Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King
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Chaotic Chao Level 4 CPU
249 ChaotixChao
Subject: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:01 pm
Seriously, nobody's made a new Heihachi thread yet? Sigh...well, looks like it's up to me.
Who is Heihachi Mishima?
Heihachi Mishima is one of the main characters of the "Tekken" series of fighting games, also known as the best-selling fighting game franchise of all time (with Tekken 2 being the single best-selling fighting game to date). Initially serving as the series' main antagonist, Heihachi's role swaps regularly from that of the main host and villain to a contender in the King of Iron Fist Tournaments which are held in each game. If one doesn't count the original Arcade release of Tekken 1 (boss only), he (alongside Nina Williams, Yoshimitsu, and Paul Phoenix, fun fact) is one of the only characters to be playable in every single Tekken game (and is a controllable character in every game regardless, by the AI or otherwise).
Why Heihachi? Heihachi is one of the most important characters in the Tekken series and, while arguably second only to Jin and/or Kazuya, they, unlike Heihachi, have not appeared in every game in the series. While not a Nintendo character who doesn't regularly appear on any Nintendo consoles, Heihachi's relevance and popularity still make him a very valid choice (even Sakurai considered him for Smash 4, as I'm sure many of you know). But, for what it's worth Heihachi has appeared in Tekken Advance for the GBA and Tekken Tag Tournament 2 for the Wii U. In addition, he tends to represent Tekken in crossovers (Playstation All-Stars, Soul Calibur 2).
Okay then, on to the important thing. How would he fight? This is just a disclaimer: I've heard there's been talk of how Heihachi would play in the past, but I don't know anything about that (and couldn't find it) so I made this moveset from scratch, based only on his moveset from Tekken. Feel free to make suggestions, since this is all theoretical. Also, I've never played PSASBR, so if there are any ideas from that game that would work well, let me know (I notice a lot of similarities between that game's Heihachi and mine, at least, from footage).
If you've played Tekken, then you should know that, when it comes to comboing, juggles are the name of the game - hit your opponent with a good launcher, then unleash several attacks before they can hit the ground. I believe Heihachi should reflect this in his moveset to some extent. As for Heihachi himself, his moveset here is characterized by powerful punishers, good mixups, great hitstun, and a myriad of options up-close, meaning his playstyle is high on pressure and very aggressive, able to dish out high damage in no time and score kills rather easily. Additionally, a few of Heihachi's grounded moves can meteor, which will bounce his opponent off of the ground low enough for follow-ups if they do not tech (in Tekken 6 and Tag 2, this was called a "bound" state) and may KO if his foes are off-stage. However, Heihachi will need to get in particularly close to get anything going with his limited range, and his moves, while strong and high in combo potential, are easily punished if predicted. Also, his aerials are lackluster, much better at juggling from the ground (much like in Tekken)
Moveset (in spoilers, because it's LONG):
Spoiler:
I'll be referencing Heihachi's exact movelist from TTT2, numbers and all, so if you want a better visual idea, use this video for reference. Also, I may bring up Tekken's button notation from time to time, so use this page if you don't know even its simplest symbols.
