SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets)
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ShadowHunter Level 1 CPU
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Subject: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:49 pm
ShadowHunter here. Some of you may know me, some of you don't. I am a former expansion creator for SSF2 and one of main things I was known for on the Expansion Forums was creating movesets.
I have been studying Crappy Capture Device's videos and found out that SSB has a certain and unique pattern in creating their movesets. Super Smash Brother's movesets, without the clone and custom, they are actually creative, original, and is often well made for different characters from different series. If one knows the moveset style well, they are able to create original and unique movesets. There are a lot of things to learn about the rules of this style since the procedures are complex and requires decent amount of thinking. However, I ensure you that your movesets will improve and there will be something to be proud about.
Also I recommand to you guys to watch CrappyCaptureDevice's videos on Smash Bros history to get a perspective on how SSBM and SSBB create their movesets. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0h0eJWnFsVttgN_Vj72rAA
Disclaimer: My theory on movesets can be controversial as this has recieved criticism by some members. If you don't like this mindset of making movesets, I respect that. Think of this as some kind of religon or political party. There is a large group of people who likes this, yet there is a group of people who doesn't like it.
This is basically a journal of my mentality and thinking process on how to make good and unique expansions. This is still in development and is basically research on how SSB movesets work and how they can be used to create amazing movesets. I will show you some of my work and express my current mentality in developing it, so don't think of this as a "you have to do this to be good" type of thing. It's your choice on whether to follow this or not.
Now that that's out of the way let this class begin. Give me opinions on what you think about it.
Lesson 1: Moveset Elements
Spoiler:
Lesson 1: Moveset Elements
The first thing you should learn is about the moveset elements. Each move and special in Smash Brothers is made up of one or more of these elements. This will allow you to make a couple of specials to all characters from a character owning five fighting games to a character who never fought on foot. These are the four moveset elements:
1. Attack Animations Element This is the most common element used by developers or users making a character for a Smash game. If a character has animations of an attack in his game and can perform it in gameplay, then monkey see monkey do, he can perform it in Smash.
Sometimes, a character can perform moves outside of gameplay and perform it in cut scenes in the storyline. In this case, it can be used, but gameplay animations are preferable. For example, Link's combo and Triforce Slash is based on the final slashes on Beast Ganon in Ocarina of Time in a cut scene. It cannot be preformed during the gameplay, but is seen being used in a cut scene.
Examples: Mario's Fire Ball, Link's Arrows Samus's Screw Attack, Yoshi's Egg Lay, Ike's Aether, Bowser's Fire Breath, King DeDeDe's Super Jump, ect. Most relying characters: Mario, Kirby, Yoshi, Sonic, ect.
2. Attack Description and Effects Element: The effect element is simple. If a character can performs a move with a certain ability added to it, then it can be preformed with the certain ability.
SSB also create certain moves to retain gameplay. What this means is that the moves that are made is designed to give players the slight feeling of battle mechanics, the gameplay, and the way you play the game from the character's original games. For example, Marth's and Ike's counter was based on battle mechanics of Fire Emblem, it's not a actually move from the game. The point of doing this? To retain the battle feeling of Fire Emblem, the attacker almost always attacks first along with the defender. This was also done to Fox's neutral special, the blaster. It was used to retain the battle mechanics of StarFox, an aerial fighting shooting game. Stats are also used to retain the feeling too. Toon Link isn't faster than Link just because of decloning purposes, it was used to retain that feeling from Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. WW Link actually fights faster and the battles are more fast-paced than the ones TP Link engages in. Also, Mr. Game and Watch's animation are choppy instead of fluent to preserve the retro gaming of the Game & Watch games. You should always try to see if you can make a move and stat that preserves gameplay.
Examples: Kirby's Inhale, Zero Suit Samus's Paralyzer, Link's Gale Boomarang, ect.
The Attack Description Element relies on blocks of texts explaining the effects and motions from the character's game. It is used when attack animations cannot be provided or at least cannot be used. In this case, Pokemon, Earthbound, and Fire Emblem severely relies on this element. Earthbound's attack animations like PK Fire is a bunch of colored lines in a certain pattern, so the attack animations are useless and cannot be used for Smash. Luckily, there is a block of text that tells us about PK Fire (fire damages multiple opponents, fire comes out of fingertips). Thanks to the Attack Description Element, PK Fire was successfully translated into Brawl and is now a cameo special. This is the same to Pokemon and Fire Emblem (although attack animation is a bit better, but not fully reliable). Fire Emblem does not necessarily have bad attack animations, but some of the specials rely on blocks of text to describe the effects.
Examples: All of Ness's and Lucas's specials, Marth's Shield Breaker and Dancing Blade, some of Pikachu's and Jigglypuff's attacks, ect. Most relying characters: Ness and Lucas
3. Character Relation Element Also known as the "Borrowing Method," it could be used to expand a moveset if the character somehow learned a move from another character that won't be in the SSB game. There must be a good reason that the character may have learned this in order to properly use this. The reason is like a speculation and must have evidence that he most likely knows the borrowed move. For example: Same fighting teacher, same fighting style, family related (more effective if they're twins), or ally (is not recommended though). The speculation must be reasonable and not far-fetched.
Examples: Marth's Dolphin Slash, All of Ness's and Lucas's specials except for PK Flash and PK Freeze, Meta Knight's Drill Rush, ect. Most relying characters: Ness and Lucas
Reasonable thinking and correct use of the borrowing method: Greil, Ike's father, has taught both Ike and the Black Knight on how to fight. Since they both were taught by the same teacher, they may have had the same fighting lessons and their skills can be compared. It may be possible that Ike has learned the same moves as the Black Knight. Therefore, he can use some of the Black Knight's moves as a forward smash and up aerial.
Unreasonable thinking and far-fetched theory that is the incorrect use of the borrowing method: Mario and Captain Falcon is in the same game and met each other while training. It may be possible that Captain Falcon and Mario are friends while Captain Falcon taught Mario Falcon Punch. Since Mario can transform into Fire Mario, he uses his lesson from Captain Falcon and uses Falcon Punch in his forward aerial.
4. Representation Element: A element that is perfect and really useful for making cameo moveset to characters who have never fought on foot (Fox, Falco, Wolf, Captain Falcon, ROB). It is often based on the main object they use/drive/fight with and uses the object's abilities to use as specials. In this case, Fox's and Falco's moveset is based off the Arwing. Arwings are capable of firing lasers, boosting, and deflect enemy fire by doing a barrel roll. SSB Fox and Falco are capable of firing lasers, boosting, and deflecting fire by using a reflector. Fox's Blaster is based off the Arwing's laser cannons as both rapidly fire lasers. Fox's Fox Illusion is based off of the Arwing's ability to boost as both of them boost forward. Fox's Reflector is based off of the Arwing's ability to do a barrel roll as they both deflect enemy projectiles. Captain Falcon's moveset is based off of his F-Zero machine, the Blue Falcon. Starfox's gameplay of fighting in a spacecraft fighter in the air has been translated into a ground fighting, melee combat gameplay like Super Smash Brothers.
The main idea is to have the character imitate the thing he is representing. It takes an element from foreign gameplay, makes changes to it without affecting the effects of the element, and puts the translated move into a character by ability or weapon. The move from the representation element in SSB is usually made up; however, it still contains the main effect of the element. So make something up, just remember to contain the unchanged effects with a mixture of custom, suitable, and common sense.
Coping the abilities of an Arwing, Fox has the ability to preform a barrel roll in down special and down aerial, preform somersaults in the up smash, fire lasers in the neutral special, and boost forward in the forward special. Same thing with Captain Falcon, he could boost forward, run/drive forward very fast, and shove opponents like his Blue Falcon. Note that they have slight custom properties in their moves (Fox never had a reflector nor the ability to charge at high speeds. Also, it was unknown whether Captain Falcon is a really fast runner or could boost fast). They are basicly a custom move, but they still have the main effect to represent the object(Arwing/F-Zero machine) the character is representing.
Examples: All of the Starfox character's specials, All of Captain Falcon's specials, half of ROB's specials Most relying characters: All Starfox characters, Captain Falcon
Lesson 2: Using the Attack Description Method
Spoiler:
As mentioned before, the Attack Description element is used by the Smash series to add a move that didn't have a proper animation in the original game to copy. Some games use an attack description that explains on how the attack works. This was mainly used on characters from Earthbound and Pokemon since they didn’t use full and accurate animation to be used (Earthbound only shows PSI attacks in lines while in Pokemon, the Pokemon doesn't really move and isn't a good animation to copy). This was also used in the early Fire Emblem games where there weren’t many animations used to create an entire Smash moveset. We wouldn’t have these movesets as good as these today if there wasn’t the Attack Description element.
