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 Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion

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Perfect Hell



  Evil Ryu
  8819

PostSubject: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:01 am



"Falcon, you've come to die? I needn't have wasted time looking for you then!"

Black Shadow is the main villain of the F-Zero series, a long running Nintendo first party series.

Appearances:
- F-Zero X (1998)
- F-Zero GX (2003)
- F-Zero GP Legend (game) (2003)
- F-Zero GP Legend (anime) (2003)
- F-Zero Climax (2004)

Background

Black Shadow is a self-proclaimed master of evil and leads an expansive organization known as Dark Million, consisting of big names such as Zoda and Miss Killer. He is the naturally sworn archenemy of Captain Falcon, the rock-solid bounty hunter who has taken in more of his trusted underlings than he can even begin to count, putting an endless string of his carefully thought-out plans to ruin. His overall origin is unknown other than that he's an extremely powerful and strong-willed entity with the unstoppable ambition to take over the Universe and enslave everyone in it. To get closer to this goal, Black Shadow knows that the only way this is going to happen is if Captain Falcon is out of the picture. And since the only way that this virtually omniverous villian can track him down is in the F-Zero Grand Prix circuit, his only choice was to have his minions craft a large and deadly machine for him, the Black Bull, and enter the races himself with the intention of killing the legendary bounty hunter over live race feeds spanning the entire galaxy and beyond!

What does he bring to Crusade?

- F-Zero is sorely lacking in reps
- He's got a plethora of unique abilities not seen on any of our other characters.  Check out the moveset below!

Moveset
Spoiler:
 


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Last edited by Perfect Hell on Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:42 pm; edited 6 times in total
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Spoon300
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:07 am

First Goroh, now Black Shadow, Wow! Keep this up and we may even see Jodi Summer on the boards!
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Gamey DJ
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:05 am

The picture is broken for me.
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HypeConduit
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:20 am

Gamey DJ wrote:
The picture is broken for me.
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TaXMaN
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:14 am

I love the moveset! Never played F-Zero but the moveset leaves me no choice but to hand my vote to Black Shadow. Great job, PH!
Also
Quote :
The picture is broken for me.
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Roy
Level 7 CPU


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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:27 am

I like this moveset. Nicely done. The only complaint I have is that he doesn't do more with the clones or mimicry - I feel like that's unique enough for a special move.

Supporting, definitely. This is the F-Zero rep this game needs.
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Dustination



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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:34 am

Spoon300 wrote:
First Goroh, now Black Shadow, Wow! Keep this up and we may even see Jodi Summer on the boards!

This doesn't mean anything

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Perfect Hell



  Evil Ryu
  8819

PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:22 am

Which picture is broken, top or in the moveset?
Both work fine for me.
EDIT
as for the moveset, any ideas to get more/better clones in or better use of mimicry?
I could imagine neutral Special or up special becoming Mimicry, and he performs that special of his opponent's. This would be overbearing to code though, the reason i have it as a taunt is because copying taunts requires minimal work while copying B moves is a ton of work.

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Last edited by Perfect Hell on Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:23 am

Perfect Hell wrote:
Which picture is broken, top or in the moveset?
Both work fine for me.
The top one.
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:43 am

Does it work now?

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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:44 am

Yup, looks good.
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:50 am

Any ideas on mimicry?

For clones, they could be added to his neutral special such that they appear ahead of him and do his neutral special, and it's last hit sends towards him.  Or perhaps a clone comes out of the vortex and runs forward attempting to grab an opponent and either stun them or hurl them back towards Black Shadow.

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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:02 pm

Hm... actually can't think of anything for mimicry. Maybe choosing a random special from a set could work, but would seem awkward.

That could work for his neutral special. I feel like he could pull off something better, though... What if he could summon a temporary clone that stands still and attacks when you do? Like a limited version of Luma.
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GoldenYuiitusin
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:29 pm

Sorry if I don't bring anything of value to the discussion, but man, I would love to see Black Shadow happen.

