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Athorment

Athorment

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PostSubject: Re: Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion   Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 28, 2018 7:05 pm

OmegaSteve777 wrote:
Yes, there are logic about those characters on the development side of things, but Sakurai isn't doing things by numbers. If characters were added because of high number of games, Golden Sun and Advance Wars would've gotten in before Pikmin or Ice Climber. I think that was my original point re-explained. I'm tired.

You can't compare two separate franchises and say your point is valid when we are comparing characters within the same games.

Specially when "said numbers" vary for Sakurai himself. Sometimes it's the latest (Pikmin in Brawl), Sometimes it's the sales (Wii Fit Trainer), Sometimes he doesn't care if a franchise is obscure as long as the character has a unique gimmick that makes them stand out gameplay wise (Ice Climbers).

While i agree on principle that saying "Daisy should be in the game because she's more important than Waluigi, who is already in" is not enough of a reason, you guys just cherry pick your points to make your arguments appear logical.

You don't count Super Mario Land because of personal Bias, for instance.

Specially when Smash Bros Ultimate saw King K. Rool added because of Fan demand, and that guy is almost as even more irrelevant than the likes of Waluigi or Daisy, who at least had constant appearances in Spin offs.

There's also something poetic about dismissing Daisy because of "relevancy" when she made it as an Echo fighter into Ultimate, and Waluigi did not.

So to put it into perspective for both sides of this discussion, relevancy can go out the window when we are expecting a Piranha Plant on February as DLC.

If there's enough fan demand, Crusade would add whoever into the game. We did add Crash Bandicoot, Ray Man and Spyro before everyone wanted them for Smash 4 DLC or as an Ultimate Newcomer afterall.

_________________
lego shaq wrote:
look without "BUT X CHARACTER NEEDS TO BE IN FIRST" goggles.

Athorment wrote:
Those "More deserving ones" will get votes regardless of circumstances, so i suggest supporting who you want in regardless of popularity

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OmegaSteve777
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OmegaSteve777

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PostSubject: Re: Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion   Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 28, 2018 9:12 pm

Here let's get the thread back on track...

If Daisy were added to Super Smash Bros. Crusade, she should be either a semi-clone or Luigi levels of not being a clone. Of course Crusade doesn't really have any clones so that would be expected... I feel like fan movesets don't really portray Daisy well, but maybe someone will come up with something better than from what I've personally seen.
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kirbydaistar64
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PostSubject: Re: Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion   Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion - Page 2 EmptyTue Jan 01, 2019 8:00 pm

OmegaSteve777 wrote:
Here let's get the thread back on track...

If Daisy were added to Super Smash Bros. Crusade, she should be either a semi-clone or Luigi levels of not being a clone. Of course Crusade doesn't really have any clones so that would be expected... I feel like fan movesets don't really portray Daisy well, but maybe someone will come up with something better than from what I've personally seen.

Well, if you see well, the move set of waluigi in srusade does not represent the character well, and has very bagos and generic movements, that is to say even mario and peach make sense in their jabs, but waluigi no, the truth is that waluigi in crusade it does not look good at all, besides that several of its movements are simple variations of other characters, the bob-omb and the racket of peach, the jump of mario, and a lot of blows with little representation, if there was some potential in waluigi it just was not used
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kirbydaistar64
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Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion   Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion - Page 2 EmptyTue Jan 01, 2019 8:19 pm

Athorment wrote:
OmegaSteve777 wrote:
Yes, there are logic about those characters on the development side of things, but Sakurai isn't doing things by numbers. If characters were added because of high number of games, Golden Sun and Advance Wars would've gotten in before Pikmin or Ice Climber. I think that was my original point re-explained. I'm tired.

You can't compare two separate franchises and say your point is valid when we are comparing characters within the same games.

Specially when "said numbers" vary for Sakurai himself. Sometimes it's the latest (Pikmin in Brawl), Sometimes it's the sales (Wii Fit Trainer), Sometimes he doesn't care if a franchise is obscure as long as the character has a unique gimmick that makes them stand out gameplay wise (Ice Climbers).

While i agree on principle that saying "Daisy should be in the game because she's more important than Waluigi, who is already in" is not enough of a reason, you guys just cherry pick your points to make your arguments appear logical.

You don't count Super Mario Land because of personal Bias, for instance.

Specially when Smash Bros Ultimate saw King K. Rool added because of Fan demand, and that guy is almost as even more irrelevant than the likes of Waluigi or Daisy, who at least had constant appearances in Spin offs.

There's also something poetic about dismissing Daisy because of "relevancy" when she made it as an Echo fighter into Ultimate, and Waluigi did not.