Before you can use this element, you must know how Smash Bros. use this element. I shall give you an example on how Brawl thinks (you should always think independently and use your imagination, but this is just a sample). You should take this into mind when you are studying a character, trying to form a moveset. Marth’s Shield Breaker (Neutral Special) is a good example:
Things to note about Marth's Shield Breaker's origin: Marth's animation on using a Rapier sword (the animation is Marth stabbing) The rapier's is effective against knights and cavalry (who has high resistance) and cause more damage to them.
With this information, this could be how one from the Smash series staff is thinking: “So Marth stabs forward in Fire Emblem when equip with the Rapier. It seems like a good side tilt to use in Melee (which is what anyone will do). However, I have found out that this attack from the rapier is effective to heavily armored enemies, so I should put this effect into consideration (He is right now thinking ahead, so he may get somewhere).
"What kind of defense does Brawl has? We only have weight and damage percentage. Wait a minute, dodging and shield can be a defensive tactic. The shield may be considered as a defense and a type of resistance in Brawl, as no attack can be inflicted on the enemy. Knights and calvary is resistant to many attacks and is doesn't take much damage. The shield is something like that Players show defense and resistance by dodging and shielding, often taking less damage so I guess that could work. So I think that the rapier stab attack from Fire Emblem should somehow cause damage and penetrate through the "bubble shield armor" in Brawl and be effective against it. (He's thinking outside the box,I'm starting to like this guy). So maybe Marth in Melee should still cause damage with an anti effect with an opponent shield. Maybe the shield should even break so that the attack is even more useful since players seem to rely on it. This seems good enough. The shield that is once a strength is now a weakness, like the resistance of knights and calvary. It's too powerful to be a side tilt though, so maybe it should be a special attack, like neutral special perhaps (I'm liking it so far)."
"So here's my idea for Marth's Neutral Special in Super Smash Brothers. Melee, he should stab his sword at his enemy, maybe charging it, and if an opponent is using a shield at that time, Marth's attack will stab through it and cause normal damage while being effective against it with shielding as a weakness, causing the shield to break. This will be the time where his opponents get stunned and dizzy because of the Smash rules, allowing Marth to create several combo opportunities (JACKPOT, AWESOME IDEA! You are not only created an epic special, but you have it with a good origin. Bravo!).
Yeah, you need to consider every effects of the move and think about how it could work in Smash. What this guy did was thought about reserving the effects of the stab attack and though how it could be translated as a Smash Brothers move. This allowed him to create a unique special that everyone loves from a common attack. Remember, any common attack in a game could be a special if it has special effects.
Also, Smash Brothers and the games the character came from may have something in common. For example, Smash and Fire Emblem (with Marth) have a way of defense. That's how they preserved the effects of Marth's stab attack and transfer it to Smash successfully. Same thing happened with Diddy Kong’s Banana toss (tripping) and loosely based ones like Jigglypuff's roll out and Ness’s PK Fire.
Lesson 3: Difference between Special and Smash attack
Spoiler:
In the Super Smash Bros. series, there are moves called special and smashes. Allow me you tell you the difference between them.
Special- There are four types of these: Offensive- Usually have extraordinary effects that makes an attack do more than just causing damage (charging, paralyzing, dashing across stage, breaks shields, ect.) or projectiles. Defensive- Can protect one from taking damage (reflect projectiles, healing, counter, ect.) Effects- Moves or attacks that comes with extraordinary effects (Kirby's inhale, Yoshi's Egg Lay, Jigglypuff''s Sing, ect.). Un-smash type animation- For attacks with animations that is unsuitable for any type of smash (Link's Spin Attack, Ike's Eruption). Recovery- Launches user up into the air and recovers them to the stage. Normally used for up specials (and sometimes other specials) (Mario's Super Punch, Diddy Kong's Rocketbarrel, ect.)
Smash- It's a chargeable attack that does nothing but a high damage (though some may contain minor effects). It contains animations that is related to the smash attack: Down Smash (attack down or both sides down), forward smash (attacks side), up smash (attack up). There are several type of smash attacks:
Normal Smash- Just a simple smash attack that deals high damage (Mario's, Donkey Kong's Captain Falcon's, Marth's, ect). It could also have the player move forward a bit for range (Kirby's, Fox's, ect). Multi-Smash- A smash attack that contains two or mulitple hits(Link's forward/up, Shiek's forward, Wolf's forward, ect). Item use- Taking out an item, using it, and putting it away. (Peach's, Ness's, Lucas's, Snake's Olimar's). Even though Olimar doesn't take out and put away his pikmin, he still throws it, so he has a item use smash. Effects smash- Smash attacks with additional effects (Zero Suit Samus's down, Roy's attacks)
Aerials/tilts/throws- It's pretty much the same same thing with some exceptions (aerials, tilts, and grabs are not chargeable). Smash and these attacks share the same principle, so you can easily assume the same thing when you read the lesson about smash. Just use common sense to determine the exceptions.
Special attacks usually have the ability to change the tide of battle with its special effects that smash attacks cannot do. This is why it is special. This could take in extraordinary effects, allowing moveset possibilities and having an easier time translating a move from a character's game into Smash. Even smash-type attacks can take place as a special (note Jigglypuff's Pound), but it just takes up space and is not recommended. Almost any type of move in a character's game can be translated as a special (except for moves that are overpowered, doesn't have elements that is in any relation with Smash's, and other reasons).
Most Smash attacks normally does nothing but knockback and damage, though you can add some effects/items and different properties. It should also be noted that most smash attacks are physical attacks. This may make the smash more unique and able to place moves with effects in the moveset without taking up the specials in the moveset. For example, there are Snake's down, up, and forward smash that could have consumed space for specials. However, Smash managed to use his mines, mortar, and a missile launcher as smash attacks, saving three special spaces. We also have Zero Suit Samus who can paralyze with her down smash. Minor effects include stunning, electrocute (Pikachu), burn (Roy), super-armor frames, and more.With a few thinking and manipulations, you can turn a special into a smash attack for movesets with a lot of moveset possibilities.
*THIS MAY JUST BE A THOERY, NOT AN OFFFICAL RULE SINCE IT IS LIKEABLE BE DISPROVEN BY SSB4* However, there are times where the animations of a certain move doesn't allow the move to be a smash attack. For example, there is Link's Spin Attack. Link spins around with his sword by the center of his body and spins, damaging opponents from both sides. How is it possible that that type of move can be a smash? It could work as a down smash since it attacks both sides, but the sword slash is in the center of his body instead of by his legs prevent that. It could be smash attack since it is by the center of his body and attacks forward, but it attacks from behind as well which is not possible in a forward smash. And without changing the original animation, how can spin attack by an up smash? There are just some non effect attacks that cannot be smash attacks. BTW, even if this problem works out, Smash would have still had it as a special since it is Link's singature move, but that is not the point.
Moveset Researching Tips:
Spoiler:
Before you think of a moveset, you must be able to know the character completely before you try to develop a moveset. There are you things you need to think about when developing a moveset: Battle style and moveset origin. You should also consider on character balancing to prevent your character from becoming too powerful or too weak, but it will not be discussed right now.
Moveset origin: First, you must form the structure of the moveset (a.k.a. specials) and look for origins first. This is important since you must actually know what the character is capable of doing and custom specials should usually be avoided. Plus it is usually easier to search for just specials as opposed to stuff like smash attacks and aerials which are based on limited-number of attacks (that has no potential of being a special) that are hard to fill up the entire moveset that includes smash and specials.
First, you must know every possible move that character can preform (and maybe even other characters for the purpose of the relation element). If you are a fanboy who played every single game the character was in, this shouldn't be a problem for you. However, if not, it is recommended that you research moveset ideas from wikis that tells you about the character and some moves that could be preformed (fanboys can use the wikia to refresh their memory). If you think the move has potential in being a special, watch the move be preformed in a walkthrough video of that move playing (if you have never seen the attack in your life). Decide if you like it or not by thinking deeply about it.
Normal original game to SSB moveset translation applies. After this, you need to consider studying the battle style of the character (which will be explained farther below) after your specials have been planned out. Then you could edit your moveset of specials for the purpose of making them more suitable for the battle style.
