who would fit most out of all

okay, I'm going to leave  a poll for the community to vote on for at least until the end of the week or so, I'm asking all of you to give me an outside perspective on who out of all these options deserves to be in crusade the most, and then I'll come up with a kit, as this time I really want an idea of what people might want to see made into a kit before I put all that effort into an idea and a concept only for it to be shot down by lack of interest... again.

1. Sonic.exe (parallel/opposite character to Weegee)
2. Raichu (representative of of more "competitive" pokemon as well as testing the idea for a third character form for a slot)
3. Heihachi (Representative character for Namco fighters)
4. Shovel knight (indie representative)
5. Robotnic/eggman (sonic villain)
6. Rundas (Extra Metroid character)

Um, Comment, if you want Rundas, it seems I can't edit this poll

An extra Metroid character is unneeded.

Please never suggest Sonic.EXE again.

Having all three Pikachu forms before we get other Pokemon would be very weird to say the least.

Eggman would be cool, actually.

I love his game, but people act like Shovel Knight is the god of Nintendo indies...here's the thing; He has one game, that is multiplatform, that has no Nintendo exclusive features. It's not even Japanese.

This leaves us with Heihachi, who would be really nice, actually.

meh, I thought Exe would be a neat kit and an interesting parallel to Weegee, but don't get me wrong, the story he comes from is complete garbage, I just pondered what it would be like

Lego Shaq wrote:

I love his game, but people act like Shovel Knight is the god of Nintendo indies...here's the thing; He has one game, that is multiplatform, that has no Nintendo exclusive features. It's not even Japanese.

Heretic! How dare you!

armatage wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

I love his game, but people act like Shovel Knight is the god of Nintendo indies...here's the thing; He has one game, that is multiplatform, that has no Nintendo exclusive features. It's not even Japanese.

Heretic! How dare you!

Uh, is this sarcastic?

It may be, but then again, he suggested Xan from Unreal Tournament, of all things, so what do I know?

TrinitroMan wrote:

It may be, but then again, he suggested Xan from Unreal Tournament, of all things, so what do I know?

These types of comments tend to scare people away which is something we don't want. Stop.

Shovel Knight please!

Lego Shaq wrote:

armatage wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

I love his game, but people act like Shovel Knight is the god of Nintendo indies...here's the thing; He has one game, that is multiplatform, that has no Nintendo exclusive features. It's not even Japanese.

Heretic! How dare you!

Uh, is this sarcastic?

From me, yes, from the church of the spade.... um... best of luck to you then.

Dustination wrote:

TrinitroMan wrote:

It may be, but then again, he suggested Xan from Unreal Tournament, of all things, so what do I know?

These types of comments tend to scare people away which is something we don't want. Stop.

Um, since you are the main developer and you've at least looked at my post, I must ask, what did you vote for?

Gee wizz, who am I gonna vote for? There's a creepypasta, a big orange Pikachu, a Playstation fighting game character who I actually do really like, a Sonic rep I would actually support... and a Metroid character I had to look up who isn't actually in the poll itself.

Wait, is that...? I think...

Yes, it is!

The character I already made a a suggestion for, who is 17th out of 50-something on the support popularity statistics, my homeboy...

SHOVEL KNIGHT!!

Yo Lego Shaq: What, pray tell, is the god of Nintendo indies, if not Shovel Knight? He doesn't have Nintendo exclusive features yet, and what the @#$% does being Japanese-developed have to do with anything? In what way would the devs being Japanese make the game any more of a superb game made of nostalgic homage to classic Nintendo? And Nintendo-exclusivity is out the window (good riddance). Near as I can tell, what's more important is overall relevance to the Smash fanbase (check), as well as originality (check), a quality moveset (I'd like to think so, and I'm pretty sure other people do think so), and, obviously, vocal support for the character on these forums (see above ranking on support stats).

Naughty Ottsel wrote:

Gee wizz, who am I gonna vote for? There's a creepypasta, a big orange Pikachu, a Playstation fighting game character who I actually do really like, a Sonic rep I would actually support... and a Metroid character I had to look up who isn't actually in the poll itself.

Wait, is that...? I think...

Yes, it is!

The character I already made a a suggestion for, who is 17th out of 50-something on the support popularity statistics, my homeboy...

SHOVEL KNIGHT!!

Yo Lego Shaq: What, pray tell, is the god of Nintendo indies, if not Shovel Knight? He doesn't have Nintendo exclusive features yet, and what the @#$% does being Japanese-developed have to do with anything? In what way would the devs being Japanese make the game any more of a superb game made of nostalgic homage to classic Nintendo? And Nintendo-exclusivity is out the window (good riddance). Near as I can tell, what's more important is overall relevance to the Smash fanbase (check), as well as originality (check), a quality moveset (I'd like to think so, and I'm pretty sure other people do think so), and, obviously, vocal support for the character on these forums (see above ranking on support stats).