Normals Jab: 003 Demon Slayer - punches twice, then spins and delivers a final, electric punch F-tilt: 040/041 Twin Hammers/ Twin Hammer Volley - punches with both hands, then follows up with two attacking chops; strong, but high startup, and the second hit is optional. Second hit would be very unsafe on shield. D-tilt: 027 Hammer Punch/Hammer Punch to Iron Hand - delivers a swift, hammering punch directly in front of him, then follows up with a more powerful, electrified punch with his other hand; works much like his f-tilt, but much faster and weaker. The first hit would probably be a weak spike. The "Hammer Punch to Iron Hand" follow up isn't in the video, but was present in Tekken 5 (for some reason); he can still preform "Iron Hand," however, move 057. U-tilt: 018 Right Splits Kick - a scissor kick much like Samus and C. Falcon's up-tilt; a somewhat strong meteor smash, but doesn't hit foes lying on the floor
Aerials (a few of his aerials here aren't in the video above, but are actually in the game as unlisted, generic moves) N-air: 013 Demon Scissors - spins around like a wheel in mid-air, kicking all around him F-air: 042 Hell Axle - kicks forward twice in mid-air; the first hit normally links into the second, and otherwise would do next to no damage and/or knockback B-air: 043 Wind Slicer - leaps forward and delivers a strong kick in front of him; in Smash, he'd just do this behind him instead. Does decent knockback D-air: U+1 - punches diagonally below him, much like Ryu's d-air, but less powerful U-air: U+4 - kicks diagonally upward in front of him; long range, but somewhat odd hitbox
Smashes F-Smash: 019 Chrome Dome - delivers a swift headbutt, knocking his opponent down to the floor; here, this would be his fastest smash attack and would deliver largely horizontal knockback, best used at the edge or otherwise somewhere low (honestly, there are a TON of F-Smash options and I just chose a random one) D-Smash: 065 Geta Stomp - electrifies his foot and powerfully slams it into the ground below him; this move normally has horrible range, but easily hits foes lying on the ground. His most situational, but also his most damaging smash attack. U-Smash: 044 Demon Uppercut - a very powerful uppercut with high vertical knockback, but huge endlag; mediocre range and very unsafe on block, but a very strong kill move
Throws Pummel: 071 Neck Breaker - grabs his opponent and basically gives them a bunch of electric noogies F-Throw: 079 Stone Head - headbutts his opponent; low knockback, high damage B-Throw: 080 Broken Toy - lifts the opponent up with one hand and throws them backward; high knockback, very low damage, good kill move D-Throw: 078 Fire Starter - a weaker headbutt that leaves the opponent standing after it hits; can follow up with another grab if the opponent doesn't react correctly U-Throw: 073 Power Bomb - jumps in the air with his opponent in hand, flips them, and slams them into the ground; low damage, but leaves opponent lying next to Heihachi, so it's good for follow-ups
Specials N-Special: 014 Demon Breath - strikes his opponent with two open palms extremely quickly; deals low damage and has bad range, but is very fast and has good knockback, and he can cancel most of his other attacks into it (such as his jab), making it an excellent combo finisher. If he presses the shield button before he attacks, he can cancel Demon Breath and quickly sidestep.
S-Special: Mishima Step - Heihachi ducks and steps forward; this move cannot be done in the air. Notice that, starting at 050, many of Heihachi's most famous moves can be executed after inputting Forward, Neutral, Down+Forward (official notation: f,N,d/f); here, his side special would essentially be this command, leading into several follow-up moves (somewhat like Link's Hidden Skills) after he presses Side+B: ---Neutral A or B: 051 Wind God Fist - preforms a swift uppercut, launching his opponent directly upward; a very fast move with extremely high hitstun, any good Heihachi player in Tekken (and thus, here) will want to land this as much as possible to start combos. Knockback should be low. If Heihachi presses A or B early enough on the correct frame(s), he will preform the Electric Wind God Fist instead, which is essentially the same attack with electric properties and a faster recovery time (this is actually a thing in Tekken, and the pros spam it...a lot). ---Up A or B: 050 Dragon Uppercut - winds up and jumps, delivering a powerful, launching uppercut; deals great damage and knockback, but has high lag both starting and ending. This is much stronger than his U-Special version (see below) ---Down+A or B: 054/055/056 Spinning Demon Uppercut/Tsunami Kick/Spinning Demon - preforms a spinning sweep kick. Depending on what buttons are pressed after the initial Down+A, he will follow up with either ------Up+A or B: Spinning Demon Uppercut (basically cancels into Dragon Uppercut) ------Delayed A or B: Tsunami Kick (basically cancels into U-tilt) ------Down/Neutral A or B: Spinning Demon (two more sweeps) ---meaning this move would be great for mixups. ---Alternatively, Heihachi could, like Ryu, preform these moves by actually pressing f,N,d/f in Crusade. This could either A) give him another move for his side special or B) power up his Mishima Step moves, just like Ryu.
