Project Crusade Community
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| | | Author | Message |
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Smash King
 Smash King
 8744
 EJ88201
|  Subject: Ashley Discussion Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:06 am | |
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Discuss, share opinions, ideas, etc. about Ashley.
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|  | | SP
3856
cellularSP
| | Subject: Re: Ashley Discussion Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:56 pm | |
| I had some ideas for moveset improvements. I've been thinking about this a bit too much.
Currently, her Dspecial is a stupid counter, which is... well, dumb. It doesn't fit her character outside of maybe looking a bit spooky looking.
Another idea I had for this was basically similar to Link's bombs, except Ashley takes out potions. The potions can be different colors like green, red, etc, and they all could have various affects like freezing opponents with a blue potion, etc.
However, the spooky mask is pretty cool, so maybe it could be put as a new side smash.
Also, in Game & Wario, Ashley's friend, Red, aka her broom and wand, can also turn into an umbrella. Perhaps this could be something added to Ashley's up special, maybe if the B button is pressed Red turns into an umbrella and Ashley can float downwards. IDK it might be a bit unnecessary but I'm not sure.
Speaking of Red, IMO Red himself should be used more (not turned into anything), dash attack is not enough considering Red always appears with Ashley in Warioware. At least one other area should be Ashley's grab IMO, where Red is shot out and can bring opponents back to Ashley (which could/would reference their first appearance where Ashley sends Red after that one alien dude).
I'd actually like to see a complete revamp of Ashley's playstyle. To me, a combo-heavy character fits her playstyle... like a square peg fits into a round hole. Aka it doesn't fit.
Ashley, to me, seems more like a character that stays away from close-range fighting to deal damage from afar, and who can also screw with opponents with various nasty status affects (she is a witch after all).
I also read that in Game & Wario, apparently Ashley's spells only work as they are intended roughly 40% of the time (which is somewhat silly but...). I'm thinking that we could reference this in more than just her side special (where she can gain weight). I'm not talking about making her moves miss or damage her, but rather maybe give them a small chance to deal more damage or be more nasty than normal. |
| | | | Roy
 Level 7 CPU
1169
RoyMaster4
| | Subject: Re: Ashley Discussion Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:31 pm | |
| Agreed with pretty much everything you said. However, I would avoid looking at Game & Wario for inspiration - that has Ashley sucked into a brightly colored cookie world, which doesn't really fit her at all.
My idea for her playstyle is almost what you described - but with a slight change. What if most of her attacks hit at a distance away from her? For example, if for her down smash, we moved the flames further away from her. She could combo somewhat, but only at that set distance - if opponents get too close, she has almost nothing to get them away, but her attacks are devastating at, say, Marth-tipper-distance. |
| | | | Dry
4607
| | Subject: Re: Ashley Discussion Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:13 am | |
| - Roy wrote:
- if opponents get too close, she has almost nothing to get them away, but her attacks are devastating at, say, Marth-tipper-distance.
Which would synergise very well with Ashley's mobility. I like it. Take as much time as you need to get a full moveset up and running, SP. I like the ideas so far. |
| | | | SP
3856
cellularSP
| | Subject: Re: Ashley Discussion Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:36 am | |
| - Roy wrote:
- Agreed with pretty much everything you said. However, I would avoid looking at Game & Wario for inspiration - that has Ashley sucked into a brightly colored cookie world, which doesn't really fit her at all.
My idea for her playstyle is almost what you described - but with a slight change. What if most of her attacks hit at a distance away from her? For example, if for her down smash, we moved the flames further away from her. She could combo somewhat, but only at that set distance - if opponents get too close, she has almost nothing to get them away, but her attacks are devastating at, say, Marth-tipper-distance. I'm fine with that. As I said, having her up-close and personal doesn't really fit her. Having her at a distance would be very good. As for looking at Game & Wario, I'm aware of where her part takes place, and the things I've mentioned have no grounding in the candy world. Umbrella seemed like something Red could do already and the spells thing is a part of Ashley herself. |
| | | | SP
3856
cellularSP
| | Subject: Re: Ashley Discussion Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:25 am | |
| Been working on a moveset, have everything but aerials - Spoiler:
Entrance - Ashley floats down on an umbrella, and when she lands the umbrella turns into her wand. Alternative: Ashley is already standing still, and Red turns into Ashley's wand before the match begins.