Chill out, dude.

There is no God of Nintendo indies. And, what? I never said the devs being Japanese would be better? I meant to say that the game is not even translated into Japanese yet, so it's fanbase is completely American. Shovel Knight's "relevance" is falling quick, he was a big-time want for about 2 months after the ballot, but his popularity is steadily falling.

Also, I am so sick and tired of "A LOVE LETTER 2 DE CLASSIC NINTENDO!!!!" You just described like, so many indie games.

How is he going to get Nintendo exclusive features if his game is already out for said consoles? An update? Doesn't even matter, seeing as they made sure Xbox and Playstation got exclusives, but Nintendo didn't.

Yes, Nintendo-exclusivity is out the window, but it'd be a bit weird to see that applied to an indie character who's had one game, that is only in America.

Originality and a quality moveset? Tons of other characters on this forum have that, and don't stand a chance.

Why Shovel Knight over Shantae, who's games have all been Nintendo exclusive, and the fourth one is currently going to be on Wii U and 3DS? Why Shovel Knight over Quote, the father of indie games?

Vocal support can do a lot for a lot of characters. But for a one-game, American indie character, it may be the only factor for getting said character in.

Yeah, why the hell is nobody suggesting Quote or voting for Quote?
Cave Story needs more love, damn it!

Okay, so what does having a Japanese fan-base have to do with a fangame that isn't based in Japan? If we were talking about Sm4sh, I'd agree with you that that would be a detriment to his inclusion. But Crusade isn't an official Nintendo title, and doesn't have to take into account the same things Nintendo does when it comes to audiences.

Do you have access to the results of Nintendo's Smash Ballots that the rest of us don't? How do you know people aren't still voting for him? How do you know anyone's still voting for anyone?

As for 'loveletter to classic Nintendo', as overused as it may be, it's still true, and Shovel Knight pulls it off so much better than almost any other indie game. The game is of a level of quality rivaling any official Nintendo title. For all intents and purposes, it's a Nintendo game in all but name and accessibility.

Well, yeah, it'll be an update. Yacht Club has said that they want to put exclusive content into the Wii U/3DS versions. If I remember correctly, they've even said they're working on a lot of content that isn't necessarily related to Plague of Shadows (first major expansion to Shovel Knight). And sure, they gave Playstation and X-Box exclusive stuff first. But the game itself isn't entirely inspired by classic Playstation and X-Box games. Shovel Knight, in and of itself, is Nintendo's little treat, and is considerably more than the single boss fights and armor PS and XB got.

It'd also be weird to see it applied to an anime character whose fanbase has no innate connection to the Nintendo fanbase, and who has almost no relevance to Nintendo in general...oh, wait.

I'd definitely support the shit out of Quote, less so Shantae, but that's mostly personal taste. While Shantae is definitely relevant, Shovel Knight is fresh in people's minds, and made a lasting impression with one game. Not to mention, Shantae, good as her games may be, isn't exactly a recognizable icon. Shovel Knight, on the other hand, has been made into a symbol of high-quality retro-style indie games.

Just because other characters have the same factors for getting as Shovel Knight (originality, moveset, relevance, etc.) doesn't mean his having those factors is invalidated.

When was the last Crusade update? Whenever it was, Shovel Knight came out after it. Does the fact that the devs aren't finished with the next version right now mean his game should just be forgotten? He's waned in popularity a bit, sure. When was the last time Shantae's face was plastered all over every gaming site, and everyone was uber excited about Shantae, and the majority of people even knew who she was?

TrinitroMan wrote:

Yeah, why the hell is nobody suggesting Quote or voting for Quote?
Cave Story needs more love, damn it!

Well, mind if I use your "quote" I didn't think of him, slipped my mind at the time like rundas

Naughty Ottsel wrote:

Okay, so what does having a Japanese fan-base have to do with a fangame that isn't based in Japan? If we were talking about Sm4sh, I'd agree with you that that would be a detriment to his inclusion. But Crusade isn't an official Nintendo title, and doesn't have to take into account the same things Nintendo does when it comes to audiences.

Do you have access to the results of Nintendo's Smash Ballots that the rest of us don't? How do you know people aren't still voting for him? How do you know anyone's still voting for anyone?

As for 'loveletter to classic Nintendo', as overused as it may be, it's still true, and Shovel Knight pulls it off so much better than almost any other indie game. The game is of a level of quality rivaling any official Nintendo title. For all intents and purposes, it's a Nintendo game in all but name and accessibility.