D-Special: 020 Raijin Stance - strikes a pose which, like his S-Special, leads into more options: ---021 Fusatsujin Hasaiken - delivers a quick, powerful chop with good horizontal knockback ---022 Raijin's Wrath - a punch followed by a strong downwards hammer punch; unsafe on block, but the second hit meteor smashes ---023 Lightning Bolt - winds up and delivers a single powerful electric punch; has huge starting lag, but deals high stun and no knockback, guaranteeing a follow up attack ---Of note is that, unlike his S-Special, Heihachi is stationary when preforming this move and all of its follow up attacks.
U-Special: 050 Dragon Uppercut - Like Ryu's Shoryuken, Heihachi delivers an uppercut, launching him upwards in mid-air; compared to Shoryuken, this would travel more horizontal distance, but less vertical distance (such is the case in Tekken). Compared to his Mishima Step version, this move would be rather weak when used on the ground and much more powerful in the air.
Final Smash: I have two ideas for this. Not sure which is better. Idea 1: 067 10-Hit Combo 1 - Heihachi preforms an one of Tekken's iconic 10-hit combos on his opponent (and anyone else unlucky enough to get stuck in it). He will preform all the hits of the combo whether or not anyone is caught in it, during which he will be invincible. Idea 2: Rage Art - Heihachi preforms his rage art from Tekken 7 on one character, if he doesn't miss. Unlike Idea 1, if Heihachi misses the initial hit of this attack, he won't preform it at all (skip to 3:30):
Taunts I've only got one idea for this one: 066 Auger: Heihachi leans forward like he's about to attack, but totally doesn't. Also, his body gets covered in electricity for...some reason. It's the only in-game taunt he has in Tekken.
That moveset took a couple hours of research to figure out, so I hope all of you who bother to read it will like at least most of it =S
Last edited by Chaotic Chao on Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:08 pm; edited 8 times in total
Lego Shaq
1379
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:04 pm
Support. He definitely deserves to be in. However, I'd prefer his younger look over his old look.
Chaotic Chao Level 4 CPU
249 ChaotixChao
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:06 pm
lol I didn't even consider that. Just found the easiest image of him on Google images and he happened to be old in it =p To be honest though, I don't really mind either way as long as he gets like, a grey hair/black hair color swap, heh.
OmegaSteve777 Level 8 CPU
1750
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:14 pm
support
VultureDuck Level 6 CPU
908
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:59 pm
Support, I really would like to see him in this game
Naughty Ottsel Level 5 CPU
328 Vanillogic
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:32 pm
Support
TheRedBeast Level 3 CPU
94
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:28 pm
support, like tekken heihachi is my secondary choose in that game
King Proto Level 5 CPU
427 ProtoBlur
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Sun Mar 27, 2016 8:35 pm
Support!
TrinitroMan Level 7 CPU
1244
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:12 am
Idea. Since Smash Crusade uses color seperation on most characters, how about we just give Heihachi a good enough color seperation so you could have both Old Heihachi and Young Heihachi?
Lego Shaq
1379
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:16 am
TrinitroMan wrote:
Idea. Since Smash Crusade uses color seperation on most characters, how about we just give Heihachi a good enough color seperation so you could have both Old Heihachi and Young Heihachi?
Young and Old are different face-wise and hair-wise. Doesn't make sense and I don't see how we could do that.
Chaotic Chao Level 4 CPU
249 ChaotixChao
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:29 am
Honestly it's hard to say which version of him should be in...on one hand, "young" Heihachi is how he first appeared before the huge time gap between Tekken 2 and 3 (and for some reason he's young in Tag 2, so he's young in 3 Tekken games, not counting PSASBR), but old Heihachi is definitely more well-known and is, for all intents and purposes, his "default" look nowadays (he's old in Tekken 3, Tag, 4, 5, 6, and 7...that's a lot more Tekken games, not even counting Soul Calibur 2 and SFxT). Since he's more than recognizable either way, I have no real preference; but, I'd lean toward the old version of him simply because it's how he usually looks.
