Subject: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:45 pm
This thread's OP will contain Tier Lists, Tournament rules, and maybe some other PCBR information. Anything the PCBR decides to make public, I will put here. These things have been posted other places in the forum, but this thread will make it easy to find everything (especially for tournament rules, copy paste from this thread for your tournaments).
Useful Links
PCBR Player Improvement Thread: https://projectcrusade.forumotion.com/t902-pcbr-player-improvement-thread
Tier Lists
What is a Tier List?
ssbwiki.com wrote:
In gaming, a tier list is a list that ranks all characters in order of their potential to win under tournament conditions, assuming equal skill on the part of each player, based on analysis of the metagame, among other factors.
The metagame of each game in the Super Smash Bros. series encompasses all the currently known techniques and strategies that have proven useful during tournament matches, thus, the tier list for each game ranks and measures the expected competitive performance of every character, based upon analysis of these techniques and strategies. The most widely accepted tier lists in the English-speaking community are those produced by the Smash Back Room.
SSBM Back Room wrote:
A tier list is, in essence, a "prediction" list as to how any given character will fare in a competitive setting. We naturally assume top level of play.
v0.8.4 Tier List [Outdated]
Spoiler:
S 1. Falco 2. Mr. Game&Watch 3. Fox 4. Jigglypuff 5/6. Captain Falcon/Sonic
A+ 7/8. Peach/Krystal 9. Samus 10. Meta Knight 11. Mewtwo 12. Saki 13. Gooey 14. Geno 15. Mach Rider 16. Mega Man
A 17. Marth 18. Lucario 19. Lucas 20. Yoshi 21. Evil Ryu 22. Shadow 23. Luigi 24. Ness 25. Tails
B 26. Link 27. Duck Hunt Dog 28. Toon Link 29. Knuckles 30. Kirby 31. Rayman 32. Wario
C 33. Porky 34. Ridley 35. Weegee 36. Mario 37. Goku 38. Ristar 39. Zero Suit Samus 40. Pikachu
D 41. Donkey Kong 42. Bomberman 43. Toad 44. Snake 45. Ryu 46. Chun-Li 47. Waluigi
v0.7 [Outdated]
Spoiler:
S-Tier 1. Goku 2. Mr. Game&Watch 3. Fox McCloud 4. Meta Knight
A-Tier 5. Gooey 6. Saki 7. Krystal
B-Tier 8. Peach 9. Megaman 10. Lucario 11. Toon Link 12. Tails 13. Zero Suit Samus 14. Knuckles
C-Tier 15. Lucas 16. Kirby 17. Yoshi 18. Sonic 19. Luigi
E-Tier 26. Mario 27. Samus 28. Chun-Li 29. Evil Ryu
F-Tier 30. Captain Falcon 31. Ness 32. Toad 33. Link
G-Tier 34. Snake 35. Bomberman 36. Pikachu
Tournament Rules (v0.9)
Unity Ruleset
Spoiler:
Legal Stage List
Starters:
Flatzone3 Outer Space Battlefield Final Destination Planet's Core
Counterpick:
Suzaku Castle Kongo Jungle Q*Bert (DOUBLES ONLY) Tetris (DOUBLES ONLY) District Court (DOUBLES ONLY)
General Rules
Items are set to OFF Hazards are set to OFF Stock: 4 Time: 8 Final Smash: OFF Friendly Fire: ON Airdodge: MELEE Individual settings: Default
Double Blind: Either player may request that a double blind selection occur. In this situation, a 3rd party should be told, in secret, each of player’s choices for the first round. Both players are to then select their first round character, with the 3rd party validating that the character selected is the same as their word. DSR: A player/team cannot counter pick to any stage they have won on during that set. Gentleman’s Clause: Any stage may be played on if both players agree to it. This rule takes priority over DSR. Players may NOT agree to change the number of matches to be played. If time runs out, the person with the most stock left (or least % if they are equal) wins. If the % is equal as well, play a 1 stock 3 minute match, same characters and stage. Pausing the game shall only be legal while either player remains upon their OWN respawn platform, and only for the purpose of summoning a tournament official or in the case of a controller malfunction. All other pauses will incur a stock loss to the player who pauses the game. Quitting the match early will result in loss of match for the quitter. If the match goes to sudden death due to a suicide move (Ganon’s side-B, Kirbycide, etc.), the person initiating the attack loses.
How to Play a Set
1. Players select their characters. Either player may elect to Double Blind 2. Use Stage Striking to determine the first stage Stage Striking: Players eliminate stages from the Starters list until there is one stage remaining
Players strike stages in this order:
Strike Player 1 Player 2 Strike 1 * Strike 2 * Strike 3 * Strike 4 *
3. The players play the first match of the set 4. Winning player of the preceding match bans a stage/stages (if applicable). For Best of 3 sets, each player gets 1 stage ban. For Best of 5 sets, there are no stage bans. 5. The losing player of the preceding match picks a stage for the next match. 6. The winning player of the preceding match may choose to change characters. 7. The losing player of the preceding match may choose to change characters. 8. The next match is played.
