Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion

TrinitroMan wrote:

GoldenYuiitusin wrote:

TrinitroMan wrote:

To be fair, though: Lego Shaq has a point.
I think that neither Shovel Knight nor Shantae should be playable in SM4SH until Quote from Cave Story becomes playable. But alas, that's already going off-topic again, so let's talk about Cloud again, shall we?

So SK fans should shut up because he's not Quote, who is somehow superior to both him AND Shantae for no real reason.

Oh no, you take that back! Cave Story is the father of all Indie games.
If Cave Story wouldn't have existed, then neither Shovel Knight nor the indie version of Shantae would exist.

While I love Quote and agree with some of the things you're saying, this is a little far fetched, don't you think?

Leafyon wrote:

TrinitroMan wrote:

GoldenYuiitusin wrote:

TrinitroMan wrote:

To be fair, though: Lego Shaq has a point.
I think that neither Shovel Knight nor Shantae should be playable in SM4SH until Quote from Cave Story becomes playable. But alas, that's already going off-topic again, so let's talk about Cloud again, shall we?

So SK fans should shut up because he's not Quote, who is somehow superior to both him AND Shantae for no real reason.

Oh no, you take that back! Cave Story is the father of all Indie games.
If Cave Story wouldn't have existed, then neither Shovel Knight nor the indie version of Shantae would exist.

While I love Quote and agree with some of the things you're saying, this is a little far fetched, don't you think?

Agreed. If Cave Story didn't exist another game probably would've paved the path for future Indie games.

GoldenYuiitusin wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

+Shuts up the rabid Shovel Knight supporters.

I love his game, love the character. But I think he's not a good idea for Smash, and after being told he's one of the most likely candidates and generally being yelled at about not supporting Shovel Knight, do you expect me to have a good opinion on the supporters?

Calm down man, not like I threw your pizza on the roof sitcom laughter

Quote :

Oh no, you take that back! Cave Story is the father of all Indie games.
If Cave Story wouldn't have existed, then neither Shovel Knight nor the indie version of Shantae would exist.

I understand how much you love Quote, but that's terrible logic. Shovel Knight could've been produced by any other company, who says it had to be indie in this hypothetical no Cave Story universe?

I understand everyone's upset over the comments between Quote, Shovel Knight, and Shantae (as for me I love all three and would be overjoyed at any of their inclusions, make no mistake), but this is getting a little off-topic. We have a Shantae thread for this.

Don't you all agree?

EDIT: As extra motivation, I say we end it here before anyone brings up Frisk.

Move the indie character arguments to other threads please
Cloud should not be tainted with such discussion

Shiruza wrote:

I understand everyone's upset over the comments between Quote, Shovel Knight, and Shantae (as for me I love all three and would be overjoyed at any of their inclusions, make no mistake), but this is getting a little off-topic. We have a Shantae thread for this.

Don't you all agree?

EDIT: As extra motivation, I say we end it here before anyone brings up Frisk.

I'm very excited for the Frisk thread so I can bury it in the ground

But you and Dust are right; just wanted to explain my reaction. Anyway...

What's there to say about Cloud right now? He'd ought to be confirmed for Crusade in my head right now.

Lego Shaq wrote:

I'm very excited for the Frisk thread so I can bury it in the ground

But you and Dust are right; just wanted to explain my reaction. Anyway...

What's there to say about Cloud right now? He'd ought to be confirmed for Crusade in my head right now.

Thank you, I understand.

Well, various move changes and the sort. We can get a rough idea from his trailer, but I suppose that bigger changes can wait for his actual release. Though I am pleasantly surprised by their inclusion of the Limit Break system. ^ ^

Side note: Should I take that as a support, or am I being too presumptuous?

Is there a support list? I didn't see one in the OP.

Maybe this is weird, but I'm considering making a u-turn and removing my support now that he's in Sm4sh... I feel like it might do Crusade some good to have a more unique rep - that is, one that isn't in another Smash game. That Chocobo Knight was neat, and I really like Kefka... hm. Still undecided.

I already supported this, and that still holds true. I also think Cloud could easily coexist alongside other FF reps, like Kefka.

Just want to say that Cloud being confirmed for Sm4sh doesn't mean anyone is confirmed to not be included. Just that the face of Final Fantasy and, arguably, JRPGs on the whole was announced first.

Shiruza wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

I'm very excited for the Frisk thread so I can bury it in the ground

But you and Dust are right; just wanted to explain my reaction. Anyway...

What's there to say about Cloud right now? He'd ought to be confirmed for Crusade in my head right now.

Thank you, I understand.

Well, various move changes and the sort. We can get a rough idea from his trailer, but I suppose that bigger changes can wait for his actual release. Though I am pleasantly surprised by their inclusion of the Limit Break system. ^ ^

Side note: Should I take that as a support, or am I being too presumptuous?

Thought I already supported. If not support.

Roy wrote:

Is there a support list? I didn't see one in the OP.

Maybe this is weird, but I'm considering making a u-turn and removing my support now that he's in Sm4sh... I feel like it might do Crusade some good to have a more unique rep - that is, one that isn't in another Smash game. That Chocobo Knight was neat, and I really like Kefka... hm. Still undecided.

..So you're basically trying to be a hipster?

I'm sorry, but, uh...not sure that's how it works. Cloud's plenty unique anyway, and hey, Pac-Man's in Smash 4, let's replace him with one of the ghosts according to your logic.

Plus, we can have multiple Final Fantasy reps. We have 3 Street Fighter reps already.

Updated the original post with a support list at the very bottom. If I've forgotten anyone of have made a mistake, please let me know and I'll fix it.

Lego Shaq wrote:

..So you're basically trying to be a hipster?