Then use the wikia or walkthrough video to find simple attacks for smash and aerials which has no potential in being a good special (yes, I don't support Jigglypuff's pound). All other rules in this entire tutorial applies. It is also important for you to know the entire storyline and cutscenes too. It may help you with stuff like taunts, waiting animations, or victory animations.
Battle style This requires you to be more observant than simply finding attacks in games. This requires you to figure out how the attacks were used. You need to know how your character fights. Is he fast? Is he strong? Does last long in combat? Is he aggressive? Does he usually launch barrages of attacks? Is he more of a defensive and counter-attack type? These are questions you want to ask yourself. You must know the tactics of the character on how he win his battles and what weakness he has.
You also need to know how the majority of the players play as the him. It is important that you retain the same feel that players felt when they played the original game and what tactic was often used for victory. For example, there may be two things that a character (for example: Little Mac from Punch-Out) mainly does, attack directly or evade then counterattack. The majority of people (according to the video walkthroughs) evade then counterattack as it is harder to attack directly as your attack could be blocked (you can land some hits on certain opponents).
What do you do? You make Little Mac a defensive character who relies on counterattacking. Giving him a moveset that will make him easy to score the first hit isn't suitable for Little Mac, but instead, one designed to have the opponent miss and giving his attacks that is more suitable for countering that and have it designed to discourage from rushing in landing the first hit.
In Fire Emblem, there are certain units called bishops whose main tactics are attacking with light attacks or healing wounded units. Let's watch a couple of video walkthroughs made by different players and see how the majority of the plays as a bishop.
Oh look at that, the bishop in many of the walkthroughs mainly heals while he rarely attacks (most of them are counterattacks). What does that mean. The bishop (if in SSB) will be defensive with small amount of combos (since players don't usually attack with bishops) and most of the attacks will be specifically designed to counterattack. Like Little Mac, the moveset should be one that discourages players to rush in and land the first hit but instead rely on defense, healing, and counterattacking
Further understanding of the Relation Method:
Spoiler:
Though this is an official element, it is recommended that you try to avoid using this and only use it as a last resort. It is usually used as a desperate attempt to create a cameo move in the moveset when nothing else works (SSB did this to Ness and Lucas).
The Relation Element can be divided into two categories: Conformation and Speculation.
Conformation The conformation category is when the game officially says that the character learned the move from the other character. This information is usually found in dialogue or any part of the storyline.
For example, it was stated that Greil taught both Ike (by cutscene) and the Black Knight (Greil to Black Knight: You think you can defeat a man who has taught you how to fight?). Since they both learned lessons from the same teacher, both Ike and the Black Knight may have the same fighting style and moves. Therefore, Ike can borrow some of the Black Knight's move with the support of the conformation element. This is a confirmation since it was revealed that Greil has taught both the Black Knight and Ike.
It is the better category since conformation relies on official information and proven facts, which usually allows you to borrow a move easily without hesitation. In addition, the origin of the move is strongly supported by the fact that it was actually taught by someone in the games and that it is not made-up or exaggerated.
Speculation The speculation category is where you use limited information and create a speculation on why he learned the move. In order to use this properly, there must be a good reason why he learned the move and have the speculation decently supported instead of having it end up just an unsupported fan theory. You should also ask yourself if he could learn this move. You cannot just make things up.
An example would be Ness borrowing PK Fire, PK Thunder, and PK Starstorm from his friend, Paula due to Ness's limited moves in Earthbound. There is nothing in the Earthbound storyline that suggests this, therefore it isn't in the confirmation category. However, it does contain somewhat decent information that contains this like Ness being able to use PK moves with Paula able to use PK moves as well. This is indirectly suggest that they are capable of learning each others moves (though it is worth noting that this is one of the weak speculations of SSB).
Just reading and understanding this alone will not make you an expert of this move. You have to use your own judgment and see if each move is suitable for the SSB character. Each speculation examples has different cameo support.
In order to explain this element well, I will make some things to what SSB would do in made up situations. Here are a few examples on how the relation element could be used (they are listed by order of support from greatest to least):
Strong support Same identity- If the two characters have different appearances, but are basically the same character (Samus/Zero Suit Samus, Ridley/Meta Ridley, Black Knight/Zelgius, ect.). Since they are the same character, they would know obviously know their own moves, even if it's in another form. However, judgment is needed to check if this is suitable (Ridley cannot just launch missiles like Meta Ridley, he needs the armor and technology on to do that. It would also be strange for Zelda to go ninja on people). The Black Knight (mysterous general of Daein) and Zelguis (war hero and general of Begnion) are two different forms, but are the same people (revealed in storyline). Black Knight knows how to fight like Zelguis as Zegius knows how to fight like the Black Knight. There could also be Samus and Zero Suit Samus. If Zero Suit Samus can preform kicks and punches in her games (let's pretend that), then Samus (in her power suit) could preform the kicks and punches.
Clone or same abilites- If the two character could preform the same abilites overall (some abilites are unique) or just a clone of the SSB character, then the SSB character could use the unique ability of the other character. This is because the two characters know so many moves that are identical to each other, it can be assumed that the unique move (unless said otherwise) the character knows, the SSB character knows it too. This can be said about Kirby and possible ability enemies (this did not happen yet in SSB though). Since (Fighter) Kirby and a (Fighter) ability enemy have almost all moves identical to each other even though the enemy can preform a move (Fighter) Kirby can't, then SSB Kirby can learn the move known by the enemy.
Same fighting teacher- If two characters had the same fighting teacher, then the characters could use the same moves as each other, despite how different their moves are. This is because they learned from the same teacher with the same lessons and learned the same fighting style. It may be possible that the SSB character may have learned the other character's move from his teacher. As mentioned above, this was the case with Greil (teacher) teaching both Ike and the Black Knight. It could be considered a speculation since you are speculating that Ike knows the Black Knight's moves.
Low Support Family/descendant inheritance- If the character is the father/mother/ancestor of the SSB character, then the SSB character may have learned it by being taught by the character or he inherited the skills. Let's pretend Roy isn't a clone of Marth and was decloned by SSBB. One of the things that Brawl may have done is borrow some of Eliwood's (Roy's father) for Roy's decloned moveset. Eliwood may have taught Roy how to fight, so it's possible that Roy may have known some of his father's moves.
Same fighting style/type- If the way they fight are the same style, then they may have the ability to preform somewhat the same moves. The way they fight is so similar, their moves may be identical. Of course, you will have to use judgment to determine that (hopefully it's a good one). Ness and Paula are PK move casters and the way they preform it is similar. It may be possible that Ness could have learned it on his own (though this wasn't the case in SSB. Check Ness's PK Starstorm trophy description).
Friendship/bond- This is the weakest support of all. This assumes that if the SSB character and the other character are friends, the other character teaches the SSB character the move without the storyline saying so. This was the case with Ness and Paula where it was revealed that Paula taught Ness PK Starstorm (and possibly PK Fire and PK Thunder). This may be because they were friends and allies, so they taught each other moves.
One thing to note it is recommended that you should never have the SSB character take a signature move from another character, even if it was a confirmation. It would be too weird and it would not reflect the character at all, since it is a well known move and a unique move. . . used by another character. It would also be unsuitable and it is best that you shouldn't mess with a famous move and give it to another character.
Minor Moves:
Spoiler:
Taunts
In SSB, the original purpose of taunts was to preform moves that would provoke, annoy, or mock opponents, sometimes celebrating a good move or combo (quote from Smash Wikia). However, that doesn't mean that all taunts that are made are suppose to annoy opponents. Mario's growing and shrinking taunt, Zelda's taunts, Snake's taunt, and Young Link's doesn't exactly yell, "HA HA! YOU LOST!". So there are a lot of things that could be a taunt. So those who are trying to figure out which taunt could say "I'll show you my power" could stop and expand their taunt choices. Who knows, maybe your taunt choice can grow on people and become provoking, annoying, and mocking, even if it wasn't designed to. Usually, taunts can be used to represent his/her personality, memorable motions, phrases and poses, frequently played animations, abilities, victory motions, along with the mocking and insulting actions from the games. It usually should not just have a random thing stick in and actually represent the character's side and memorable actions when he's not fighting. There's usually something memorable about the character outside of battle.