I'd even be willing to voice him in a heartbeat.
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VultureDuck
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:25 pm

I would like to see what Golden can do to voice Black Shadow. His victory quote might be the one from the anime before he got falcon punched.

So yeah, support.
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:16 pm

Roy wrote:
Hm... actually can't think of anything for mimicry. Maybe choosing a random special from a set could work, but would seem awkward.

That could work for his neutral special. I feel like he could pull off something better, though... What if he could summon a temporary clone that stands still and attacks when you do? Like a limited version of Luma.

I like to think of clones for him more along the lines of Noob Saibot.  I also like what SSF2 did with Naruto, particularly the side special.  I'd like to take inspiration from these sources on clones done right.  His side tilt and getup attack are very much like how Noob uses his clones, my idea with Neutral special would fill the remaining archetype of a clone who holds an opponent still or hits them back towards the caster, either case you get a clone starting a combo for the master.

EDIT
Expanded on up throw and neutral special on the OP.

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GoldenYuiitusin
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:45 pm

VultureDuck wrote:
I would like to see what Golden can do to voice Black Shadow. His victory quote might be the one from the anime before he got falcon punched.

So yeah, support.
I've already got Porky going "I will not die!", it seems redundant for me to make Black Shadow say it too...
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VultureDuck
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:08 am

Kelp-Thing wrote:
VultureDuck wrote:
I would like to see what Golden can do to voice Black Shadow. His victory quote might be the one from the anime before he got falcon punched.

So yeah, support.
I've already got Porky going "I will not die!", it seems redundant for me to make Black Shadow say it too...
I was thinking about it too, but I thought it wouldn't be that bad.

Thought it would be a cute little reference, but it nothing special since Porky took the line.
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:58 pm

Perfect Hell wrote:
I like to think of clones for him more along the lines of Noob Saibot.  I also like what SSF2 did with Naruto, particularly the side special.  I'd like to take inspiration from these sources on clones done right.  His side tilt and getup attack are very much like how Noob uses his clones, my idea with Neutral special would fill the remaining archetype of a clone who holds an opponent still or hits them back towards the caster, either case you get a clone starting a combo for the master.

EDIT
Expanded on up throw and neutral special on the OP.
Never heard of Saibot... *Googles*

Oh, never played Mortal Kombat. I guess that's a good way of using the clones. Seems fine to me, no complaints.
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:15 pm

Im starting to think now that the new purpose of neutral special is detracting from what the neutral special actually was, a prominent reference to a powerful vortex attack he used in the anime.  Almost a staple must-have attack for any fan of his.  But, i do like the uniqueness of the new clone-based Nspecial.  On the other hand, the function of this new Nspecial is actually very similar to the side special.

So to remedy this, perhaps the clone summoned in side tilt should hit up and towards Black Shadow, using the horns to lift the opponent and throw them through the air.  This would fulfill the archetype neutral special was trying to fulfill in a more unique way from side B.  And the archetype side tilt had been trying to fill before is already being handled by down b (a summoned spectre keeping black shadow himself safe and away from the combat).

So to sum up, Side tilt would have it's knockback re-tooled to be similar to Naruto's side special in SSF2, or basically a clone who's attack sends the opponent towards Black Shadow.  Neutral special would revert to what i originally had, a multi-hitting vortex in front of him that ends in an explosion.  And overall, his ranged attacks would serve these functions;
- Side tilt sends out a projectile that pulls users towards himself for a free combo followup started at range
- Neutral special covers the area immediately next to him, protecting him from attackers and projectiles
- Side special hits an opponent at a distance and locks them in place
- Down special hits an opponent at a distance and places a mine on them, forcing them to now stay moving or face the explosion.  If they choose to run straight at him from this, he is prepared to defend himself with Neutral special and the rest of his normal attacks.  He can also attempt to hit them with Side B, forcing the explosion from the mine

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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:39 am

Full support here, that's all I can add.

Personally I feel it a tad bit awkward that he summons Blood Falcon for his D-Spec, seeing as the job could probably be done relatively similarly by himself (placing the detonator, that is) and just having another random character pop up seems... jarring to me.