I'm sorry, but, uh...not sure that's how it works. Cloud's plenty unique anyway, and hey, Pac-Man's in Smash 4, let's replace him with one of the ghosts according to your logic.

Plus, we can have multiple Final Fantasy reps. We have 3 Street Fighter reps already.

Actually, I woulda been ok with Pac-Man being replaced with another Namco rep... Heihachi is a decent pick, but both can coexist and Pac-Man is already in the game. I think 3 Street Fighter reps is wrong... but that's not really up to me.

If we can have a lot of FF reps, of course Cloud is practically necessary. But if we only have 2 or 3, I'm not sure...

Well, Cloud is definitely recognizable, so I guess if a FF character gets in first, then it's Cloud.
Afterwards, we can always include a second FF rep, if necesary.

Roy wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

..So you're basically trying to be a hipster?

I'm sorry, but, uh...not sure that's how it works. Cloud's plenty unique anyway, and hey, Pac-Man's in Smash 4, let's replace him with one of the ghosts according to your logic.

Plus, we can have multiple Final Fantasy reps. We have 3 Street Fighter reps already.

Actually, I woulda been ok with Pac-Man being replaced with another Namco rep... Heihachi is a decent pick, but both can coexist and Pac-Man is already in the game. I think 3 Street Fighter reps is wrong... but that's not really up to me.

If we can have a lot of FF reps, of course Cloud is practically necessary. But if we only have 2 or 3, I'm not sure...

If we have 2 or 3, of COURSE Cloud is neccessary. He's literally one of most popular character of the franchise. If we have 1, Cloud is neccessary as well. There's absolutely no need to not include Cloud.

Do not allow his inclusion in Smash 4 to cloud your judgement.

...

Da Bum Tss!

With Cloud being included, only the sky is the limit.

Rain death on your opponents with Cloud's buster sword and his magic skills.

Weather

I like this idea.

I'll give a support.

Updated the main page. Thank you for your support.

So now that everyone's had a chance to play as Cloud, what recommendations can you give for revisions in the moveset?

I have a few ideas:

-Change U-Spec to Climhazard, but combine the aspects of this Cloud's Climhazard with the SSB4 Climhazard (such as moving slightly forwards before rising, having additional hits during the Limit Break version, etc.)
-Change F-Spec to Cross Slash, functioning as it does in SSB4
-Give D-Smash a Limit Break variation in the form of Finishing Touch (as it appears in Smash 4).

Thoughts?

Hmm...fair enough...but it's rubbing me a bit the wrong way that Blade Beam is locked to Limit Break.
After all, Blade Beam is Cloud's Hadouken.
Maybe make Braver his Dash Attack (I always saw Braver as an attack initiated from a run/dash) and change his current F-Smash to a reinterpretition/Sakuraization of Fire/Firaga, which is a fiery explosion caused from his hand palm (kinda like Isaac's Forward Smash in the leaked Project M Dev Build).
While charging the Forward Smash, Cloud could even do his classic spell cast animation from Final Fantasy 7.
And with those changes, Blade Beam can return to its Neutral Special spot.

TrinitroMan wrote:

Hmm...fair enough...but it's rubbing me a bit the wrong way that Blade Beam is locked to Limit Break.
After all, Blade Beam is Cloud's Hadouken.
Maybe make Braver his Dash Attack (I always saw Braver as an attack initiated from a run/dash) and change his current F-Smash to a reinterpretition/Sakuraization of Fire/Firaga, which is a fiery explosion caused from his hand palm (kinda like Isaac's Forward Smash in the leaked Project M Dev Build).
While charging the Forward Smash, Cloud could even do his classic spell cast animation from Final Fantasy 7.
And with those changes, Blade Beam can return to its Neutral Special spot.

Hm... That could be made to work. I could then use the old N-Spec's Limit Break variation as the Limit Break variation for his F-Smash.

However, that being said, I'm conflicted; as a projectile, I feel as though Fire and Firaga are more unique and give Cloud more zoning options, with their slow style complimenting his close-quarters combat style. Plus, even if Blade Beam isn't made the N-Spec, it would still be represented.

Even so however, it is a good point that it would still make sense to make it as easy to use as it is in Smash 4.

And so I'm conflicted; Gameplay, or characterization?

TrinitroMan wrote:

After all, Blade Beam is Cloud's Hadouken.

uhhh not at all. Only in Smash 4 is it presented that way. Blade Beam is one of Cloud's Limit Breaks in FF7, not some magic attack he can spam whenever he wants to. It is a super move he can only bust out on occasion. If you want to be accurate to Cloud as a character, you do it the way we did not the way smash 4 did.

Perfect Hell wrote:

TrinitroMan wrote:

After all, Blade Beam is Cloud's Hadouken.

uhhh not at all.  Only in Smash 4 is it presented that way.  Blade Beam is one of Cloud's Limit Breaks in FF7, not some magic attack he can spam whenever he wants to.  It is a super move he can only bust out on occasion.  If you want to be accurate to Cloud as a character, you do it the way we did not the way smash 4 did.

Good point; since every Limit Break can be seen as a "Special Move" in some capacity, I suppose that gives us more freedom in terms of how we can portray them and still be accurate to the source material.

In that case, Blade Beam will stay as it is, as Fire/Firaga has much more potential as a projectile. Thank you for your suggestion regardless, any input at all is welcome.

Which reminds me; Perfect Hell, I never got written confirmation in your support for this project. Would I be wrong to assume you are?

Support

Perfect Hell wrote:

Support

Thank you. I've updated the support list.


Any other ideas for representing his Smash 4 self?

EDIT: Added TaXMaN to the support list as well.

Cloud has my support.

Now that I have played him in real smash I think I can support