Victory motions- These usually are found when a player defeats a boss, cleared a level, accomplished something, or sometimes in the story line. For example, every time Link defeats a boss or learns a sword move, he does his sword sheath, which resembles his taunt, Ice Climber's level clear taunt, Kirby's dancing taunt when he defeats a boss and so on so fourth. It should be noted that often due to the speed and importance, the victory animation could be more suitable as a win. Example: Link's sword sheath, Mario's hat taunt, Ice Climber's jumping, Kirby's victory dance, Ike's sword slam taunt, ect.
Frequently played motions- If the animation have been played many times in the game, then it is passed down as a frequently activated taunt. It could also be a reference to what often happens during gameplay like Mario's growing and shrinking (reference to the mushroom growing and shrinking damage) and Snake's cardboard box (an object used for disguise and completing several levels). Example: Mario's growing taunt, Donkey Kong's chest beating, Link standing on one foot, Ike's "Prepare yourself" taunt, Snake's cardboard box.
Memorable motion/poses- If there is a pose, an animation, or phrase that is memorable and reflects the character well, then it could be a taunt. It usually happens in cutscene and the storyline, but it also fairly happens in gameplay as well. A memorable taunt is one that is known and is really suitable for the character. If a character is speaking a well-known phrase, it is allowed to be mixed with a custom pose or motion. However, it will not hurt at all to mix it with with a motion or pose that has a game reference. Example: Kirby's victory dance, Bowser's roar, Ganondorf's laugh and sword taunt, Sonic's "You're to slow" taunt, Toon Link's Wind Waker taunt, ect.
Personality- If the character has a well-know personality, then a taunt could be made based off of the personality. Sometimes in Smash, it is mixed with motions with game references, but it is usually mixed with a made up one. Even if the motion, pose, or phrase have never been seen/heard in the game, it could still represent and reflect the character by having it based on personality. None of Peach's, Yoshi's, Wario's, King Dedede's, Wolf's, Falco's, or Pichu's have clear game refrences and is made up, but they reflect their personality well. Example: All of Peach's taunts, all of Yoshi's taunts, all of Wario's taunts, all of Jigglypuff's taunt, all of Pikachu's taunt, all of Luigi's taunts, ect.
Abilities- If a character have a well known ability like speed, flexibility, or strength, then they would show it off. For example, one of Shiek's move shows off flexibility, Sonic's "You're too slow" taunt shows off his speed, while one of Pikachu's, Captain Falcon's, Ike's, and more shows off their strength. If their ability is well known, then it could be a taunt. It should be noted that the motion is usually custom and made-up, designed to show off these abilities, so you don't have to be obsessed finding a game reference to mix it with. Example: All of Shiek's taunts, all of Lucario's taunts, Sonic's "You're too slow" taunt, ect.
Custom- Though these are quite common in smash where it doesn't have a game refrence at all (like Zero Suit Samus's, Zelda's, Dr. Mario's, ect.), do your best to avoid these and try one of the five tactics above.
Victory Animations A victory animation are those animations the character plays when they won the match. It's layout is similar to taunts and follow the same principals, but does have a few differences:
Difference between taunt and win animations: - Win animations in Smash follows a certain sequence: Animation loop. The animation should also be about 3-6 seconds long since that's the time where the victory music in Brawl ends. There are people who do just a loop animation and that's it. It is not as interesting, people will just look at it at first glance and ignore it. However, people's curiosity will attract them and look at the beginning from the end if there is an animation with a loop ending. Loop animations that are alone are only good for taunts, taunts have less restrictions.
The victory animation should be based on the same things as taunt: memoriable motion and poses, personality, victory motions, and all of that stuff. All but frequently played motions are good for the victory poses. Frequently played animations are more recommended to taunts because they can be frequently played. You could spam a taunt. However, the victory animation plays only once per match. . . if you win all the time. When choosing between two animations, one frequent and one that's not so frequent, choose the not so frequent animation for the victory animation. However, this rule is often regarded for the purpose of suitability, so use your own judgment when deciding.
For some characters, memoriable motions are the taunts while animations that plays after a victory plays as a victory animation. For others, it's the other way around. Try to see which way is suitable for the character.
You should also try to make the taunt and win different from each other.
Waiting Animations A waiting animation plays when the character is in an idle animation for a long period of time (can be done by doing nothing). A character has at least two of them and isn’t too long. It also has several purposes: one is to make idling more entertaining and two, it is sometimes used to create a mini-taunt. One of the purposes of the mini-taunt is to include motions that are too minor to be in the taunt or else something that wasn’t suitable as a taunt and avoid scrapping the idea. It could also represent a secondary stance that the character was in to express both stances (one default idle, one waiting animation). There are several ways a waiting animation can be made.
Waiting motion- Waiting animations could be waiting motions from the character’s original game where they perform a motion when they’re not doing anything (works exactly like Brawl’s). For example, Link twirling his sword in Brawl’s waiting animation was his Twilight Princess’s waiting animation. Samus had her arm cannon down and interacting with it when she’s not doing anything in both Brawl and Metroid Prime.
Secondary Idle- A secondary idle is where a character goes into a different stance, usually based on another stance they had in their game. For example, Ike's Brawl idle is his Path of Radiance stance, however in his map overworld stance in Radiant Dawn, he heaves his sword over his shoulder. He does the same thing in Brawl by heaving his sword over his shoulder in his waiting animation like in Radiant Dawn. However, it should be noted that it is also possible to make his secondary idle a taunt, under "pose taunt".
Example: Ike's sword heave
Short motion- In a short motion waiting animation, a short motion is preformed. The motion must not be too long, but not too short ether. The right length would be the current waiting animations of Brawl. This is usually used to create a "short taunt" when it is not possible to make the short motion a taunt. For example, one of Kirby's waiting animation is based on his sleep ability where he sleeps for a small period of time.
Example (with origin): Kirby's sleeping
Personality- Waiting animations are custom motions that reflects the character's personality. For example, Marth puts his fists on his chest and takes a deep breath. This is reference to the fact that Marth is a humble prince and is often put into battles he doesn't want to fight in. Also, Bowser's, Ganondorf's , and Wolf's waiting animations all shows off their aggressiveness.
Example: Marth's hand heart, Wolf's, Ganondorf's, Bowser's, ect.
Custom- This is where characters' taunts have no game reference at all and is custom. Even though almost all of the characters have one or two custom waiting animations in the Smash series, it is recommended that you avoid this and at least try the four tactics above before using this as a last resort.
I will be adding more later lessons later on
Last edited by ShadowHunter on Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Sven the Turtle Level 2 CPU
33
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:54 pm
I remember you were super-famous for this across all the forums I knew you on. The best part is that it's really well made so you don't even have to change it at all to spread your knowledge to the masses
ShadowHunter Level 1 CPU
18
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:11 pm
[More space just in case I need it]
ShadowHunter Level 1 CPU
18
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:11 pm
[More space just in case I need it]
ShadowHunter Level 1 CPU
18
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:13 pm
Sven the Turtle wrote:
I remember you were super-famous for this across all the forums I knew you on. The best part is that it's really well made so you don't even have to change it at all to spread your knowledge to the masses
Hey thanks! Yeah I really enjoyed seeing people improving their moveset skills.
I am hoping this would help moveset development amoung the SSB Crusade community, would be pretty cool if this influenced the moveset creators making the characters in Crusade.
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:36 pm
I can't take credit for many of the movesets currently in Crusade, though I can take credit for almost every moveset from here on out, as I've made them already and they've been confirmed amongst the team. Obviously I can't go into details about unconfirmed characters, just putting it out there for the sake of my credibility.
I think you have good methods here, though i'm really not fond of "borrowing" unless nothing else is possible, which is almost never the case. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part a character's in-game stuff can cover every single input of their moveset. At least that's what I've found.
I also give you some credit for being able to make a good moveset standard using SSB as a source, which historically has awful movesets. Sure, there are examples of some good stuff they've done but let's be real, on the whole the series has terrible movesets. For example, sure Ness and Lucas' specials actually do have plausible references, but are they core techniques to those characters and their gameplay? No, and could not be further from it. Then there's ZSS' paralyzer - you give giant stun blasts (dsmash) and a laser whip based off of a single concept image of a game that's not even out yet which only showed a picture of the gun and gave no implications whatsoever as to what the gun would be capable of. And then that gun ended up not being a stun laser whip in said game when it was released. Literally the dumbest moveset in the game.
Ok, Toon Link plays faster than Link. Cool, that might be because of the reason you gave and if so, props to them on that choice. However, Toon Link is a clone of Link in many ways when there was so much more they could have done. Where's the Skull Hammer? Pegasus Boots? I could give you a very long list of things TL should have done but doesn't.