Well, yeah, it'll be an update. Yacht Club has said that they want to put exclusive content into the Wii U/3DS versions. If I remember correctly, they've even said they're working on a lot of content that isn't necessarily related to Plague of Shadows (first major expansion to Shovel Knight). And sure, they gave Playstation and X-Box exclusive stuff first. But the game itself isn't entirely inspired by classic Playstation and X-Box games. Shovel Knight, in and of itself, is Nintendo's little treat, and is considerably more than the single boss fights and armor PS and XB got.

It'd also be weird to see it applied to an anime character whose fanbase has no innate connection to the Nintendo fanbase, and who has almost no relevance to Nintendo in general...oh, wait.

I'd definitely support the shit out of Quote, less so Shantae, but that's mostly personal taste. While Shantae is definitely relevant, Shovel Knight is fresh in people's minds, and made a lasting impression with one game. Not to mention, Shantae, good as her games may be, isn't exactly a recognizable icon. Shovel Knight, on the other hand, has been made into a symbol of high-quality retro-style indie games.

Just because other characters have the same factors for getting as Shovel Knight (originality, moveset, relevance, etc.) doesn't mean his having those factors is invalidated.

When was the last Crusade update? Whenever it was, Shovel Knight came out after it. Does the fact that the devs aren't finished with the next version right now mean his game should just be forgotten? He's waned in popularity a bit, sure. When was the last time Shantae's face was plastered all over every gaming site, and everyone was uber excited about Shantae, and the majority of people even knew who she was?

warned ya, Shaq.

Shantae isn't really an indie title anymore, WayForward is significant enough to not be considered that.

Quote is probably the most well-known indie character (aside from maybe Steve if he's indie? But he's in a weird position), and Shovel Knight is one of the more recent celebrities. If we only have one indie character, it would probably be Quote... but I really don't understand how a moveset could work.


Why is this topic about indie characters?

My Thoughts:

1. Sonic.exe: No. Honestly, If I had the choice, I would cut Weegee even. Like, I'm never a supporter of removing content from a game, no matter how much I dislike it (e.x., Goku), but this is different. Weegee is literally painful to look at, and I cringe every time I play against one.

2. Raichu: We already have Pichu why do we need three freaking Pikachus.

3. Heihachi: Who the- No.

4. Shovel knight: Who I voted for, I think he deserves to be in the game, much more so than any other "indie" characters because he embodies almost everything that is great about Nintendo to the point where he feels like a Nintendo character.

5. Robotnic/eggman: I think he would be pretty cool, although 5 reps seems alot for Sonic, a series that only has one rep in the official games. I definately would be "happy" to see him in and give him a chance, but I think there are more deserving 3rd party chars. (Banjo)

6. Rundas: I'm assuming this is a Metroid character... I think 3 is fine, but it wouldn't hurt, but I don't know who this character is.

Edit: I just finished reading everything you guys said above me (I had only glanced over it b4 writing this), and I just wanted to give my thoughts on Shante and Quote

Quote: Definitely not the most, or second most, or third most, or anything close to that in terms of popularity as an indie character, because I hadn't even heard of him until somebody commented on a YT video I made saying that they wanted him in the game, (which was much after the Smash Ballot, which made a lot of these characters more popular). So yeah, never heard of him, and doesn't really look all that interesting to me.

Shante: She honestly doesn't feel like a Smash Character to me. I've seen her games, even seen Omni's Smashified, and she still doesn't look like she fits. Plus, while she does have a decent amount of games, I had no clue who she was until the ballot hype, which, in my opinion isn't a good sign. Shovel Knight on the other hand, is a character I new of WAAY before the ballot, that fits perfectly into Smash, that I would really want to see in.

AmareTSM wrote:

So yeah, never heard of him, and doesn't really look all that interesting to me.

I don't think this is a good excuse... There were a lot of major characters I had never heard of until a few years ago (Ryu, for example), and even if you never heard of the character, surely you have heard of Cave Story.


Looking back, I probably should have voted for Robotnik over Shovel Knight... but when I saw the poll, I didn't understand what Robo meant. You need to make the poll choices more clear.

^This guy gets it. Sorta. On Shovel Knight at least.

Though, I think you're taking Weegee a little too seriously. He's a joke character. Even in his original meme form he was just a joke. I'm not saying he's in any way a character I would have ever even thought about including had it been up to me, but I appreciate him for the inexplicable insanity that he is.

What would be wrong with Heihachi? The posterboy of an awesome, prevalent fighting game franchise. Needless to say, his moveset wouldn't be difficult to accommodate for Smash. I'd support him.

