PCBR Competitive Information Thread

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This thread's OP will contain Tier Lists, Tournament rules, and maybe some other PCBR information. Anything the PCBR decides to make public, I will put here. These things have been posted other places in the forum, but this thread will make it easy to find everything (especially for tournament rules, copy paste from this thread for your tournaments).

Useful Links

PCBR Player Improvement Thread: https://projectcrusade.forumotion.com/t902-pcbr-player-improvement-thread

Tier Lists

What is a Tier List?

ssbwiki.com wrote:: In gaming, a tier list is a list that ranks all characters in order of their potential to win under tournament conditions, assuming equal skill on the part of each player, based on analysis of the metagame, among other factors.

The metagame of each game in the Super Smash Bros. series encompasses all the currently known techniques and strategies that have proven useful during tournament matches, thus, the tier list for each game ranks and measures the expected competitive performance of every character, based upon analysis of these techniques and strategies. The most widely accepted tier lists in the English-speaking community are those produced by the Smash Back Room.

SSBM Back Room wrote:: A tier list is, in essence, a "prediction" list as to how any given character will fare in a competitive setting. We naturally assume top level of play.

v0.8.4 Tier List [Outdated]

Spoiler:

v0.7 [Outdated]

Spoiler:

Tournament Rules (v0.9)

Unity Ruleset

Spoiler:

Advanced Techniques and Strategies

[AT] = Advanced Technique
[AS] = Advanced Strategy

General Techniques and Strategies

Character Specific Techniques and Strategies

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Updated with Advanced Techniques and Strategies

1247

cool stuff I think I'll direct the beginners I face here to boost up their skills

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Updated with Lucario guide

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In your AT by character section you should add Lucario's other AT's as well, all of which are listed in my guide. The only one not specific to Lucario is Special Sliding.

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OP updated with the Unity Rulest for v0.8.3

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Updated the ruelsets because 10 stages were missing from the banned list and Onett was on the list. Lol.

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Major Update

The first tier list of v0.8.4 is up! Check out the Tier List section in the OP. If you don't believe in tier lists or don't know what they are, read the new "What is a Tier List?" section.

The PCBR has put a lot of time and effort into this tier list, and we are continuing to work towards the second version of this tier list featuring individual match-up based rankings for the utmost accuracy. Around that time we will also release the full Match-Up chart for all characters.

Feel free to use this thread for discussing the tier list or anything else in the OP!

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Very nice.

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NEW

0.9 Tournament Ruleset added! This will be the standard ruleset to be used in online (or local) tournaments.

Level 6 CPU 829 Dr.CanadianBacon

Aw, I like Crusade airdodge more than Melee Razz

I guess this means no Super-Bowser. Now I have Less-Super-Bowser.
But this'll do fine. I just have a question to why Flat Zone 3 is a Starter? I don't have time to check it without hazards, but it has Walk-Off's, does it not?

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Without hazards flatzone 3 changes drastically. See for yourself

Level 6 CPU 804 Ask in 20 years.

Choosing an air dodge from another game over an air dodge designed for this one -- imo anyway -- was a bad choice by the balance team. What was the conjecture for choosing Melee AD?

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Because Crusade air dodge can be considered to be in it's beta form. It needs adjustments in length for each character individually rather than one set length. This affects balance greatly and makes certain characters WAY better than they would otherwise be, to an extent that some characters dont get. It benefits some characters more than others and neither the air dodge nor individual characters were balanced to compensate this. It's cool and fun but it's horribly unfair depending on the character using it.

Level 6 CPU 829 Dr.CanadianBacon

Perfect Hell wrote:: Because Crusade air dodge can be considered to be in it's beta form. It needs adjustments in length for each character individually rather than one set length. This affects balance greatly and makes certain characters WAY better than they would otherwise be, to an extent that some characters dont get. It benefits some characters more than others and neither the air dodge nor individual characters were balanced to compensate this. It's cool and fun but it's horribly unfair depending on the character using it.

Thats a good point. Using the Crusade air dodge as a really fast character wouldn't benefit as much I suppose, while using it as a heavy hitter would be extremely overpowered, like Ganondorf or Bowser. It's a good choice I'd say.

Level 4 CPU 115

Disappointed Melee Dodge has been picked over Crusade dodge

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Crusade dodge has not been refined yet. Every character dashes the same distance rather than based around their weight and air speed. As such, it poorly affects character balance. For example, Bowser becomes instant god-tier. For now, Melee dodge is the most stable type and the type balancing has been focused around.

Of course, the ruleset while standardized is not infallible. If you feel like running a tournament on Crusade dodge, by all means go ahead.

Level 6 CPU 873 XMister_RatburnX

Honestly, these rules are pretty decent. The suicide rule makes sense; considering how fast paced this game is, nobody should immediately rely upon them.

If I had any advice, it'd be to update with some more stuff on 2v2, such as banned teams and illegal strategies.