So point being I like your methods but i can't agree with you that SSB doesn't have terrible movesets.
Small disclaimer, I know very little of the Mother series and am going by what some friends who played the games have said. If I'm wrong on those, point still stands and I could give you plenty more examples that I am familiar with.
ShadowHunter Level 1 CPU
18
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:59 pm
Trust me, I agree with you that there are many movesets that aren't so great in SSB. Obvious ones are clones (we remade Toon Link's Expansion moveset here http://web.archive.org/web/20121206141446/http://ssf2expansions.motionforum.net/t348-toon-link-legend-of-zelda )
I am pretty much against clones and my future lessons gives ways on how to avoid making characters like Dr. Mario, Falco, Pichu, Roy, Lucus, etc (fixed his moveset for another expansion), and people like that. I also do not like the whip from Zero Suit Samus. And there are some moves which I think are useless in the game (I am a strong supporter of Project M)
But the main point is that yes, I know, SSB's moveset is not perfect and I actually encourage people to recoginze the bad parts of SSB and avoid them like plague. However what this tutorial does is that it analyzes the well-developed characters (like Link, Marth, Ike, Kirby, Fox, etc) and explains the methods that made them really great. Notice that I do not list Toon Link as an example in my tutorials, but I do mention the great characters like Marth and Fox. It also stresses out that you should both consider gameplay and the move origins when making a moveset. It stresses out that you should not ignore any of them and make sure that both are good.
And I want to teach you guys on how to replicate those great movesets in your characters. Don't pull off a Toon Link or Lucus, pull of something great and use the strong methods from SSB and only the strong methods to come up with your movesets. This tutorial will teach you the methods and you will use your judgement on how you want to use those methods and how it can be used the right way.
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:12 pm
So basically we're in agreement. Though i only mentioned ZSS and Toon Link because you actually did in the lessons, lol.
Well, if you want to get an idea of what the quality of our future movesets look like, check out this moveset I made (not confirming or de-confirming whether this character is on our roster, I made this moveset back when the roster was public);
Warrior of Light (Dissidia/FF1)
Spoiler:
Appearance:
Weapon:
Playstyle: Warrior of Light is a Paragon character, like Mario. He will have many options available to him in battle fitting for any situation that comes his way. Unlike Mario however, his attacks will all be extremely rewarding on hit with built-in combos and links, but they will have high end lag on miss. His moveset will be heavily based off of the Dissidia WoL (because this is the protagonist character for the series), with influence from the FF1 Warrior and Knight abilities.
Gimmick: Bravery. When Warrior of Light deals damage with a brave attack (most of his moveset), a bravery counter will increase very much like it is seen in Dissidia. When he is dealt damage in return, his bravery will decrease. The higher his bravery, the more damage and knockback he will deal with select attacks (labeled in the moveset as HP attacks). Landing an HP attack resets his Bravery to it's base number, but his Bravery is unaffected by a miss. HP attacks should be much weaker than most smashes/specials when at base Bravery, but more powerful at high bravery. Multi-hit HP attacks increase bravery with each hit before the last, which then uses the bravery total as any other HP attack would
Bravery points will be worth 100X a percent point of damage. Base bravery is 2,500 (25%), and with each attack he lands or receives, his bravery increases or decreases respectively by the percent damage x100. For example, WoL lands a smash attack on his opponent, knocking them away and resetting his Brave counter to 2,500. He then lands a combo on the opponent worth 28% damage, and his brave gains 2,800 points, totaling at 5,300. Bravery caps at 9,999. His opponent then hits him with a few projectiles and attacks, deals out 35%. 3,500 has been lost, and the counter is now at 1,800. At this point, his HP attacks are quite weak. The changes in number happen in real time the moment any attack connects, and will be displayed by his stock/damage display area.
Optional float or alternative Up special: Summon Chocobo. While mounted, pressing A will perform Chocobo Kick and pressing B will perform Chocobo Meteor.
Jab/combo: Dayflash. Quick three hit sword combo. Brave attack.
Forward Tilt: Sword Thrust. Throw shield forward, on hit follow up with a sword combo. Brave attack.
Up Tilt: Ascension. Throws shield forward and up, on hit follows up with a sword combo that ends in a launcher. Brave attack. Pressing B afterward will initiate Rune Sabre (see bottom of moveset).
Down Tilt: Blue Fang. Warrior of Light summons a few shards of ice to fall from above the opponent. Alternatively, they fall right in front of him (not canon). Brave attack.
Dash Attack: Attack Command. Warrior of Light performs the classic "Attack" command. Brave attack.
Neutral Air: Crossover. Hovers while spinning his shield around him, on hit follows up with an upwards stab. Brave attack. Pressing B afterward will initiate Rune Sabre (see bottom of moveset).
Forward Air: White Fang. Warrior of Light sends forward several columns of lightning. Brave attack.
Back Air: Red Fang. Warrior of Light throws a fire projectile with slight homing capabilities. Brave attack.
Up Air: Rising Buckler. Throws shield upward to hit multiple times. On hit, follows up with a downward slash. Brave attack. Pressing B afterward will initiate Bitter End (see bottom of moveset).
Down Air: Shield Strike. Throws shield downward to hit multiple times. On hit, follows up with an upward slash. Brave attack. Pressing B afterward will initiate Bitter End (see bottom of moveset).
Forward Smash: Shining Wave. Warrior of Light stabs his sword into the ground and flings upward to unleash pillars of light energy moving forward. Very high vertical reach. HP attack.
Up Smash: Ultimate Shield. Warrior of Light throws his shield upward (can be angled left or right). On hit, he telepathically manipulates the shield to fly through the opponent rapidly from multiple angles, ending with a huge hit from the original angle along with purple energy. HP attack.
Note: Ultimate Shield is at 0:45
Down Smash: Guard/Defend. Warrior of Light takes a defensive stance, gains super armor, and does a shield bash forward. If hit during the defensive stance portion, the opponent will be staggered, leading into the shield bash. HP attack.
Forward Throw: Saber. Warrior of Light's gauntlets glow red and he is granted an attack power buff, which he uses in a powerful slash forward.
Note: The reason his gauntlets glow is because Saber is not a spell available to the Knight class, though the Giant's Gloves could allow one to use it. Therefore, the gloves will glow signifying the source of the spell. The image shows what the spell itself looks like, increasing attack power. We are adding a slash to that. All in all, WoL should raise his sword above his head, the image's effect should surround it while his gloves glow, and he slashes.
Back Throw: Ruse. Warrior of Light throws (or slashes) the opponent back, and a phantom image appears interrupting their trajectory with another slash back towards WoL. Can be combo'd off of easily or even chain grabbed, but the latter is escapable through DI.
Up Throw: Throws the opponent up, meets them in the air and uses aerial Dayflash
Note: Dayflash is at 0:29
Down Throw: Mute. Warrior of Light summons a magic seal over the enemy which explodes, dealing damage and inflicting the Mute status. The opponent temporarily cannot use projectile attacks.
Neutral Special: Radiant Sword. Warrior of Light summons several glowing light swords, which fly towards the opponent. The swords speed up as they travel. HP attack.
Side Special: Shield of Light. Warrior of Light takes a defensive stance as a shield of light appears in front of him. If the opponent attacks it, they will be stunned momentarily. After the brief guard, WoL will release a burst of energy through the light shield. Can be angled up or down. HP attack.
Up Special: Invisible. Warrior of Light disappears in a ball of light and reappears a long distance away. Start-up:
Vanishing/Appearing:
Down Special: Cure. Warrior of Light begins to use Cure, which builds up Bravery points as long as the special button is held.
Note: Have this kind of effect swirl around WoL for as long as the special button is held.
Final Smash: Oversoul. Warrior of Light slashes through an opponent (alternatively, across the whole stage) several times in every direction, then detonates the light energy left in his wake in a gigantic explosion of light. Knockback and damage increase with bravery, and the first part of this attack significantly increases his bravery.
Other
Rune Sabre: Follows up with a field of light energy to damage and trap in the enemy, then stabs upwards with light energy. HP attack.
Note: The first portion is Ascension (up tilt). Rune Sabre is the part where it actually says "Rune Sabre" on screen and uses the crystals to attack. This is used to extend either Ascension or Crossover (Nair).
Bitter End: Follows up with a series of sword slashes, ending in a powerful horizontal slash. HP attack.