Jab/Combo - Ashley slaps forwards, then makes a swing with her wand. The first hit doesn’t even flinch opponents, and the second hit deals little knockback.
S Tilt - Ashley takes the head off of her bunny doll and hurls it a short distance forwards, which blows up shortly afterwards or when it hits an opponent. The bunny head is treated like a projectile, and is affected by gravity (meaning it can fall of ledges, etc.) There can only be one bunny head out at a time. The attack can hit opponents up close, but the explosion can damage Ashley herself and this attack has some startup lag to it, making it unsafe up close.
U Tilt - Ashley hurls her wand above herself, forcing Red to turn back into himself. As he stumbles about in the air, he damages opponents, dealing multiple hits of damage before returning to Ashley.
D Tilt - Ashley releases a small bolt of magic from her hand, which travels a short distance forwards, dealing more damage right before it disappears.
Dash Attack - Ashley trips, which damages opponents as she tumbles forwards.
Get-Up Attack - Red flails around both sides of Ashley as she gets up.
Edge Attack - Ashley waves her wand around in front of herself as she gets back up on stage.
F Smash - Ashley dawns a white mask and she screams, dealing damage in a decent area in front of Ashley. Opponents hit by the very end of the attack are briefly stunned, and opponents that are closer to Ashley are pushed away. If opponents are lucky enough, Ashley can push them into the spot where they are briefly stunned.
D Smash - Ashley summons a thunderbolt that strikes down in front of Ashley.
U Smash - Ashley creates a poisonous cloud that grows bigger the longer it is charged. Opponents that are within this cloud take damage and are slowed over time (similarly to the stopwatch item in Brawl), with the affects becoming more severe as they stay within the cloud. More charge equals a bigger cloud and the cloud sticking around longer. It should be noted that only one cloud can be on the stage at a time.
N Air -
F Air -
B Air -
D Air -
U Air -
Grab - Red turns back into himself and is launched forwards by Ashley. If he connects with an opponent, he drags them back to Ashley and holds them in place. If unsuccessful, he returns to Ashley and turns back into her wand.
Pummel - Ashley shocks the opponent with weak electricity from her hands.
F Throw - Red knocks the opponent away.
B Throw - Red knocks the opponent backwards.
D Throw - Red damages the opponent then forces them to the ground. Where Red sets the enemy down is actually in the sweetspot for Ashley’s attacks.
U Throw - Red hurls the opponent upwards.
N Special: Hocus Pocus - Ashley charges up magic within her wand. The longer this move is charged, the more damage and range this move will have, and the affect for each charge “level” is different as well. Not charging at all to just barely charging briefly stuns opponents. When released with about half a charge, opponents will be tripped and have a Lip’s Stick on their head. When fully charged, opponents will fall asleep.
S Special: Pantalones Giganticus - Ashley, after a brief startup, fires a small projectile from her wand. When opponents are hit by this, they grow in size like they were hit by a super mushroom, except that their damage is not affected at all; only their weight is. If the B button is held while Ashley performs the animation, the spell will backfire onto Ashley, making her become bigger with increased size but no damage changes.
D Special: Witch’s Brew - Ashley takes out a potion, which is randomly selected from a variety of types. The potion acts like a normal item, and can be thrown, etc. Each type has a specific side-effect that occurs when it is thrown and hits opponents; it should be noted that Ashley can affect herself with the potions if she so chooses, or if she accidentally gets hit with the potion somehow. Here are the different ones she can pull out:
Green: heals anyone affected by a small amount
Blue: freezes anyone affected
Red: deals fire damage to anyone affected
Purple: poisons anyone affected
Yellow: anyone hit on the ground is buried; anyone hit in the air is meteored.