Repeat Steps 4 through 8 for all subsequent matches until the set is complete.
Sets are played Best of 3 matches. Finals are played Best of 5 matches.
Last edited by Perfect Hell on Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:18 pm; edited 12 times in total
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:36 pm
Updated with Advanced Techniques and Strategies
Traweezie
1247
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:37 pm
cool stuff I think I'll direct the beginners I face here to boost up their skills
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:45 am
Updated with Lucario guide
MercuryHg34
3883
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:08 am
In your AT by character section you should add Lucario's other AT's as well, all of which are listed in my guide. The only one not specific to Lucario is Special Sliding.
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:27 pm
OP updated with the Unity Rulest for v0.8.3
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:47 am
Updated the ruelsets because 10 stages were missing from the banned list and Onett was on the list. Lol.
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:28 pm
Major Update
The first tier list of v0.8.4 is up! Check out the Tier List section in the OP. If you don't believe in tier lists or don't know what they are, read the new "What is a Tier List?" section.
The PCBR has put a lot of time and effort into this tier list, and we are continuing to work towards the second version of this tier list featuring individual match-up based rankings for the utmost accuracy. Around that time we will also release the full Match-Up chart for all characters.
Feel free to use this thread for discussing the tier list or anything else in the OP!
MercuryHg34
3883
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:26 am
Very nice.
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:30 pm
NEW
0.9 Tournament Ruleset added! This will be the standard ruleset to be used in online (or local) tournaments.
Dr. CanadianBacon Level 6 CPU
829 Dr.CanadianBacon
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:34 pm
Aw, I like Crusade airdodge more than Melee
I guess this means no Super-Bowser. Now I have Less-Super-Bowser. But this'll do fine. I just have a question to why Flat Zone 3 is a Starter? I don't have time to check it without hazards, but it has Walk-Off's, does it not?
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:25 pm
Without hazards flatzone 3 changes drastically. See for yourself
Doq Level 6 CPU
804 Ask in 20 years.
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:19 pm
Choosing an air dodge from another game over an air dodge designed for this one -- imo anyway -- was a bad choice by the balance team. What was the conjecture for choosing Melee AD?
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:14 am
Because Crusade air dodge can be considered to be in it's beta form. It needs adjustments in length for each character individually rather than one set length. This affects balance greatly and makes certain characters WAY better than they would otherwise be, to an extent that some characters dont get. It benefits some characters more than others and neither the air dodge nor individual characters were balanced to compensate this. It's cool and fun but it's horribly unfair depending on the character using it.
Dr. CanadianBacon Level 6 CPU
829 Dr.CanadianBacon
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:16 am
Perfect Hell wrote:
Because Crusade air dodge can be considered to be in it's beta form. It needs adjustments in length for each character individually rather than one set length. This affects balance greatly and makes certain characters WAY better than they would otherwise be, to an extent that some characters dont get. It benefits some characters more than others and neither the air dodge nor individual characters were balanced to compensate this. It's cool and fun but it's horribly unfair depending on the character using it.
Thats a good point. Using the Crusade air dodge as a really fast character wouldn't benefit as much I suppose, while using it as a heavy hitter would be extremely overpowered, like Ganondorf or Bowser. It's a good choice I'd say.
JMan Level 4 CPU
115
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:38 pm
Disappointed Melee Dodge has been picked over Crusade dodge
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:37 am
Crusade dodge has not been refined yet. Every character dashes the same distance rather than based around their weight and air speed. As such, it poorly affects character balance. For example, Bowser becomes instant god-tier. For now, Melee dodge is the most stable type and the type balancing has been focused around.
Of course, the ruleset while standardized is not infallible. If you feel like running a tournament on Crusade dodge, by all means go ahead.
HypeConduit Level 6 CPU
873 XMister_RatburnX
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:34 pm
Honestly, these rules are pretty decent. The suicide rule makes sense; considering how fast paced this game is, nobody should immediately rely upon them.
If I had any advice, it'd be to update with some more stuff on 2v2, such as banned teams and illegal strategies.
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:10 pm
Banned teams? The only ever banned team was Double MK in Brawl, I doubt we have anything like that in need of a ban.
HypeConduit Level 6 CPU
873 XMister_RatburnX
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:41 pm
Perfect Hell wrote:
Banned teams? The only ever banned team was Double MK in Brawl, I doubt we have anything like that in need of a ban.