Note: The first portion is Rising Buckler (Up air). Bitter End starts when the game displays the words "Bitter End". This is used to extend either Rising Buckler or Shield Strike (Dair).
MercuryHg34
3883
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:08 am
A while ago I also came up with some movesets for characters that were potentially going to be added as DLC, I worked on this one collaboratively with my brother.
Zero (Complete) (Credit shared between AzureLight12 and myself)
Spoiler:
Zero is a Maverick Hunter, and Megaman X's best friend. You all know who he is; most of you probably voted for him on the DLC thread, and his inclusion is guaranteed at this pace (assuming DLC actually happens). Zero is an accomplished swordsman, making use of various close-quarters techniques while also boasting large, disjointed moves for excellent spacing. What he lacks in kill power and combos he makes up for in spacing and recovery.
Zero also has a unique characteristic: his air dash, known as Hienkyaku (Flying Swallow Feet), is done by pressing forward twice while in midair. This move halts his momentum and causes him to travel quickly in a horizontal path ahead. During the dash, he is also able to perform a unique attack detailed later on. He then goes into helpless afterward. Zero is also very heavy since he is a robot, and can be combo'd easily.
Normals: Jab Combo: Zero does his signature three-hit combo slash. Ftilt: Youdantotsu (Leaf Severing Thrust) Zero steps forward and thrusts his sword straight. Dtilt: Ganzanha (Rock Slashing Wave) Zero punches the ground, causing a small purple energy burst to shoot up from the ground in front of him. Very fast and weak. Utilt: Shoenzan (Rising Flame Peak) Zero's sword become orange, and he performs a standing uppercut slash. A large flame rises with the sword in front of him, traveling as far up as double Zero's height. Fsmash: Raijingeki (Raijin Attack) Zero stabs forward with his sword, which extends straight out and turns into blue electricity. Dsmash: Bakuenjin (Bursting Flame Array) Zero punches the ground, creating a fiery explosion around him. Usmash: Juuhazan (Heavy Wave Slash) Zero winds up a large overhead slash. It is very slow, but strong and capable of easily breaking a foe's shield. Dash Attack: Shippuuga (Hurricane Fang) Zero dashes forward and performs a slash with a pink sword. This move hits up to three times. Ledge Attack: Hadangeki (Wave Severing Attack) Zero hops off of the ledge with a front flip, landing with an overhead slash that sends out an energy wave a short distance. Get Up Attack: Senpuukyaku (Whirlwind Leg) Zero gets up and performs a dark-element "Tatsumaki" kick.
Aerials: Nair: Mikazukizan (Crescent Moon Slash) Zero performs a front flip slash that surrounds himself in an orange crescent aura. Fair: Sentsuzian (Spinning Crasher Slash) Zero flies diagonally downward, performing a horizontal slash as he descends. Bair: Souenbu (Twin Swallow Dance) Zero quickly pulls out two purple energy daggers and slashes behind him, sending out a weak energy boomerang that travels very quickly, but not very far at all. Dair: Hyouretsuzan (Ice Fury Slash) Zero stop in midair, turns his sword into a large icicle, and plunges downward with it. As he falls he can slightly adjust his trajectory left or right. Uair: Hyouryuushou (Ice Dragon Rising) Zero spins once with his sword overhead, turning it into ice. Briefly freezes the foe when they are at high damage. Aerial Dash Attack: Hisuishou (Flying Splasher) During his aerial dash, attacking causes Zero to encase himself in ice and charge forward. This attack can be angled up or down slightly, and he goes into helpless afterward.
Grabs Pummel: Zero punches the foe repeatedly. Nothing special, unfortunately. Fthrow: Enkoukyaku (Flame Descending Leg) Zero tosses the foe forward, then leaps into the air and descends onto the foe with a flaming kick attack. Bthrow: Raijinken (Thunder Swift Fist) Zero throws the foe behind him, then chases them with a dashing electric uppercut punch. Upon contact a powerful lightning bolt strikes the foe from above and sends them flying. Dthrow: Danchien (Quake Blazer) Zero throws the foe on the ground, then leaps onto them with a flaming stab into their chest, which is followed by a series of small explosions. Uthrow: Denjin (Electric Blade) Zero performs a rising uppercut slash similar to his Up B, but it is instead made of electricity. Hits multiple times, and at the end a lightning bolt carries them downward into the ground, popping them high into the air upon landing.
Specials Neutral B: Z-Buster/Heijin (Flying Shadow Blade) Zero has two neutral B moves: one on the ground and one in the air. On the ground, Zero uses his signature Z-Buster. This attack must be charged to use, leaving Zero immobile. It is very powerful, however. In midair, Zero uses "Heijin", an attack where he makes a small slash that sends out a homing energy projectile. This move is fairly weak, but useful for racking up damage from mid-range or creating an opening to attack.
Side B: Sougenmu (Twin Dream) Zero creates a clone of himself 2 character lengths away. The clone remains at this fixed distance and mimics Zero's every move. The clone can't be hurt, but it copies all of Zero's normals and aerials. After a short period of time it disappears, or it disappears if another special is used. Has high cooldown.
Down B: Rakuhouha (Falling Phoenix Crusher) Zero punches the ground, sending out small energy projectiles in all directions. These projectiles are fairly weak but have high priority. If used in the air, Zero plunges to the ground with his fist and then the explosion happens.
Up B: Ryuenjin (Dragon Flame Blade) Zero performs a flaming uppercut slash, rising upward into the air and pausing in midair near the end of the move. Hits multiple times and finishes with a stronger hit at the end.
Final Smash: Dark Hold Zero turns his back to the foe, and then uses "Dark Hold". The entire screen becomes photo-negative (except Zero), and time stops for everyone in the game. Every other player begins rapidly accumulating damage at a rate of 2-3% per second for the duration of the move. Zero is unaffected, and is able to attack the other players freely as well. They remain frozen in place even if they are hit. When the move ends, everyone resumes moving as they were before the attack started.
Almost every input (not just moves) of Zero's is from an ability or move he had in all of his MMX appearances, you'll find similar representation across both my movesets and Perfecthell4's movesets.
C_Mill24 Level 9 CPU
2072 C-Mill24
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:39 am
SHADOW HUNTER!? Haven't seen you in a while!
ShadowHunter Level 1 CPU
18
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:49 pm
For Warrior of Light, that's a pretty good moveset though I see that the moveset has heavy reliance on Dissidia. I would recommend trying to add more reference from the original game to the specials so that there could be more nolstalgia for those who have played the original games but not Dissidia. Not to mention I am doing my best to avoid Dissidia for my Cecil moveset.
And the Zero moveset is good (though I don't know too much about Megaman to give more accurate critique)
But the purpose of these tutorials are to help those with characters who doesn't have a myraid of moves from multiple games where one can easily form many combination of movesets. The purpose of this is to help those suffering from moveset limitations or other conditions where forming a good moveset doesn't come as easily.
And awesome to see again C_Mill24 and Sven the Turtle!
Also I have a new update! (Sorry for the bump, but I was a bit busy so I couldn't post here as often :/ )
Minor Moves:
Spoiler:
Taunts
In SSB, the original purpose of taunts was to preform moves that would provoke, annoy, or mock opponents, sometimes celebrating a good move or combo (quote from Smash Wikia). However, that doesn't mean that all taunts that are made are suppose to annoy opponents. Mario's growing and shrinking taunt, Zelda's taunts, Snake's taunt, and Young Link's doesn't exactly yell, "HA HA! YOU LOST!". So there are a lot of things that could be a taunt. So those who are trying to figure out which taunt could say "I'll show you my power" could stop and expand their taunt choices. Who knows, maybe your taunt choice can grow on people and become provoking, annoying, and mocking, even if it wasn't designed to. Usually, taunts can be used to represent his/her personality, memorable motions, phrases and poses, frequently played animations, abilities, victory motions, along with the mocking and insulting actions from the games. It usually should not just have a random thing stick in and actually represent the character's side and memorable actions when he's not fighting. There's usually something memorable about the character outside of battle.
Victory motions- These usually are found when a player defeats a boss, cleared a level, accomplished something, or sometimes in the story line. For example, every time Link defeats a boss or learns a sword move, he does his sword sheath, which resembles his taunt, Ice Climber's level clear taunt, Kirby's dancing taunt when he defeats a boss and so on so fourth. It should be noted that often due to the speed and importance, the victory animation could be more suitable as a win. Example: Link's sword sheath, Mario's hat taunt, Ice Climber's jumping, Kirby's victory dance, Ike's sword slam taunt, ect.
