The Hunter (Metal Max Returns) Discussion - Tanks for the Memories

The Hunter is the unnamed central protagonist of the Super Famicom RPG Metal Max Returns, itself a remake of the Famicom classic Metal Max. The son of a mechanic in a post-apocalyptic wasteland known as Crime Country, he and a small group of allies travel across the land in their heavily-modified tanks, hunting down mutants for their bounties and ultimately destroying the supercomputer Noah responsible for the apocalypse.

The series itself isn't well-known enough to justify representation (though it IS excellent), but my moveset should be enough to do that.

Jab - Punches with a bare fist. Pretty weak, but it's fast at least (but not enough to combo into itself).
Forward Tilt - Quick shoulder bash. Moves you forward slightly.
Up Tilt - Swipes a survival knife overhead. Quick startup.
Down Tilt - Kicks forward. Comboes into itself.

Neutral Aerial - Twirls a steel whip around. Great range, but lots of endlag and landing lag.
Forward Aerial - Swipes with a steel claw. Good knockback, KOs at high percents.
Back Aerial - Swipes behind himself with a cutlass. Covers a wide arc.
Up Aerial - Does a midair uppercut. Low damage and knockback but comes out quickly and has high priority.
Down Aerial - Fires off an Uzi downwards. Has great downward range and lasts a while, but has a lot of landing lag.

Forward Smash - Fires a shotgun. Great range for a smash, but lots of ending lag as he puts the shotgun away.
Up Smash - Swings an axe overhead, starting behind and ending in front. Great damage, but very slow.
Down Smash - Swipes behind, then in front with a Lightsaber (that's actually what it's called ingame). Good damage and knockback, quick.

Dash Attack - Makes a wild swing with a dagger as he skids to a stop.

Grab - Basic grab.
Pummel - Makes a body blow with a free hand.
Forward Throw - Tosses the opponent forward, then fires a Rocket Punch after them.
Back Throw - Does a suplex.
Up Throw - Punts the opponent upwards.
Down Throw - Slams them down, then fires his shotgun at them.

Down Special - Drive/Detank

This one's coming first because it is, in many ways, the crux of the Hunter's moveset. The Hunter does not spawn on his own, but riding his tank, the Mosquito. This tank is only slightly larger than he is, and his moveset is completely different while he's riding it. He has only one A move - He fires a machine gun mounted on the top of the tank. This does good damage, but does not launch when released, and it pushes the opponent away while attacking, eventually pushing them out of the weapon's limited range. It also fires fairly high up, and can be crouched under or even avoided entirely by shorter characters. This sets the tone for many of the tank's moves - powerful, but with notable drawbacks. The tank is extremely slow and has weak jumps, but deals damage to anyone it hits while moving.

With his down special, the Hunter exits the tank and leaves it where it is, or reenters it when he is near it. At all times, the tank also acts as a platform with walls, meaning it can be tactically placed to helped the detanked Hunter with combos. In addition, whether the Hunter is riding the tank or not, its Ambush System will fire up to 20 missiles automatically (one at a time) to intercept projectiles fired by other players that get too close. Once it's out of missiles, it can no longer intercept anything. The tank is not invincible. When it takes 200% damage, it is destroyed in an explosion, and will not respawn until the Hunter does. The explosion will damage anyone except the person who landed the final blow. If the Hunter is riding the tank, he will take even more damage and almost certainly be KO'd.

Neutral Special - Grenade/Fiveless 5

When detanked, this move has the Hunter toss a grenade. This is similar to Snake's grenade, but it detonates as soon as it hits anything rather than being usable as an item.

When in the tank, this causes the tank to fire a plasma shot. It's extremely powerful, but slow, and if it's shielded at all it is reflected back at the Mosquito faster than most players will be able to evade. It can only be fired up to 8 times before it runs out of ammo.

Side Special - Boomerang Wrench/Flamethrower

When detanked, the Hunter tosses a wrench underhand in an arc before it returns to his hand. It strikes enemies it hits multiple times.

When in the tank, it engages a flamethrower. This stays active for as long as the button is held and automatically sweeps slowly up and down. The tank can move while this is happening, but cannot use any other moves. This move can be used for 30 total seconds before the oil runs out.

Up Special - Sonic Boom/Eject

When detanked, the Hunter fires a sonic weapon in waves downwards, propelling him upward as he does so. It has low range, but it spikes those it hits.

When in the tank, the Hunter leaps out of the tank, getting a lot of air in the process. He can also use any move, including his detanked up special, again afterwards.

Final Smash - Laser Satellite Strike

The Hunter hits the Laser button on his BS Controller, striking the center of the field with a huge laser from a satellite. This does huge amounts of damage and launches at the end, but can be avoided by simply staying near the sides of the field.

I don't think the moveset justifies the inclusion. I feel like there'd be a more relevant character that can do some of it better. Like, Chris Redfield, maybe? But for my full thoughts on the moveset..