Just because you don't know who Quote is, or even Shantae, doesn't mean they aren't popular in their own regards. Honestly, I can only assume you're not too in touch with the indie scene if you'd never heard of Quote. Cave Story is, like, one of the most popular, memorable, iconic, and influential indie games of all time. And if you had ever played it you would see why he's interesting, and why he deserves at least a shot at representation.

As is probably apparent, I don't think Shantae should get in above Shovel Knight, but I never said she shouldn't get in at all. And I won't. Obviously I agree with you on Shovel Knight, but don't go saying "Well, I've never heard of this character, so just no. They shouldn't be in." Shantae has her own, perfectly valid reasons to be included, Shovel Knight has his. Quote, too. Don't count anyone out just because you aren't familiar with them.

Now, we can all go on all day arguing as to who should take priority in being included, and Slissith will keep on watching from the corner, eating popcorn, and the devs will just get annoyed at us for clogging up a thread on someone's poll with a debate on indies. So, I dunno, agree to disagree, Shaq? Unless you're enjoying this argument, in which case let's give Slissith a chance to refill his popcorn bag now before we have at it.

Roy wrote:

There were a lot of major characters I had never heard of until a few years ago (Ryu, for example)

This is literally the second time I see a gamer not knowing Ryu from Street Fighter.
And it's still weird for me. How can a gamer not know someone as posterboy-ish as Ryu?

keyboard not working, will debate w/b u soon

AND WE BACK, BOYS.

Alright, here I go...

Your first point, the Japanese one; You're right. I will give you that. However, it'd be very odd to see the first America-only character be an indie character with one game, regardless if its a fangame or not.

Your second point: I have seen at least 50 fan polls, one has combined numerous polls and has over 43,000 votes; all of them are steadily showing Shovel Knight falling constantly. A ton of 3rd party characters are doing better then him. All these fanpolls can tell you a ton.

Your third point: It's not a Nintendo game. I get what you were trying to say, but the reason everyone's like "IS TRU NEENTENDOH GAME" is because it's an excellent platformer, one of Nintendo's trademarks. But there's a ton of other great platformers with Shovel Knight's quality that aren't even close to Nintendo game level. Just because Shovel Knight is a masterpiece in your own opinion doesn't mean it's on Nintendo's level.

Your fourth point: Why are you acting like Shovel Knight is the best E-Shop game ever? Like, seriously, you're acting like the Wii U will plummet and fail without Shovel Knight. Even though they've said they wanna put exclusive content in, why wasn't it there in the first place?

Your fifth point: For God's sake, Goku was added in one of the first two versions, when this dev team wasn't very smart. Also, it's kinda just tradition to throw in Goku in a Smash fangame by now.

Your sixth point: Uh, Shovel Knight came out a year ago, he's not the best indie game character ever quite yet. I'm sure Shovel Knight is fresh, but Shantae will also be fresh when her new game is released very soon. Also, Shantae (will) have 4 games..Shovel Knight has 1. And Quote is the father of indie.

Your seventh point: I never said it was invalidated. I'm just saying one of his only factors is popularity, and compared to others like Quote and Shantae, they really have more of a chance then him if you subtract the meaningless popularity.

Your eighth point: Shovel Knight came out before the last Crusade update though. It came out in June, the update came out in I believe September. Shantae's face was never plastered over all gaming sites, with the majority of people knowing who she was, and being uber excited about her, but Shovel Knight's era is over.

Whew. There we go. Personally, if the mods want us to stop, then they can go ahead and tell us to, but I mean, they haven't, so if you want to keep debating with me, go ahead, it's fun.

tbh I kind off also think that Shovel Knight's era is over. He did have a sudden surge in poularity but that doesn't seem to be true anymore.

Slissith wrote:

tbh I kind off also think that Shovel Knight's era is over. He did have a sudden surge in poularity but that doesn't seem to be true anymore.

Got your popcorn, MJ?

Yeah, I mean..it was really just a fad imo.

Actually I'm all out of pop corn, which is why I decided to comment on this thread.

Slissith wrote:

I like to beat ass and eat popcorn, and I'm all out of popcorn!

Fixed.
Also, while many things about Shovel Knight is still true, I do have to object his popularity level.
Shovel Knight is still pretty popular.
In fact, he's popular enough to actually get a sequel, which is really rare in the case of indie games.

So... this has turned into an arugement over Indie characters. My opinions:
Shovel Knight: Great! But he isn't THE BEST
Shantae: AWESOME! She would fit in! (Haters, bugger off. And she's THE Indie character wanted now)
Quote: So so. He'll be a cool addition, but the above are better