It's just a nitpick, but... I feel like I'd prefer having *just* Black Shadow when I pick Black Shadow. Just my personal gut feeling. : /
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Falcon8r



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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:04 am

I think summoning Blood Falcon in general is a cool concept. I agree it seems like overkill to have him just plant a mine, but then again it all boils down to how the move works in practice. Plus that doesn't have to be the only move where Blood Falcon appears.
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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:06 am

Falcon8r wrote:
I think summoning Blood Falcon in general is a cool concept. I agree it seems like overkill to have him just plant a mine, but then again it all boils down to how the move works in practice. Plus that doesn't have to be the only move where Blood Falcon appears.

So what, a "Falcon Hunt Duo" or something? ...Maybe just for some of his grabs or miscellaneous. Like his U-Throw, or victory animations, or maybe a cameo in his Final Smash.
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Dry



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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:16 am

I agree with some of the points just made. Black Shadow is better off just being Black Shadow; summoning Blood Falcon feels like overrepping, like trying to put all of Mario's suits into his moveset. And, if there has to be Blood Falcon, it's also bad to have him do nothing but plant a mine.
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Falcon8r



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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:19 am

Maybe he could work kinda like Zelda's Phantom Slash?
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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:25 am

Falcon8r wrote:
Maybe he could work kinda like Zelda's Phantom Slash?

That actually seems like something that'd be a good inclusion. ^_^

Perhaps a combo that changes depending on charge, that ends in him grabbing them and placing a bomb? ...Or perhaps the bomb is instead part of a grab, albeit with less potency (such as a smaller timer than if it was a Special move)?
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:30 am

Possibly. Although there's nothing random about it, that move is literally laid out exactly the same as what he did in the game.

Or perhaps, as it was in the game, detonator should be added to side b. When an opponent gets hit by the ring, Black Shadow then extracts blood Falcon from their body (like he did to Falcon) (or perhaps he should summon a clone of the affected character in a different palette?) who then places the detonator on them, which works as Down B described after they are released from stun.

This would free up Down B, allowing a clone based special attack and for neutral special to return to his semi-famous Vortex attack from the anime.

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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:33 am

Perfect Hell wrote:
Possibly.  Although there's nothing random about it, that move is literally laid out exactly the same as what he did in the game.

Or perhaps, as it was in the game, detonator should be added to side b.  When an opponent gets hit by the ring, Black Shadow then extracts blood Falcon from their body (like he did to Falcon) (or perhaps he should summon a clone of the affected character in a different palette?) who then places the detonator on them, which works as Down B described after they are released from stun.

This would free up Down B, allowing a clone based special attack and for neutral special to return to his semi-famous Vortex attack from the anime.

I like this too. Except for the characting cloning part... It makes sense, but something about extracting a character's DNA/Blood and creating a split-second clone of them to attack them with a bomb seems... A bit 'off' for me personally, at least for a Smash game. Imagine that happening to Mario, for example; Doesn't that unnerve you slightly? Plus it just plain wouldn't make sense for a few characters, like ROB and Mega Man, who don't have DNA to speak of and thus would usually require assembly and couldn't be genetically bred in the blink of an eye.

I feel like solely including Blood Falcon in that move would both better represent F-Zero *and* avoid any squick potential.
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:54 am

You're right about the cloning, and in fact Black Shadow doesnt create Blood Falcon in that scene, the guy already existed, Black Shadow is just able to summon him at will. Why he came out of the Captain though, idk.

So yeah i'll stick to my idea there and leave it at blood falcon.

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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Black Shadow (F-Zero) Discussion   Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:55 am

Perfect Hell wrote:
You're right about the cloning, and in fact Black Shadow doesnt create Blood Falcon in that scene, the guy already existed, Black Shadow is just able to summon him at will.  Why he came out of the Captain though, idk.

So yeah i'll stick to my idea there and leave it at blood falcon.

Arright, then! ^_^ So... D-Spec. Any ideas?
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