Orange: turns anyone affected into a random inanimate object, which acts similarly to Yoshi’s Egg Lay. Hexed opponents take full damage but no knockback, and revert to normal after a time.
U Special: Broomstick - Red turns from a wand into a broom, and Ashley is able to fly around freely for a time. Pressing the B button will end the flight early. Pressing the A button will allow Ashley to fire off small bolts of magic while riding the broom.
Taunt - Ashley brings a finger to her lips and she hushes the audience.
|
| | | | Dry
4607
| | Subject: Re: Ashley Discussion Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:50 am | |
| Everything else looks good, but how are you supposed to hit with the second hit of jab? |
| | | | Perfect Hell
8837
| | Subject: Re: Ashley Discussion Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:25 am | |
| Adding my commentaries in bold, some from a balancing perspective and may not necessarily change anything but rather add on details, others from moveset/playstyle perspectives. Sometimes im calling for change and others just adding more detail i think fitting. - StayPuft wrote:
- Been working on a moveset, have everything but aerials
- Spoiler:
Entrance - Ashley floats down on an umbrella, and when she lands the umbrella turns into her wand. Alternative: Ashley is already standing still, and Red turns into Ashley's wand before the match begins.
Jab/Combo - Ashley slaps forwards, then makes a swing with her wand. The first hit doesn’t even flinch opponents, and the second hit deals little knockback.
If the first hit doesnt flinch, it doesnt lead into the second hit. Did you mean no knockback but include hitstun?
Also, if the second hit doesnt really knock them away how does it fit into her playstyle? Shouldnt this be her crappy range gtfo move?
S Tilt - Ashley takes the head off of her bunny doll and hurls it a short distance forwards, which blows up shortly afterwards or when it hits an opponent. The bunny head is treated like a projectile, and is affected by gravity (meaning it can fall of ledges, etc.) There can only be one bunny head out at a time. The attack can hit opponents up close, but the explosion can damage Ashley herself and this attack has some startup lag to it, making it unsafe up close.
U Tilt - Ashley hurls her wand above herself, forcing Red to turn back into himself. As he stumbles about in the air, he damages opponents, dealing multiple hits of damage before returning to Ashley.
On a side note, i think the wand should deal little damage and send the opponent sideways so they dont get hit into the Red portion of the move, making spacing important as usual. Then when Red flails around towards peak height, that's where you really want to catch an opponent.
D Tilt - Ashley releases a small bolt of magic from her hand, which travels a short distance forwards, dealing more damage right before it disappears.
I think similar to side tilt and up tilt having a visual thing happen that signifies why a certain range of the move is stronger, the bolt should explode or something right before disappearing to signify the location and reasoning of the stronger hitbox. Also, the weaker hitbox will not link into the stronger hitbox.
Dash Attack - Ashley trips, which damages opponents as she tumbles forwards.
Get-Up Attack - Red flails around both sides of Ashley as she gets up.
Edge Attack - Ashley waves her wand around in front of herself as she gets back up on stage.
F Smash - Ashley dawns a white mask and she screams, dealing damage in a decent area in front of Ashley. Opponents hit by the very end of the attack are briefly stunned, and opponents that are closer to Ashley are pushed away. If opponents are lucky enough, Ashley can push them into the spot where they are briefly stunned.
Maybe the close range should function like a normal F smash (without having impressive kill power, just moderate), mid range pushes into stun, and end range stuns? Not sure, just an option.
D Smash - Ashley summons a thunderbolt that strikes down in front of Ashley.
TBH, i like her current Dsmash much better. Why not just take Roy's suggestion and move the pillars further away so there's a close range area the opponent can be in to not get hit at all?
U Smash - Ashley creates a poisonous cloud that grows bigger the longer it is charged. Opponents that are within this cloud take damage and are slowed over time (similarly to the stopwatch item in Brawl), with the affects becoming more severe as they stay within the cloud. More charge equals a bigger cloud and the cloud sticking around longer. It should be noted that only one cloud can be on the stage at a time.
