- Therefore, the only extra sprite work involved with this character are:
-- 1 extra Utilt
-- 1 extra Dtilt
-- 2 extra Ftilts

I don't think that's asking for much.

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Perfect Hell

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C_Mill24
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C_Mill24

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  C-Mill24

The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyFri Feb 22, 2013 7:15 am

This is what Kirby could have been if copy abilities weren't implemented into the games.
Dream Land Kirby:
 
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C_Mill24
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C_Mill24

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  C-Mill24

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyWed Feb 27, 2013 2:58 pm

I can't connect to smash forums to post these, so their just going to be here for the time being.
Anyway...
Eevee:
 
Critique and comments are appreciated.
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C_Mill24
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C_Mill24

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  C-Mill24

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptySat Mar 09, 2013 8:39 am

Moblin:
 
Miniblin:
 
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C_Mill24
Level 9 CPU
C_Mill24

  2072
  C-Mill24

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyFri Mar 15, 2013 3:13 pm

Well, here goes nothing.
Saki (Revision):
 
Oh and by the way
Primid:
 
Full move set coming soon.
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Perfect Hell

Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyFri Mar 15, 2013 5:20 pm

That Saki down special is unnecessary, see if you can find something else from the games to add in. The neutral special already switches mode based on distance in your revised ersion, so having a mode switch is a waste of a special. Also, Saki's reflector already does have damage and knockback (not sure if this is in 0.8.4, if not the balancers have changed it for 0.9)

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C_Mill24
Level 9 CPU
C_Mill24

  2072
  C-Mill24

The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyWed Mar 27, 2013 1:51 pm

C_Mill+Boredom=Inspiration... or was it the other way around. Who cares?
Kickle:
 
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Perfect Hell

Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Re: The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic   The Community Super Smash Bros. Moveset Topic - Page 3 EmptyThu Mar 28, 2013 10:05 am

Diddy Kong/Dixie Kong
Spoiler:
 

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