Frequently played motions- If the animation have been played many times in the game, then it is passed down as a frequently activated taunt. It could also be a reference to what often happens during gameplay like Mario's growing and shrinking (reference to the mushroom growing and shrinking damage) and Snake's cardboard box (an object used for disguise and completing several levels). Example: Mario's growing taunt, Donkey Kong's chest beating, Link standing on one foot, Ike's "Prepare yourself" taunt, Snake's cardboard box.
Memorable motion/poses- If there is a pose, an animation, or phrase that is memorable and reflects the character well, then it could be a taunt. It usually happens in cutscene and the storyline, but it also fairly happens in gameplay as well. A memorable taunt is one that is known and is really suitable for the character. If a character is speaking a well-known phrase, it is allowed to be mixed with a custom pose or motion. However, it will not hurt at all to mix it with with a motion or pose that has a game reference. Example: Kirby's victory dance, Bowser's roar, Ganondorf's laugh and sword taunt, Sonic's "You're to slow" taunt, Toon Link's Wind Waker taunt, ect.
Personality- If the character has a well-know personality, then a taunt could be made based off of the personality. Sometimes in Smash, it is mixed with motions with game references, but it is usually mixed with a made up one. Even if the motion, pose, or phrase have never been seen/heard in the game, it could still represent and reflect the character by having it based on personality. None of Peach's, Yoshi's, Wario's, King Dedede's, Wolf's, Falco's, or Pichu's have clear game refrences and is made up, but they reflect their personality well. Example: All of Peach's taunts, all of Yoshi's taunts, all of Wario's taunts, all of Jigglypuff's taunt, all of Pikachu's taunt, all of Luigi's taunts, ect.
Abilities- If a character have a well known ability like speed, flexibility, or strength, then they would show it off. For example, one of Shiek's move shows off flexibility, Sonic's "You're too slow" taunt shows off his speed, while one of Pikachu's, Captain Falcon's, Ike's, and more shows off their strength. If their ability is well known, then it could be a taunt. It should be noted that the motion is usually custom and made-up, designed to show off these abilities, so you don't have to be obsessed finding a game reference to mix it with. Example: All of Shiek's taunts, all of Lucario's taunts, Sonic's "You're too slow" taunt, ect.
Custom- Though these are quite common in smash where it doesn't have a game refrence at all (like Zero Suit Samus's, Zelda's, Dr. Mario's, ect.), do your best to avoid these and try one of the five tactics above.
Victory Animations A victory animation are those animations the character plays when they won the match. It's layout is similar to taunts and follow the same principals, but does have a few differences:
Difference between taunt and win animations: - Win animations in Smash follows a certain sequence: Animation loop. The animation should also be about 3-6 seconds long since that's the time where the victory music in Brawl ends. There are people who do just a loop animation and that's it. It is not as interesting, people will just look at it at first glance and ignore it. However, people's curiosity will attract them and look at the beginning from the end if there is an animation with a loop ending. Loop animations that are alone are only good for taunts, taunts have less restrictions.
The victory animation should be based on the same things as taunt: memoriable motion and poses, personality, victory motions, and all of that stuff. All but frequently played motions are good for the victory poses. Frequently played animations are more recommended to taunts because they can be frequently played. You could spam a taunt. However, the victory animation plays only once per match. . . if you win all the time. When choosing between two animations, one frequent and one that's not so frequent, choose the not so frequent animation for the victory animation. However, this rule is often regarded for the purpose of suitability, so use your own judgment when deciding.
For some characters, memoriable motions are the taunts while animations that plays after a victory plays as a victory animation. For others, it's the other way around. Try to see which way is suitable for the character.
You should also try to make the taunt and win different from each other.
Waiting Animations A waiting animation plays when the character is in an idle animation for a long period of time (can be done by doing nothing). A character has at least two of them and isn’t too long. It also has several purposes: one is to make idling more entertaining and two, it is sometimes used to create a mini-taunt. One of the purposes of the mini-taunt is to include motions that are too minor to be in the taunt or else something that wasn’t suitable as a taunt and avoid scrapping the idea. It could also represent a secondary stance that the character was in to express both stances (one default idle, one waiting animation). There are several ways a waiting animation can be made.
Waiting motion- Waiting animations could be waiting motions from the character’s original game where they perform a motion when they’re not doing anything (works exactly like Brawl’s). For example, Link twirling his sword in Brawl’s waiting animation was his Twilight Princess’s waiting animation. Samus had her arm cannon down and interacting with it when she’s not doing anything in both Brawl and Metroid Prime.
Secondary Idle- A secondary idle is where a character goes into a different stance, usually based on another stance they had in their game. For example, Ike's Brawl idle is his Path of Radiance stance, however in his map overworld stance in Radiant Dawn, he heaves his sword over his shoulder. He does the same thing in Brawl by heaving his sword over his shoulder in his waiting animation like in Radiant Dawn. However, it should be noted that it is also possible to make his secondary idle a taunt, under "pose taunt".
Example: Ike's sword heave
Short motion- In a short motion waiting animation, a short motion is preformed. The motion must not be too long, but not too short ether. The right length would be the current waiting animations of Brawl. This is usually used to create a "short taunt" when it is not possible to make the short motion a taunt. For example, one of Kirby's waiting animation is based on his sleep ability where he sleeps for a small period of time.
Example (with origin): Kirby's sleeping
Personality- Waiting animations are custom motions that reflects the character's personality. For example, Marth puts his fists on his chest and takes a deep breath. This is reference to the fact that Marth is a humble prince and is often put into battles he doesn't want to fight in. Also, Bowser's, Ganondorf's , and Wolf's waiting animations all shows off their aggressiveness.
Example: Marth's hand heart, Wolf's, Ganondorf's, Bowser's, ect.
Custom- This is where characters' taunts have no game reference at all and is custom. Even though almost all of the characters have one or two custom waiting animations in the Smash series, it is recommended that you avoid this and at least try the four tactics above before using this as a last resort.
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:54 pm
Except that i used every single move that ever was available to the original WoL in my moveset...possibly left out one or two that wouldn't make sense in smash but even then im pretty sure i found ways, such as clever use of Ruse and the Guard command. Yes there's more Dissidia, but that's solely because he had more attacks in Dissidia. IIRC not a single move from either game was left out.
ShadowHunter Level 1 CPU
18
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:17 pm
And that is where moveset innovation comes into play.
For example, Marth is a character where in the games, where he basically only had one attack with his sword. However, the Smash series came up with creative ideas to bypass that, such as using the Attack Description element to make an entire moveset of four specials and a final smash that are completely canon.
You say that you used every single move that was avaliable, but the question is did you really? You mainly used the moves that were on the surface and obvious to find by limiting yourself to what you see on his list of attacks. But you are not digging beyond the surface of what you see. That is what many people tends to run into this barrier, and limit themselves to a limited set of moveset options. But the good moveset creators break this barrier and think outside of the box, scraping up every single resource to come up with something more innovative that is unique and maybe even awesome. Marth (along with many others) is a pretty good example of this kind of innovation.
The reason that good movesets are able to come up with things that not many think about because they innovate and think beyond on what everyone sees. Look at Marth and his Brawl History . The origins of his neutral special, side special, up special, and down special all came from something that was not in his set of attacks (he only had one) but came from ideas and moves that came from and followed the four moveset elements. It's pretty hard to say that just any Fire Emblem fan could come up with his moveset with deep origins like that. I could say the same thing for Fox, not many people would would come up with the idea of basing his attacks from his Arwing. They would be looking at what is obviously there to them and probably choose foot-soldier weapons for Fox, instead of digging deeper and come up with something more unique and innovative. For both of these characters, you had to strongly exercise the concepts of the four moveset elements.
So I say no, you did not use every single move. You used every single move that was on the Final Fantasy wiki that he can preform, but did you use innovation and the four moveset elements to come up with the hidden moves that's beyond the surface and the obvious? The moves you need to form the perfect moveset is there, but you just haven't innovated enough and dug up more information / knowledge to come up with these unique and amazing moves that not many would be able to come up with.
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:42 pm
Did you seriously just make wild assumptions about the research I put into that moveset? You've got to be kidding me.