So to put it into perspective for both sides of this discussion, relevancy can go out the window when we are expecting a Piranha Plant on February as DLC.

If there's enough fan demand, Crusade would add whoever into the game. We did add Crash Bandicoot, Ray Man and Spyro before everyone wanted them for Smash 4 DLC or as an Ultimate Newcomer afterall.

then I will expose the points of why daisy deserves to be in both smash crusade and in smash bros


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Braystar
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PostSubject: Re: Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion   Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion - Page 2 EmptyTue Jan 01, 2019 8:23 pm

Athorment wrote:
If there's enough fan demand, Crusade would add whoever into the game. We did add Crash Bandicoot, Ray Man and Spyro before everyone wanted them for Smash 4 DLC or as an Ultimate Newcomer afterall.
Spyro? Did you just leak a character that's in the works?
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OmegaSteve777
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PostSubject: Re: Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion   Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 02, 2019 1:28 am

kirbydaistar64 wrote:
OmegaSteve777 wrote:
Here let's get the thread back on track...

If Daisy were added to Super Smash Bros. Crusade, she should be either a semi-clone or Luigi levels of not being a clone. Of course Crusade doesn't really have any clones so that would be expected... I feel like fan movesets don't really portray Daisy well, but maybe someone will come up with something better than from what I've personally seen.

Well, if you see well, the move set of waluigi in srusade does not represent the character well, and has very bagos and generic movements, that is to say even mario and peach make sense in their jabs, but waluigi no, the truth is that waluigi in crusade it does not look good at all, besides that several of its movements are simple variations of other characters, the bob-omb and the racket of peach, the jump of mario, and a lot of blows with little representation, if there was some potential in waluigi it just was not used

Waluigi isn't very creative or interesting in Crusade. This also applies to a small handful of other characters like Gooey or Rayman. I do believe a lot of characters deserve reworks, whenever they get a resprite.

Waluigi's neutral special is bad, his side special is lame, and his down special could easily fit into a down tilt or smash. His up special is probably his best special move. Waluigi has potential... Crusade just doesn't quite show it.

His neutral special (or maybe even just his standard jab) could be a tennis racket swing that reflects projectiles and has decent knockback when it hits someone.

I could go more into things I would change about Waluigi, but I'm sure Crusade will nail it whenever Waluigi gets his resprite.
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PostSubject: Re: Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion   Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 03, 2019 6:02 pm

OmegaSteve777 wrote:
kirbydaistar64 wrote:
OmegaSteve777 wrote:
Here let's get the thread back on track...

If Daisy were added to Super Smash Bros. Crusade, she should be either a semi-clone or Luigi levels of not being a clone. Of course Crusade doesn't really have any clones so that would be expected... I feel like fan movesets don't really portray Daisy well, but maybe someone will come up with something better than from what I've personally seen.

Well, if you see well, the move set of waluigi in srusade does not represent the character well, and has very bagos and generic movements, that is to say even mario and peach make sense in their jabs, but waluigi no, the truth is that waluigi in crusade it does not look good at all, besides that several of its movements are simple variations of other characters, the bob-omb and the racket of peach, the jump of mario, and a lot of blows with little representation, if there was some potential in waluigi it just was not used

Waluigi isn't very creative or interesting in Crusade. This also applies to a small handful of other characters like Gooey or Rayman. I do believe a lot of characters deserve reworks, whenever they get a resprite.

Waluigi's neutral special is bad, his side special is lame, and his down special could easily fit into a down tilt or smash. His up special is probably his best special move. Waluigi has potential... Crusade just doesn't quite show it.

His neutral special (or maybe even just his standard jab) could be a tennis racket swing that reflects projectiles and has decent knockback when it hits someone.

I could go more into things I would change about Waluigi, but I'm sure Crusade will nail it whenever Waluigi gets his resprite.

but it is not just crusade, there is very little potential for waluigi, even one of the "best" trachos has forced movements that do not fit the character, and as I said before, the only unique ability of waluigi is the purple smoke bomb , the rest is just a combination of regular movements that any other character can do and those same characters are more important

I do not think either that Waluigi, which to top it off, deserves a re sprite before more important characters enter, that is, the reasons for which this is vague and unconvincing, which tells us again that it is only for favoritism

You should give a list with reasons why Waluigi is here and you see her deny that of Daisy, I would consider it but nobody gives me any weighty reasons
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OmegaSteve777
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PostSubject: Re: Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion   Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 03, 2019 10:45 pm

I believe Waluigi is here because, well, people like how weird Waluigi is. He's a very strange Mario character, and despite how stupid of an idea he is, people really do like Waluigi. You say Waluigi can't work in Smash Bros., but that just kinda shows that you just haven't thought about it much. Most of the Mario casts' moves are just made up anyway, for example Peach's side special, Bowser's side special, and heck Mario's old down special isn't anything he's really done in the games. Sure Mario has spun around before, like in Mario 64 and Mario World, but not quite the same way he does it in Smash 64 and Melee. I must point out that I don't deny Daisy in Crusade, I just want her to be different from her Ultimate counterpart (not a clone). My only real point against her is that she is already in Smash Bros. Ultimate, so I development time should go into someone else.

