Roy (Fire Emblem) Discussion

Roy's our Boy! Roy's our Boy! That's why the genuine Roy needs to be back, not the Koopaling Roy, which we'll get to in a future thread. But the lord from Fire Emblem who brought the franchise to the states alongside Marth. One of the two first First Fire Emblem Heroes in Smash and the first of them to make it overseas, Roy deserves another Smash Game in his resume!

My advice is that you look to Project M for details on his moveset, any suggestions as to how to change him up would be appreciated.

Godspeed lads.

I heard that Roy in his Fire Emblem game was a very unlikeable character.

Ok, enough of that. Roy should have been my topic! I never made it since I had assumed Roy was confirmed for the game, like Dedede and Zelda (who got topics too...).

Main change I'd make outside of Project M is a projectile - Roy's sword is actually a 1-2 range weapon, meaning he can attack enemies far away. This is shown as an explosion that appears a set distance away - perhaps that could be added to his neutral special (in addition to the swing).

Also, Roy actually never made it overseas (aside from a cameo at the end of FE7). That game starred Lyn, Eliwood, and Hector. Eliwood is Roy's father, so you may have been confused.

StayPuft wrote:

I heard that Roy in his Fire Emblem game was a very unlikeable character.

Well when ya got multiple files in the game itself pretty much saying "HEY! ROY'S CONFIRMED!", he's pretty fucking likely.

DimpsyVS wrote:

StayPuft wrote:

I heard that Roy in his Fire Emblem game was a very unlikeable character.

Well when ya got multiple files in the game itself pretty much saying "HEY! ROY'S CONFIRMED!", he's pretty fucking likely.

Sorry to break it to you bud but those files don't mean shit

Roy's not unlikeable, he's just got a typically JRPG-style "effeminate" personality, like Marth/Celice/Leaf. He's mostly just disliked by people who go into the game hoping to play as a huge stoic guy, the Sigurd/Hector/Ike type.

Roymaster (calling you that to prevent confusion), do you think it would be a decent idea to make Roy use an actual two-handed greatsword for the Sword of Seals, so that it looks like it does in the GBA games?

And what do you think of the possibility of making him play like Brawl Ike? It didn't make sense for Ike because Ike is never seen struggling around with his greatsword. Brawl Ike made no sense not just because of Ike's speed stat, but more because his animations are just a lot more fluid than that. Roy, though, attacks pretty slowly in his animations with the Sword of Seals. While Roy is also pretty fast, at least a Roy who plays like Brawl Ike would to some extent feel like the actual character.

Okay! Brawl Ike Moveset for Roy is an acceptable application!

No, not moveset. Just generalized playstyle and feel.

Dry wrote:

Roymaster (calling you that to prevent confusion), do you think it would be a decent idea to make Roy use an actual two-handed greatsword for the Sword of Seals, so that it looks like it does in the GBA games?

And what do you think of the possibility of making him play like Brawl Ike? It didn't make sense for Ike because Ike is never seen struggling around with his greatsword. Brawl Ike made no sense not just because of Ike's speed stat, but more because his animations are just a lot more fluid than that. Roy, though, attacks pretty slowly in his animations with the Sword of Seals. While Roy is also pretty fast, at least a Roy who plays like Brawl Ike would to some extent feel like the actual character.

Hm... that sounds like a good idea, actually. I don't think Smash has ever had a fighter use a 2-handed weapon before (though it may be because of the inability to hold items). Sounds unique enough to work.

Perhaps we could give a few of his attacks an igniting gimmick - where it's a decently fast attack normally, but an extra press of A or something spends an extra half second or so igniting it for extra fire damage/knockback. Just an idea.

A fast greatsword user? Sounds interesting.

And he's gotta have t3h ph1r3.

DimpsyVS wrote:

StayPuft wrote:

I heard that Roy in his Fire Emblem game was a very unlikeable character.

Well when ya got multiple files in the game itself pretty much saying "HEY! ROY'S CONFIRMED!", he's pretty fucking likely.

Rival Trainer is also confirmed, featuring Scizor, Aggron, and Gengar. Hope you enjoy

StayPuft wrote:

DimpsyVS wrote:

StayPuft wrote:

I heard that Roy in his Fire Emblem game was a very unlikeable character.

Well when ya got multiple files in the game itself pretty much saying "HEY! ROY'S CONFIRMED!", he's pretty fucking likely.