Neutral Special is a splendid idea. I really do like it, it sounds really fun. Side Special, meanawhile, is kinda lame. It's a simple grenade throw but with a drawback unlike Snake. Up Special is pretty good compared to the majority of recoveries.

Now for the tank specials...
Neutral Special in the tank is kinda useless except if it's being aimed at an air enemy. It's obviously going to be a move that can be predicted and deflected easily which will only result in trouble for the Hunter. Side Special in the tank is a cool idea, not much to say on it. Up Special in the tank is boring but practical. The Final Smash should move around a little imo, Final Smashes are MEANT to be OP.

Neutrals, on the other hand, are pretty cool. It's got a big focus on guns and general military stuff, which I like, but as I said, why can't a character like Chris Redfield do that?

The character itself is a complete no. Metal Max seems to be completely unknown and I see no reason on why it should be represented. At all. But I'm glad you've acknowledged that.

Overall, I'd like to, but I can't support. It's mostly the character really, and the fact a more iconic and loved character like Chris Redfield who I've bought up 3 times could do everything except the Specials better.

The tank gimmick is the real pull of it, I think, and there's really not too many other characters that could pull it off. Somebody from Advance Wars, maybe, but that would be pushing it.

Kzinssie wrote:

The tank gimmick is the real pull of it, I think, and there's really not too many other characters that could pull it off. Somebody from Advance Wars, maybe, but that would be pushing it.

Exactly. That's the big thing about this moveset. But that's the only thing helping support this character. That's the main thing that no other character can do, and really if the only big thing about this guy is a few moves in a tank, which I admit to really liking, it doesn't make sense to put him in.

I kinda think a relatively unknown character would fit in well with the game's established cast. Having somebody who makes the player go "who the fuck is this?", try them out, enjoy them, and then maybe even be encouraged to seek out the original series would be an interesting niche.

Personally, I think that if we get a character that makes the player go "who the fuck is this?" it should be a character that Nintendo owns, like Muddy Mole or Tin Star or Hakkun or maybe even Diskun.

Hey, I had that "Who the Fuck is this?" moment when I originally joined, I had absolutely no idea who or what Klonoa was...

OmegaSteve777 wrote:

Personally, I think that if we get a character that makes the player go "who the fuck is this?" it should be a character that Nintendo owns, like Muddy Mole or Tin Star or Hakkun or maybe even Diskun.

This is a fair point, but the problem is that Nintendo explores its own history so much that most of its characters are well-known, one way or another. Maybe most people don't know too much about them, but the average Nintendo fan (at the level where they'd even take an interest in Crusade) at least knows who Muddy Mole and Diskun are.

That said, Donbe and Hikari might be interesting... but I'd need to get good enough at Japanese to play through their whole game first before I can make a moveset, lol

Kzinssie wrote:

OmegaSteve777 wrote:

Personally, I think that if we get a character that makes the player go "who the fuck is this?" it should be a character that Nintendo owns, like Muddy Mole or Tin Star or Hakkun or maybe even Diskun.

This is a fair point, but the problem is that Nintendo explores its own history so much that most of its characters are well-known, one way or another. Maybe most people don't know too much about them, but the average Nintendo fan (at the level where they'd even take an interest in Crusade) at least knows who Muddy Mole and Diskun are.

That said, Donbe and Hikari might be interesting... but I'd need to get good enough at Japanese to play through their whole game first before I can make a moveset, lol

Really the only reason for this guy is "surprise", and I mean we've got enough shockers in this cast as it is. I don't understand why we NEED a character who will make the player go "who is this" and if we do I see no reason on why it should be this specific dude.

The second reason is that I made an interesting moveset (at least, I like to think I did).

Kzinssie wrote:

The second reason is that I made an interesting moveset (at least, I like to think I did).

Which I agreed with. But a moveset should not decide if a character gets in or not. If a terrible choice has a great moveset, it still should not get in. You have to focus on the character as well.

I really like the moveset; the idea of a character that controls differently in and out of a tank is very Blaster Master, a game I adore. I'd still support Hunter over Jason form BM, though, since it appears Hunter's got a fair bit more content for his moveset, even though Jason and SOPHIA the 3rd are arguably more visually distinctive.

Maybe the character doesn't deserve it, maybe this goes against things I've said in the past, maybe I just don't want Chris Redfield in Crusade, but for whatever reason, I like the moveset enough to give a support.

Naughty Ottsel wrote:

I really like the moveset; the idea of a character that controls differently in and out of a tank is very Blaster Master, a game I adore. I'd still support Hunter over Jason form BM, though, since it appears Hunter's got a fair bit more content for his moveset, even though Jason and SOPHIA the 3rd are arguably more visually distinctive.

Oh my god, if a Blaster Master characters gets playable in Crusade, I will legit shit my pants.