I don't understand your point of "the rest is just a combination of regular movements that any other character can do and those same characters are more important" because couldn't the same apply to Daisy? I guess she could take things from Super Mario Land, but I'm not sure how of a moveset you could pull from just that game. I know you'll point out that she has flowers, and no other Mario character can use flowers, but I just don't agree with how that alone makes her unique.

I feel like how Waluigi could be different from other characters is just to make his attacks as absurd as possible. Make him break dance for his down smash. Put a rose in his mouth for his neutral aerial. Have him pelvic thrust for his side tilt. Make his moveset absurd, just like the idea of his character. Have Waluigi do things that the other Mario characters couldn't do. The idea of Mario doing a crotch chop is absurd, but having Waluigi do it is perfectly okay, because he's weird and out-there.

If you're saying that Waluigi doesn't have potential, then I think you just don't understand Waluigi's character. Waluigi does have a unique ability, it's called being Waluigi. Daisy has potential too, I just haven't any movesets to completely back it up. I get it, you like Daisy, and I do now agree that Daisy is more important than Waluigi (even if only but a small amount). But I also believe that you saying that Waluigi can't be unique is an untrue statement. Sure, I guess Waluigi has no real reason to be in Crusade, other than the developers wanting to put him in, and y'know what? I'm fine with that. If silly decisions like that weren't made, then Gooey wouldn't be in the game, and Gooey is amazing. Smash fan games get the benefit of not having every choice make sense as being part of the fun, and if you disagree, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
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PostSubject: Re: Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion   Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 04, 2019 12:46 pm

OmegaSteve777 wrote:
I believe Waluigi is here because, well, people like how weird Waluigi is. He's a very strange Mario character, and despite how stupid of an idea he is, people really do like Waluigi. You say Waluigi can't work in Smash Bros., but that just kinda shows that you just haven't thought about it much. Most of the Mario casts' moves are just made up anyway, for example Peach's side special, Bowser's side special, and heck Mario's old down special isn't anything he's really done in the games. Sure Mario has spun around before, like in Mario 64 and Mario World, but not quite the same way he does it in Smash 64 and Melee. I must point out that I don't deny Daisy in Crusade, I just want her to be different from her Ultimate counterpart (not a clone). My only real point against her is that she is already in Smash Bros. Ultimate, so I development time should go into someone else.

I don't understand your point of "the rest is just a combination of regular movements that any other character can do and those same characters are more important" because couldn't the same apply to Daisy? I guess she could take things from Super Mario Land, but I'm not sure how of a moveset you could pull from just that game. I know you'll point out that she has flowers, and no other Mario character can use flowers, but I just don't agree with how that alone makes her unique.

I feel like how Waluigi could be different from other characters is just to make his attacks as absurd as possible. Make him break dance for his down smash. Put a rose in his mouth for his neutral aerial. Have him pelvic thrust for his side tilt. Make his moveset absurd, just like the idea of his character. Have Waluigi do things that the other Mario characters couldn't do. The idea of Mario doing a crotch chop is absurd, but having Waluigi do it is perfectly okay, because he's weird and out-there.

If you're saying that Waluigi doesn't have potential, then I think you just don't understand Waluigi's character. Waluigi does have a unique ability, it's called being Waluigi. Daisy has potential too, I just haven't any movesets to completely back it up. I get it, you like Daisy, and I do now agree that Daisy is more important than Waluigi (even if only but a small amount). But I also believe that you saying that Waluigi can't be unique is an untrue statement. Sure, I guess Waluigi has no real reason to be in Crusade, other than the developers wanting to put him in, and y'know what? I'm fine with that. If silly decisions like that weren't made, then Gooey wouldn't be in the game, and Gooey is amazing. Smash fan games get the benefit of not having every choice make sense as being part of the fun, and if you disagree, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

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PostSubject: Re: Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion   Daisy [Super Mario Bros.] Discussion - Page 2 EmptyThu Jun 13, 2019 1:26 am

just for put this here, daisy is ranked number 15 of the favorite characters, where neither rosalina nor waluigi are in the top 20, it seems that there are even more reasons for this in crusade, being waluigi really daisy deserves it more


https://japanesenintendo.com/2019/02/21/kirby-voted-most-popular-character-of-all-time/...
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