Rival Trainer is also confirmed, featuring Scizor, Aggron, and Gengar. Hope you enjoy

And Adeline and Vaati, too! So is Cia, Lana, Ruto, the Destiny, Wayfinder and Sunset Trios of the Kingdom Hearts Franchise, Marco and Cre-Ha! Ha! Ha! Oh, thanks a lot capitalism.

Spoon300 wrote:

StayPuft wrote:

Rival Trainer is also confirmed, featuring Scizor, Aggron, and Gengar. Hope you enjoy

And Adeline and Vaati, too! So is Cia, Lana, Ruto, the Destiny, Wayfinder and Sunset Trios of the Kingdom Hearts Franchise, Marco and Cre-Ha! Ha! Ha! Oh, thanks a lot capitalism.

Yes, the economy did this to you. Say, how's that empty life bar doin' for you? What's that? Meowth got your tongue? Shame. I so wanted to engage in a conversation with you about the state of the American trade system, and how it's ruining our fan-made games. x3

Also, Roy would be cool. But I don't want a ton of Fire Emblem characters, or even a ton of sword-wielders.

Naughty Ottsel wrote:

Spoon300 wrote:

StayPuft wrote:

Rival Trainer is also confirmed, featuring Scizor, Aggron, and Gengar. Hope you enjoy

And Adeline and Vaati, too! So is Cia, Lana, Ruto, the Destiny, Wayfinder and Sunset Trios of the Kingdom Hearts Franchise, Marco and Cre-Ha! Ha! Ha! Oh, thanks a lot capitalism.

Yes, the economy did this to you. Say, how's that empty life bar doin' for you? What's that? Meowth got your tongue? Shame. I so wanted to engage in a conversation with you about the state of the American trade system, and how it's ruining our fan-made games. x3

Also, Roy would be cool. But I don't want a ton of Fire Emblem characters, or even a ton of sword-wielders.

I have to disagree with you, Fire Emblem defenetively DESERVES more reps, not just Marth, also Roy, Ike, Lucina, Lyndis, Hector, Chrom, Robin

These characters are charismatic, charming, heroic, and honestly, MEMORABLE. Of course, we can't have ALL of them, but still, it would be nice to see Lyn and Roy/Eliwood in Crusade

Naughty Ottsel wrote:

Spoon300 wrote:

StayPuft wrote:

Rival Trainer is also confirmed, featuring Scizor, Aggron, and Gengar. Hope you enjoy

And Adeline and Vaati, too! So is Cia, Lana, Ruto, the Destiny, Wayfinder and Sunset Trios of the Kingdom Hearts Franchise, Marco and Cre-Ha! Ha! Ha! Oh, thanks a lot capitalism.

Yes, the economy did this to you. Say, how's that empty life bar doin' for you? What's that? Meowth got your tongue? Shame. I so wanted to engage in a conversation with you about the state of the American trade system, and how it's ruining our fan-made games. x3

Spoiler:

also now that hes banned can people take his characters?

I can't believe it...

I don't know whether to be happy or delighted.

Slissith wrote:

I can't believe it...

I don't know whether to be happy or delighted.

Happy it is, obviously

Some of you who know me probably won't believe what I'm about to say, but I don't think FE deserves more reps. Not of the current type we're looking at.

Pretty much every FE lord fits into one of two archetypes, in terms of their personality, their choice of actions, their age, their fighting style, their in-game stats, heck even their hair colour to an extent.

There's the typically "eastern" character who is uncertain of his/her ability and is afraid to take on responsibility, but has strong resolve and gets through with the help of his/her friends, always tries to be merciful and distinct from his/her evil enemies, is typically around 16-17, and has high skill, speed and luck but poor HP and defence. That would be Marth, Cellica, Celice, Leaf, Roy, Eliwood, Lyn, Eirika and Micaiah.

Then there's the typically "western" character who is already strong at the beginning, tends to be stoic but well-meaning, takes on the leadership role easily and doesn't rely on his second-in-command much, but has a single personality flaw, is typicall around 18-19, and has high HP, strength and defence but average speed and poor resistance, and probably has blue hair. That would be Alm, Sigurd, Hector, Ephraim, Ike and Chrom.

So when we say that the FE lords are "memorable", I don't think they're memorable in a good way; they're memorable because they're all almost identical to each other. If Marth and Ike already cover the two lord archetypes, then personality is not much of an argument for adding more lords. Only exception being if they break the mold to some considerable extent, but the only one I'd consider fitting that requirement is Micaiah.

Now non-Lord characters, that's a different story.

EDIT: Huh, which thread got Spoon banned? Or was it just his general sheninagenery?