Well, you may be right, but I doubt that much research has been conducted over 2v2, and I'm sure through some test, we'll find something a bit more than just noteworthy. If we intend to keep friendly fire on, imagine the possibilities with Phoenix's Briefcase. That's just the beginning, too. Not only can Lucario's anubis strategy return, but it can apply to Pichu now, with his new SideB.
JMan Level 4 CPU
115
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:36 pm
Petty is god tier
Doq Level 6 CPU
804 Ask in 20 years.
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:33 pm
Quote :
If the match goes to sudden death due to a suicide move (Ganon’s side-B, Kirbycide, etc.), the person initiating the attack loses.
Just noticed this rule when looking it over. While all (ALL) Smash rulesets give suicide move initiators the win, why do the opposite?
Johnny64
1272
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:46 pm
Doqtor Kirby wrote:
Quote :
If the match goes to sudden death due to a suicide move (Ganon’s side-B, Kirbycide, etc.), the person initiating the attack loses.
Just noticed this rule when looking it over. While all (ALL) Smash rulesets give suicide move initiators the win, why do the opposite?
This forces characters like Kirby and Ganon to actually outsmart the opponent, Kirby can win at 150% while the other player has 0%, and let's face it, it's kinda lame it's legal.
C_Mill24 Level 9 CPU
2072 C-Mill24
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:39 am
Johnny64 wrote:
Doqtor Kirby wrote:
Quote :
If the match goes to sudden death due to a suicide move (Ganon’s side-B, Kirbycide, etc.), the person initiating the attack loses.
Just noticed this rule when looking it over. While all (ALL) Smash rulesets give suicide move initiators the win, why do the opposite?
This forces characters like Kirby and Ganon to actually outsmart the opponent, Kirby can win at 150% while the other player has 0%, and let's face it, it's kinda lame it's legal.
Chu Dat's entire style with PM Kirby
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:14 am
We're all in agreement that the official ruling on it is pretty terrible. If you're losing with one of those characters, it allows you to camp an edge and win, kind of similar to the reasoning behind banning walk-off stages. It also makes it possible for those characters to win by gimping on first stock and then suicide camping for the remainder of the game. It's lame, unfair, unearned, and the fact that it's legal in the usual competitive play only says to me that it's been overlooked and not yet abused to the point where it had to be banned, but it IS banworthy.
On a side note, the original idea was to have suicides go to a 1 stock rematch, and suiciding in THAT game would get you the loss. This was deemed unnecessarily complex and was left at the simplified rule.
Doq Level 6 CPU
804 Ask in 20 years.
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:11 am
Honestly--unless you do not know the opposing character--if you get caught in one of those suicide moves, you have been outplayed. That is the conjecture behind the official games, and every suicide move is easily punishable/avoidable. The only exception is Kirby, and his is mashable.
C_Mill24 Level 9 CPU
2072 C-Mill24
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:45 pm
Doqtor Kirby wrote:
Honestly--unless you do not know the opposing character--if you get caught in one of those suicide moves, you have been outplayed. That is the conjecture behind the official games, and every suicide move is easily punishable/avoidable. The only exception is Kirby, and his is mashable.
Even though Kirby's is mashable, if you get caught off stage as a fast faller or character with poor recovery, you aren't coming back.
Johnny64
1272
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:57 pm
C_Mill24 wrote:
Doqtor Kirby wrote:
Honestly--unless you do not know the opposing character--if you get caught in one of those suicide moves, you have been outplayed. That is the conjecture behind the official games, and every suicide move is easily punishable/avoidable. The only exception is Kirby, and his is mashable.
Even though Kirby's is mashable, if you get caught off stage as a fast faller or character with poor recovery, you aren't coming back.
Also, Kirby WANTS you to Mash, It's more benefitial to Kirby that you get out, cause he can still come back, possibly spike you, and still have a lead with a stock or more. With this rule, if Kirby tries to Inhale, and the opponent doesn't mash out, it counts as a loss to Kirby, unless Kirby/the oponnent has more than one stock
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:49 pm
Doqtor Kirby wrote:
Honestly--unless you do not know the opposing character--if you get caught in one of those suicide moves, you have been outplayed. That is the conjecture behind the official games, and every suicide move is easily punishable/avoidable. The only exception is Kirby, and his is mashable.
You also have to think within the context of Crusade. Rayman? High percent DK cargo? There might be others as well. Getting killed by Rayman's side B is far from being outplayed.
Also in Crusade we've made inhale Kirbyciding basically impossible, BUT fthrow/bthrow suicide is possible. Getting killed by forward or back throw is certainly not being "outplayed", especially if you don't have projectiles and kirby decides to camp near an edge.
TSF.Strife Level 3 CPU
93 WulfenGale
Subject: Re: PCBR Competitive Information Thread Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:05 am