If Crusade does ever somehow get alt costumes then he should definitely have one, but otherwise I suppose a gray/black hair color swap would have to do for whichever version isn't default.
Braystar Level 7 CPU
1231 N/A
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:41 pm
Support.
Chaotic Chao Level 4 CPU
249 ChaotixChao
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Sun May 01, 2016 2:57 pm
Bump: added a supporter list, made the moveset slightly easier to read, and added one taunt because I can't think of more that aren't generic. Also, bump because I was wondering if anyone had any opinions on the moveset itself (or if nothing else, at least which Final Smash you think is better).
wheeled_tank Level 6 CPU
603 wheeled_tank
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Sun May 01, 2016 3:19 pm
Lego Shaq wrote:
TrinitroMan wrote:
Idea. Since Smash Crusade uses color seperation on most characters, how about we just give Heihachi a good enough color seperation so you could have both Old Heihachi and Young Heihachi?
Young and Old are different face-wise and hair-wise. Doesn't make sense and I don't see how we could do that.
Snake has an "Old Snake" pallet, so it isn't out of the question that an "Old" pallet swap shouldn't be in.
As for support, I don't see any reason he shouldn't be in (other than the fact that he doesn't appear regularly on Nintendo AND was in PSASBR), and there for, have my SUPPORT
Lego Shaq
1379
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Sun May 01, 2016 5:02 pm
wheeled_tank wrote:
Lego Shaq wrote:
TrinitroMan wrote:
Idea. Since Smash Crusade uses color seperation on most characters, how about we just give Heihachi a good enough color seperation so you could have both Old Heihachi and Young Heihachi?
Young and Old are different face-wise and hair-wise. Doesn't make sense and I don't see how we could do that.
Snake has an "Old Snake" pallet, so it isn't out of the question that an "Old" pallet swap shouldn't be in.
As for support, I don't see any reason he shouldn't be in (other than the fact that he doesn't appear regularly on Nintendo AND was in PSASBR), and there for, have my SUPPORT
Except Old Snake is just different colors, sprite-wise. Old Heihachi is different physically, different hair, different face...I don't know why Old Snake's palette matters.
...Oh, I just got what you were saying. An old palette would make sense.
Davi_gamer Level 1 CPU
8 N/A
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:26 am
support
crazybark Level 4 CPU
236 crazybark
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:57 pm
support
Triforceriku Level 3 CPU
51 TriforcerikuX
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:00 pm
Full on support
Captain Berzerk Level 4 CPU
104 20GX_Berzerk
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:47 pm
Same^
armatage Level 3 CPU
69 [i]N/A[/i]
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:01 pm
If you could string his moves together into usable combos, I'd say we've got a perfect Tekken representative
Idea: maybe his final smash could be him bringing the Tekken force to gun down targets, more emphasizing his role in the series as a conglomerate tycoon.
Chaotic Chao Level 4 CPU
249 ChaotixChao
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:45 am
My moveset for Heihachi has a ton of follow-up moves and an emphasis on juggling, so no worries there.
Also, support list updated.
crazybark Level 4 CPU
236 crazybark
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:46 am
yay
armatage Level 3 CPU
69 [i]N/A[/i]
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:55 am
support
Objection!_mania Level 1 CPU
6 N/A
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:50 am
i support,i would like Heihachi
Xalciss Level 4 CPU
148
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:31 pm
support
Chaotic Chao Level 4 CPU
249 ChaotixChao
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:10 pm
I gotta say, I'm happy about all the support this is getting!
crazybark Level 4 CPU
236 crazybark
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:58 pm
bump
Xalciss Level 4 CPU
148
Subject: Re: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:38 pm
bump
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Heihachi Mishima (Tekken) Discussion: Iron Fist King