Johnny64 wrote:

I have to disagree with you, Fire Emblem defenetively DESERVES more reps, not just Marth, also Roy, Ike, Lucina, Lyndis, Hector, Chrom, Robin

These characters are charismatic, charming, heroic, and honestly, MEMORABLE. Of course, we can't have ALL of them, but still, it would be nice to see Lyn and Roy/Eliwood in Crusade

I completely respect your opinion, and I realize that that these characters surely have their appeals and traits that make them so beloved by fans of Fire Emblem. But from the standpoint of someone who doesn't play (or really care much for) Fire Emblem, most of these characters are, first of all, unrecognizable without prior knowledge of the series, and secondly, seem like their playstyles would be/are virtually indistinguishable.

And, from what Dry said, the similar nature of many FE characters isn't just something that a non-Fire Emblem fan would see. I'm not saying these characters aren't well-written, or likable, or memorable to those who play the games. And if a character from Fire Emblem is suggested that I feel has legitimate reason to be included, I'll support them. But on a personal level, I think there's only so much that can be done with FE characters.

But, hey, feel free to prove me wrong on that!

Also, Dry, I'm pretty sure the moderators were just fed up in general with Spoon. From what I could tell, at least, since his latest thread wasn't as aggravating as some of his earlier ones. I think it was just his behavior on the forum in general.

Sure as hell not complaining!

The issue with Fire Emblem is that the 'main characters' (lords) are all fairly boring. But there are so many lords since Fire Emblem doesn't usually keep the same characters for very long so that's all that ends up being considered for Smash. We can't pick a non-lord as, in all likelyhood, he/she is a minor character that only appeared in 1/2 game(s) (with the most notable exception in Anna). Villains could work as well, but the populace doesn't recognize them as well as the lords... so...

In any case, Roy was already in Smash and uses a flaming greatsword. Honestly, there isn't much else going for him... but hopefully that's enough to secure a spot.

... how many Fire Emblem characters do we want, anyways? Marth, Ike, Roy, Robin, Anna, Lyn is already 6, and we don't have a pure mage, axe, or lance anywhere in there.

Well, giving away as little of the roster as possible, I can say that 6 may or may not be already too high a number. It's probably best if you don't outright assume anyone is on the roster who isn't already in the game, not even Roy, Dedede or Zelda (although those specific characters might or might not be on the roster anyway). So for now assume that Marth is the only FE rep, even though that's clearly probably maybe true. There's no harm in suggesting characters who are "obviously" on the roster, like maybe some of those other five FE reps.

That's what I thought. (Though it almost sounds like you're contradicting SK a bit... if that's true, how do we truly support a character if we don't know what the limit is? And you're making it out like the roster isn't influenced by this section. Of course, you DID mention before that Awakening has at least one rep, so...)

I wasn't assuming those additional 5 were on the roster - I was merely mentioning the 5 most likely FE reps, which ends up not representing Fire Emblem very well aside from covering a wide variety of games.
It hurts me to say this, but if it ends up being between Roy and Lyn, I'd choose Lyn. Going by representation, they are from the same continent, so...

I'm pretty sure when I said that Awakening had a rep, I also did the "could possibly may or may not be but who knows" thing. Just, like, don't bother trying to make any inferences from the stuff I say.

Not knowing the limit of the roster shouldn't affect your ability to support a character. It's not like people are currently looking at the limit and thinking, "ah but if X got in that would be one character too many!!!" Assume a reasonable limit like, well, like everyone's been doing up to now, and roll with it.

How am I making it out like the roster isn't influenced by this section? If anything it's the opposite. Everyone on this board has a chance of being on the roster. This chance ranges from 1% to 99%, but hey, it's still a chance.

Dry wrote:

I'm pretty sure when I said that Awakening had a rep, I also did the "could possibly may or may not be but who knows" thing. Just, like, don't bother trying to make any inferences from the stuff I say.

Dry wrote:

Well, Anna, Chrom, Robin and Lucina all rep Awakening well. Not all of the ones I just mentioned are actually on the roster, but this is as far as I can go without leaking anything.

Close enough to saying 'Awakening is on the Roster!' That was the whole reasoning behind not having an Awakening AT.

Dry wrote:

Not knowing the limit of the roster shouldn't affect your ability to support a character. It's not like people are currently looking at the limit and thinking, "ah but if X got in that would be one character too many!!!" Assume a reasonable limit like, well, like everyone's been doing up to now, and roll with it.

How am I making it out like the roster isn't influenced by this section? If anything it's the opposite. Everyone on this board has a chance of being on the roster. This chance ranges from 1% to 99%, but hey, it's still a chance.