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Banned teams? The only ever banned team was Double MK in Brawl, I doubt we have anything like that in need of a ban.

Level 6 CPU 873 XMister_RatburnX

Perfect Hell wrote:: Banned teams? The only ever banned team was Double MK in Brawl, I doubt we have anything like that in need of a ban.

Well, you may be right, but I doubt that much research has been conducted over 2v2, and I'm sure through some test, we'll find something a bit more than just noteworthy. If we intend to keep friendly fire on, imagine the possibilities with Phoenix's Briefcase. That's just the beginning, too. Not only can Lucario's anubis strategy return, but it can apply to Pichu now, with his new SideB.

Level 4 CPU 115

Petty is god tier

Level 6 CPU 804 Ask in 20 years.

Quote :: If the match goes to sudden death due to a suicide move (Ganon’s side-B, Kirbycide, etc.), the person initiating the attack loses.

Just noticed this rule when looking it over. While all (ALL) Smash rulesets give suicide move initiators the win, why do the opposite?

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Doqtor Kirby wrote:

Quote :: If the match goes to sudden death due to a suicide move (Ganon’s side-B, Kirbycide, etc.), the person initiating the attack loses.

Just noticed this rule when looking it over. While all (ALL) Smash rulesets give suicide move initiators the win, why do the opposite?

This forces characters like Kirby and Ganon to actually outsmart the opponent, Kirby can win at 150% while the other player has 0%, and let's face it, it's kinda lame it's legal.

Level 9 CPU 2072 C-Mill24

Johnny64 wrote:

Doqtor Kirby wrote:

Quote :: If the match goes to sudden death due to a suicide move (Ganon’s side-B, Kirbycide, etc.), the person initiating the attack loses.

Just noticed this rule when looking it over. While all (ALL) Smash rulesets give suicide move initiators the win, why do the opposite?

This forces characters like Kirby and Ganon to actually outsmart the opponent, Kirby can win at 150% while the other player has 0%, and let's face it, it's kinda lame it's legal.

Chu Dat's entire style with PM Kirby

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We're all in agreement that the official ruling on it is pretty terrible. If you're losing with one of those characters, it allows you to camp an edge and win, kind of similar to the reasoning behind banning walk-off stages. It also makes it possible for those characters to win by gimping on first stock and then suicide camping for the remainder of the game. It's lame, unfair, unearned, and the fact that it's legal in the usual competitive play only says to me that it's been overlooked and not yet abused to the point where it had to be banned, but it IS banworthy.

On a side note, the original idea was to have suicides go to a 1 stock rematch, and suiciding in THAT game would get you the loss. This was deemed unnecessarily complex and was left at the simplified rule.

Level 6 CPU 804 Ask in 20 years.

Honestly--unless you do not know the opposing character--if you get caught in one of those suicide moves, you have been outplayed. That is the conjecture behind the official games, and every suicide move is easily punishable/avoidable. The only exception is Kirby, and his is mashable.

Level 9 CPU 2072 C-Mill24

Doqtor Kirby wrote:: Honestly--unless you do not know the opposing character--if you get caught in one of those suicide moves, you have been outplayed. That is the conjecture behind the official games, and every suicide move is easily punishable/avoidable. The only exception is Kirby, and his is mashable.

Even though Kirby's is mashable, if you get caught off stage as a fast faller or character with poor recovery, you aren't coming back.

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C_Mill24 wrote:

Doqtor Kirby wrote:: Honestly--unless you do not know the opposing character--if you get caught in one of those suicide moves, you have been outplayed. That is the conjecture behind the official games, and every suicide move is easily punishable/avoidable. The only exception is Kirby, and his is mashable.

Even though Kirby's is mashable, if you get caught off stage as a fast faller or character with poor recovery, you aren't coming back.

Also, Kirby WANTS you to Mash, It's more benefitial to Kirby that you get out, cause he can still come back, possibly spike you, and still have a lead with a stock or more. With this rule, if Kirby tries to Inhale, and the opponent doesn't mash out, it counts as a loss to Kirby, unless Kirby/the oponnent has more than one stock

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Doqtor Kirby wrote:: Honestly--unless you do not know the opposing character--if you get caught in one of those suicide moves, you have been outplayed. That is the conjecture behind the official games, and every suicide move is easily punishable/avoidable. The only exception is Kirby, and his is mashable.

You also have to think within the context of Crusade. Rayman? High percent DK cargo? There might be others as well. Getting killed by Rayman's side B is far from being outplayed.

Also in Crusade we've made inhale Kirbyciding basically impossible, BUT fthrow/bthrow suicide is possible. Getting killed by forward or back throw is certainly not being "outplayed", especially if you don't have projectiles and kirby decides to camp near an edge.

Level 3 CPU 93 WulfenGale

Not necessarily true.

Most people will easily be able to avoid this.

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