So what happens when you Usmash while one is out? Old one disappears and new one is created?
N Air - Idea: Current nair, modified hitboxes. The closer part of the move (near/on her body, where her hair is thickest as well, this area sends up and away, she can't combo off it, it's a single hit, damage is low. Outer hair tip hitboxes act like the current ones but made better, like the whole move was pre-nerf. So, tipper area is multi hitting and drags the opponent down and can be combo'd off of, even into itself if she can follow their movement and keep up the spacing. But if they are any closer, it doesnt do much good.
F Air -
B Air - Idea: Current Bair, but move the explosion further away from her. Powerful aerial, requires specific range spacing.
D Air -
U Air -
Grab - Red turns back into himself and is launched forwards by Ashley. If he connects with an opponent, he drags them back to Ashley and holds them in place. If unsuccessful, he returns to Ashley and turns back into her wand.
Pummel - Ashley shocks the opponent with weak electricity from her hands.
F Throw - Red knocks the opponent away.
B Throw - Red knocks the opponent backwards.
D Throw - Red damages the opponent then forces them to the ground. Where Red sets the enemy down is actually in the sweetspot for Ashley’s attacks.
U Throw - Red hurls the opponent upwards.
N Special: Hocus Pocus - Ashley charges up magic within her wand. The longer this move is charged, the more damage and range this move will have, and the affect for each charge “level” is different as well. Not charging at all to just barely charging briefly stuns opponents. When released with about half a charge, opponents will be tripped and have a Lip’s Stick on their head. When fully charged, opponents will fall asleep.
S Special: Pantalones Giganticus - Ashley, after a brief startup, fires a small projectile from her wand. When opponents are hit by this, they grow in size like they were hit by a super mushroom, except that their damage is not affected at all; only their weight is. If the B button is held while Ashley performs the animation, the spell will backfire onto Ashley, making her become bigger with increased size but no damage changes.
Hitboxes and hurtboxes will also have to change...Dunno exactly how it would be coded but i know it can be done, just dont know if it can be applied easily or if it's tedious. Also, why the change from random to held input? Aren't her "backfires" supposed to be unintentional?
D Special: Witch’s Brew - Ashley takes out a potion, which is randomly selected from a variety of types. The potion acts like a normal item, and can be thrown, etc. Each type has a specific side-effect that occurs when it is thrown and hits opponents; it should be noted that Ashley can affect herself with the potions if she so chooses, or if she accidentally gets hit with the potion somehow. Here are the different ones she can pull out:
Green: heals anyone affected by a small amount
Blue: freezes anyone affected
Red: deals fire damage to anyone affected
Purple: poisons anyone affected
Yellow: anyone hit on the ground is buried; anyone hit in the air is meteored.
Orange: turns anyone affected into a random inanimate object, which acts similarly to Yoshi’s Egg Lay. Hexed opponents take full damage but no knockback, and revert to normal after a time.
U Special: Broomstick - Red turns from a wand into a broom, and Ashley is able to fly around freely for a time. Pressing the B button will end the flight early. Pressing the A button will allow Ashley to fire off small bolts of magic while riding the broom.
Taunt - Ashley brings a finger to her lips and she hushes the audience.
Overall I like where this is going. If i didnt comment on something, that means i think it's good. |
| | | | MarioStrikerMurphy1994
Level 5 CPU
345
| | Subject: Re: Ashley Discussion Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:31 pm | |
| Ashley is one of my most favourite characters in this game. Her abilities made even me think that she has the potential for be a playable newcomer in any official Smash game.