That's exactly how I look at it. If we had 300 characters on the roster, I don't think most of us would have a problem with minor one-off characters like Fi. But when we're restricted with the roster size, we have to make cuts. Why would we want Fi over Ghirahim? Why not both? Or is Ghirahim even worth it? If there are only 20 or so slots left, why should we even consider characters like Sly, Vivec, and Agnes when there are more important choices like Zelda, Dedede, and Black Shadow? A major problem is knowning what a reasonable limit is. 58 is already a lot in a fighting game... I thought maybe 80, but that's apparently wrong. Is it then 100? 120?

It's really difficult to judge who to support - so generally, I look for unique, well-thought-out movesets over pure representation. That should be the true standout for Crusade - interesting playstyles alongside Smash veterans.

The way you said 'giving away as little of the roster as possible' and 'don't outright assume anyone is on the roster' made it seem like the roster is something that's either set or mostly set...
(Also, Marco has a 0% chance)

You just need to really look into the semantics of everything I say to do with the roster.

"Not all of them are on the roster" means that the statement "all of them are on the roster" is false. It does not mean that one or more is/are necessarily on the roster.

The phrase "the roster" in both those quotes don't really imply that it's set. Now if I'd said "whole roster" or "final roster" or something, then yeah, but I intentionally didn't.

Quote :

so generally, I look for unique, well-thought-out movesets over pure representation. That should be the true standout for Crusade - interesting playstyles alongside Smash veterans.

There you go, there's your personal criterion. I doubt there are more than, say, 30 characters who you feel have unique, well-thought out movesets.

True enough, but in the context of the conversation you was implying that there was indeed at least one Awakening rep, therefore we didn't need an Assist Trophy to represent it. There would have been no need to bring it up if there wasn't at least one - actually, there shouldn't have been a need if there was only 1 on the 'roster' (as we still wanted a Tellius rep that wasn't Ike... though I suppose you could make the argument that Tellius has 2 games).

Dry wrote:

There you go, there's your personal criterion. I doubt there are more than, say, 30 characters who you feel have unique, well-thought out movesets.

I could design 30 well-thought out movesets if I really wanted... but I see the point.


... um... back to Roy... I really, really like the character, but I can't support until we get a good, unique moveset going. Unfortunately. That can certainly be done, we just need to work at it.

What if we axed Ike and gave Roy his general feel and gameplay, with fire/ignition, greater speed all around and that badass voice acting?

Well, that's not an impossibility. If people really, really, REALLY wanted Roy in, that could be done.

The thing is that there is not a single thing Roy offers that Ike doesn't, and Ike also happens to have a ton of other stuff. Roy has a greatsword? Ike has two to choose from, three if you count "endgame" Ike. Roy has fire? Ike has a wind blast that fans out like a tsunami. Roy is fast, so is Ike. Roy has awesome somersaulting critical animations? So does Ike, and Ike also has Aether. "Endgame" Ike also owns a battleaxe, and can negate enemy abilities, and can also be blessed by Yune and be covered in blue flames. So yeah.

Also Ike's a returning vet and Roy isn't. Reps two games, where Roy reps one. Covers the alternative lord personality type, whereas Roy is like Marth. And prrroooobably wins on popularity, although that's just conjecture on my part.

Replacing Ike with Roy isn't impossible, and maybe you guys could really campaign hard for it if you wanted to, but I hope you see that it's illogical at best.

Dry wrote:

Well, that's not an impossibility. If people really, really, REALLY wanted Roy in, that could be done.

The thing is that there is not a single thing Roy offers that Ike doesn't, and Ike also happens to have a ton of other stuff. Roy has a greatsword? Ike has two to choose from, three if you count "endgame" Ike. Roy has fire? Ike has a wind blast that fans out like a tsunami. Roy is fast, so is Ike. Roy has awesome somersaulting critical animations? So does Ike, and Ike also has Aether. "Endgame" Ike also owns a battleaxe, and can negate enemy abilities, and can also be blessed by Yune and be covered in blue flames. So yeah.

Also Ike's a returning vet and Roy isn't. Reps two games, where Roy reps one. Covers the alternative lord personality type, whereas Roy is like Marth. And prrroooobably wins on popularity, although that's just conjecture on my part.

Replacing Ike with Roy isn't impossible, and maybe you guys could really campaign hard for it if you wanted to, but I hope you see that it's illogical at best.

Pretty fair argument you make there...
Well, i guess Ike will still fight for his friends