However, about her Final Smash, I'm somewhat doubtful... I know she summons a giant carnivore flower, but, which name could have her Final Smash? |
| | | | Argly902
 Level 2 CPU
29
| | Subject: Re: Ashley Discussion Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:22 pm | |
| Ashley overall is a puzzling character to me. Her hitboxes in general are tiny, and her attacks do low damage, and personally, her side special is near useless due to the failure rate and the lack of practical usage. Her neutral special is kinda neat, but quite predictable. Although she has a bunch of combo tools, I am largely unsuccessful in connecting them in an eloquent manner
Anyone have any good combos or tips? |
| | | | Perfect Hell
8837
| | Subject: Re: Ashley Discussion Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:32 pm | |
| Her side special will increase the opponent's weight when successful, or increase her own on failure. The former helps out her combo game, and the latter helps out her survivability, especially at higher percents when she no longer has to worry about being combo'd herself.
Some of her hitboxes are quite small but others are pretty big, such as Utilt, Nair, and Down Smash. These 3 are all incredible moves in general for more reasons than just their range.
She also has basically the best recovery in smash history.
For combos, Dair -> anything. Utilt and Nair string into eachother and other moves. Fair can string together at lower percents. I think she has some throw combos too, not sure. Her jab 1 and 2 are also frame traps, often allowing you to connect back into Jab 1 (be careful not to start up the multi-jab), or a grab if they get used to this and try to shield, etc.
She's also very speedy, so make use of those clouds for field control and try to get your combo started while your opponent is busy playing footsies with the cloud. There's a lot of creative ways you can use the up smash to your advantage other than directly hitting them with the bolt. |
| | | | Athorment
 
434
Athorment
| | Subject: Re: Ashley Discussion Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:06 pm | |
| While testing out the dev test build for 0.9.1 i came across a few ideas i wanted to share. Seeing as we all agreed on having her use more magic, i've come up with stuff that could benefit her new playstyle while giving her more variety in her tool kit to mix up opponents or force them into unfavorable situations once she is actually all set up. - Spoiler:
Entrance - Ashley rides down on her broom, which then turns into her wand as she jumps down to touch the floor.
Jab 1 - Untouched. Ashley hits with her wand downwards
Jab 2 - New. Ashley hits with her wand upwards to increase the jab mix up potential.
S Tilt - Untouched.
U Tilt - Points to the floor and creates a flame pillar from Down Smash
D Tilt - Untouched. Drops a Potion to crack at the floor
Dash Attack - Untouched for the most part. Ashley trips, which damages opponents as she tumbles forwards. Red is removed from this. End lag reduced dramatically
Get-Up Attack - Untouched.
Edge Attack - Untouched.
F Smash - Casts Magic on the floor, causing Fire to advance and travel forward. Uncharged is a single blast similar to Lucas' Down Smash. Full Charge has the Fire Appear and reapper set distances kind of like a slow Smash 4 Duck Hunt F-Smash. The Fire stops travelling if it meets a ledge.
U Smash - Slight Buff of sorts. The thunderbolt cloud is summoned and stays in place normally, but Ashley can now input Up Smash twice to summon and discharge thunder in one motion rather than having to wait for the endlag before she can input it again. Charging this move grants the cloud more height so that it can cover more vertical room similar to Pikachu's Down B. Ashley gets a "Toasted" animation upon "Self-hit" similar to Ness' Teleport entrance, inviting placers to use it as a set up rather than a fast but laggy attack.
D Smash - Casts Magic on the Floor, causing a Fire Carpet to stay in place. Foes that step on it get launched, but it will never KO. Charge gives it duration, with the uncharge version only staying the same amount as a D-Tilt at best. If deemed too powerful, it could be given the property to also hit Ashley like Snake's Down Smash Land Mine.
N Air - Untouched with a minor buff. Ashley stays in the kick position for a little longer obtaining a lingering hitbox similar to Wario's in Smash Bros. If she lands, she falls on her butt as a drawback.
F Air - A sparkle of magic appears a good distance away (Very disjointed), but it actually pulls people towards her. This move is to used in conjunction with Up Smash, Pulling them into the thunder cloud.
B Air - Untouched.
D Air - Untouched. It's perfect as is
U Air - Untouched.
Grab - Her wand transforms into Red, who then moves forward in an attempt to grab the opponent. Succesful or not, he goes back to her before she can act again, working practically like a Tether but without the Z-Air recovery.
Red holds the opponent in place with magic WITHOUT returning to Ashley, effectively holding the opponent a set distance away.
Pummel - Red headbutts the opponent
F Throw - Simply tosses the enemy away with magic. Weak throw.
B Throw - Moves behind the opponent and Tackle/headbutts his way back to ashley.
D Throw - Red Jumps over the opponent and Body slams/Ground pounds them.
U Throw - Lifts foe over him and stabs with his trident.
N Special: Random Spell. Ashley lifts and spins her wand preparing and charging a random spell. Players can tell what effect it has by a colored sparkle appearing on the tip of the wand. She can keep charge to shoot at any point similar to a Samus Charge Shot. Spells range from the original Thunder jolt, a gust of ice and even a "backfire" explosion that leaves ashley stunned and toasted, but is capable of relatively early KOs.
S Special: A Small Flash of light appears a small distance away, giving Ashley a command grab akin to Mewtwo's Disable but it only hits a set distance away. It holds opponents in place for a small period of time, allowing Ashley to properly Set up her Up Smash or N Special.
D Special: Spins wand all around her, reflecting incoming projectiles back at her enemies.
U Special: Mostly Untouched. Ashley ride's her Broom, but can cancel it into an aerial. Afterwards, she enters freefall though.
Taunt - Ashley brings a finger to her lips and she hushes the audience.
|
| | | | SP
3856
cellularSP
| | Subject: Re: Ashley Discussion Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:46 pm | |
| Ashley definitely needs a moveset revamp (at the very least), her current moveset is a mishmash of random stuff and there was no real playstyle in mind when it was developed (a counter was probably the worst idea)
if I were to suggest anything it would be to move away from the combo-heavy playstyle she has (theres already plenty of fast, combo-based characters) and move towards a more trap-based/status condition playstyle, which is much more in character for her in my opinion; she could keep the terribly short-range melee attacks and in exchange have access to powerful ranged attacks and be able to rack up damage with poison and such, and then utilize stun/sleep to get in close for the melee attacks to KO |
| | | | Iron Joe
Level 2 CPU
43
WarriorWare
| | Subject: Re: Ashley Discussion Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:31 pm | |
| Did the update change her at all? |
| | | | Alexander
620
KingTremolo
| | Subject: Re: Ashley Discussion Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:25 am | |
| It did, yeah. I'm not sure the details, but there are a bunch of things, like thunder cloud setups now. |
| | | | Iron Joe
Level 2 CPU
43
WarriorWare
| | Subject: Re: Ashley Discussion Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:32 pm | |
| What I've been told so far is that:
-Her aerials have been switched around
-Her Up Smash has a hitbox before the lightning strike
-Her Down Air has a projectile
-Her Side B is "more of a power-up than a projectile" and I have no idea what the person who told me that meant |
| | | | Azure_Raven
 Level 4 CPU
103
| | Subject: Re: Ashley Discussion Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:39 pm | |
| Would it be alright if I could leave a few suggestions as for some moveset changes?
In Game & Wario, in her minigame ASHLEY, I noticed two things that could be implemented/altered in Crusade. The first thing is that Ashley sits on her broom a bit different than what's in Crusade. Perhaps this could be changed? The second thing is that in the minigame, Ashley can loop upward or downward, and this could be implemented in Crusade with Ashley ending her recovery in an upward loop. This may result in the recovery move being altered for balancing purposes, however.
In the latest game, Warioware Gold, there's a minigame called Pumpkin Panic, which stars Ashley protecting a patch of pumpkins from mandrakes. Her attacks consist of shooting a spell that turns the enemies into pumpkins and kicking them into other enemies. Perhaps this can be implemented as a special or in one of her throws? For instance, if it becomes a side move, it temporarily turns an opponent into a pumpkin, which acts similar to Yoshi's egg state. The higher the damage, the longer they remain in pumpkin form, unless they escape or something attacks them. This could set Ashley for a combo. Otherwise, it could act as a throw, like Ashley turning the opponent into a pumpkin and kicking them away. |
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