- Most experienced moveset crafter on this forum other than possibly c_mill, going by what is posted here in this forum - Makes the majority of the movesets for Crusade going forward (not the ones currently in game, i wasnt around for most of those, you'll see my work in coming versions though) - Always put insane amounts of research into almost everything i say and do on forum, evident in every discussion and argument i've ever made on this forum - One of the biggest final fantasy fans on this forum
There's actually no need to innovate "hidden moves" when a character's possibilities actually do complete a moveset on their own. I find it surprising that you don't also question Zero's moveset, which is an identical case.
When i make a moveset, I scour the character's related wiki's, some gaming websites (such as gamefaqs to get full game movelists), gameplay videos, cutscene compilation videos to see everything the character has done outside gameplay, and even look up fan movesets on youtube and smashboards just to be 100% certain i didnt miss anything important or some cool creative opportunities.
Don't ever make the mistake of downplaying the time and effort I put into the things I do here. Especially not when it comes to doing research.
Now when it comes to innovating, as you can clearly see not only was there no room left with which to make up imaginary moves (and using things with real references always comes first) since his possible moves actually take up a full complete moveset, but i actually DID do some creative stuff. I made moves work out of things you would not normally consider for a moveset, such as the "Defend" command (a tactical command that is in no way meant to become an attack possibility), Ruse, Saber, and other things that you would think don't work in a fighting game setting. I even offered an interesting optional Chocobo gimmick, as a nod to the character's old presence on our roster. Again, stop making assumptions.
HypeConduit Level 6 CPU
873 XMister_RatburnX
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:34 pm
ShadowHunter, if you're so ridiculously anal about creativity in movesets, why in HELL would you use Marth as your example illustration? When I think of a moveset that really "digs deep", I think of Game & Watch. Or Zelda and Sheik! As long as a character has a sword, they're usually set for at least half their moveset (Based on what I know about smash).
Why would somebody EVER go out of their way to make obscure moves for the character? That would only make the players more confused, because most of the time, these silly, pretend moves are done completely inaccurately. The reason all of Snake's moves aren't absolutely on target with his games is because if they molded him around stealth, he would be undoubtedly shred to pieces by speed and even heavy characters. The last stain Smash needs is a handful full of gimmicky, hard to operate, high-risk low-reward oddballs with references only 2% of players will even recognize. The diversity and obscurity in movesets are what made PSASBR eat the dust for most SSB fans. (Besides sweaty, unmetered nintendoism)
Smash King Smash King
8744 EJ88201
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:40 pm
Damn, some of you guys are kinda taking it a bit too the heart, don't you think?
SP
3856 cellularSP
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:02 pm
Smash bros is srs bsns
HypeConduit Level 6 CPU
873 XMister_RatburnX
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:28 pm
I will say I'm taking it a bit personally, because I have a friend back home that has made like 6 Dante movesets for smash and allstars trying to represent all of his moves from 1-4, because he bitterly hates DMC:DMC. One of the movesets even required 3/4 gameplay mechanic changes, 1 or 2 being JUST for Dante. Oh, and he was OP.
So when people make characters solely based around their "homage" or "accuracy", they make their actual functionality and balance secondary.
More likely than not, though, I'm probably just snowballing on something I shouldn't, so... *Ahem*
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:58 pm
Perfect Hell wrote:
Did you seriously just make wild assumptions about the research I put into that moveset? You've got to be kidding me.
- Most experienced moveset crafter on this forum other than possibly c_mill, going by what is posted here in this forum - Makes the majority of the movesets for Crusade going forward (not the ones currently in game, i wasnt around for most of those, you'll see my work in coming versions though) - Always put insane amounts of research into almost everything i say and do on forum, evident in every discussion and argument i've ever made on this forum - One of the biggest final fantasy fans on this forum
An experienced list-maker. What a force to be reckoned with.
MercuryHg34
3883
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:47 am
>Claims PH4 didn't put enough research/creativity into his movesets >Uses Marth, an almost entirely Sakurai'd character that perfectly exemplifies Sakurai's lack of creativity in movesets, as an example to prove his point
Not seeing the logic here...
ShadowHunter Level 1 CPU
18
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:06 am
My apologies, what I said was meant to be a suggestion to help you spark up more ideas to expand the moveset. I am guessing its my lack of knowledge of Final Fantasy I that had me underestimate the amount of research and effort made into the moveset. But yeah, it's awesome to see how much effort you put into planning out the movesets then, most people don't really do that.
Maybe its preference in prorities but I always consider the original games, use innovative to scape up any ideas to represent the original games even further, and then turn to less-canon games (Dissidia, a Final Fantasy free for all game). As a result I probably would have put in the extra effort in innovation to replace the neutral special and side special with something innovative from the original games, but I suppose it's alright if you prefer Dissidia over innovation from original games. But at least you came up with the idea for Ruse, Saber, and the others which is good.
I generally try to avoid Dissidia. As a result I would ask you to think of something better for the Neutral Special and Side Special from the original games through the use of moveset innovation and excercise of the four moveset element. But if you wish to add moves from Dissidia, then you can leave the neutral and side speical alone then.
But yeah, my apologies if my last post offended you, it merely just served as a suggestion.
@MercuryHg34- Please understand that not all of Sakurai's movesets are horrible (for example Toon Link, Falco, Luigi, etc) but some of them were cleverly created. You cannot just dismiss Sakurai or Smash as terrible moveset creators just because of a few clones because there were others that were brilliantly created, like Mr. Game and Watch someone said.
@HypeConduit- Because Marth relates more to Warrior of Light in this situation rather than Mr. Game and Watch, which should be used to make NES characters or else those with an extremely limited attacks set. But I see your point, Mr. Game and Watch does have more creativity and I recogonized him to the point where he has a new moveset element on his own (I call it the Game and Watch method at least). And I will argue that Marth is one of the most well made characters in the Smash series, I don't think a lot of people would have came up with the awesome specials that he has now.
The reason I suggested innovated moveset was to find moves that would replace Dissidia moves (I always proritize moves from the original game over third party / less canon which was a Final Fantasy free for all). I kind of assumed that he did not have much ideas left to put from the original games so I was trying to encourage him to think harder and dig deeper to the original game to replace the Dissidia moves. That is how I would have handled things but if he puts Dissida at higher prority, then that's fine.
Last edited by ShadowHunter on Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:19 am; edited 2 times in total
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:11 am
It wouldn't be hard to put say Ruse on a special, and maybe something else, but i much prefer the Dissidia attacks. And anyway all you're talking about then is swapping moves around, the FF1 moves already exist in the moveset you're just talking about swapping the specials with the throws or other attacks.
EDIT
Looking it over again, I see I actually WAS fair to FF1. You say i overused Dissidia especially in specials, and yet the two games were given equal treatment, 2 specials used from each game. How deeply did you really look into this moveset before you tried to criticize it?
ShadowHunter Level 1 CPU
18
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:23 am
I never said you were overusing Dissidia, I was basically saying you should try to avoid using Dissida moves as much as possible for something like the speicals and favor it for moves from the original games, which you can use by pondering more about the original games. The reason I gave you the suggestion to innovate was because I thought you couldn't come up with the moves to replace them, but now it seems that you are perfectly fine with the Dissida moves in the specials.
And I was not criticizing the moveset. I was suggesting that you should innovate a bit more to find a way to replace the specials with that from the original game (which would be my method in doing things). I will admit though, the Bravery stats seem to have a lot of thought gone into it.
Perfect Hell
8837
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:32 am
Well back when this was first made, it was decided that WoL would equally represent both games. He is the protagonist of Dissidia and therefore FF as a whole, which is a very important role for him. At most, I would replace only one of the Dissidia specials if it were decided that FF1 were more important, but as for the current moveset the equality between games in the specials was crafted on purpose, not out of laziness. I easily could have made 4 specials from either game if i chose to.
ShadowHunter Level 1 CPU
18
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:40 am
Ah, that is perfectly understandable. I am guessing that the main reason for all of this argument was miscommunication in game prorities. But yeah, if that's the goal then you did pretty well on it.
Dry
4607
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:45 pm
I have nothing to say on moveset making, but Marth is an interesting case. All four of his moves are canon, and not just canon to the random crap Awakening DLC piled onto previous characters; canon to the Marth of the time from FE1 and FE3. The move names were obviously made up, but Sakurai used FE animations and only FE animations for them. As far as creativity goes, I think it's the best he could have done, while also making sure Marth remains Marth.
ShadowHunter Level 1 CPU
18
Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets) Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:20 pm
Yes, that is one of the beauty of Smash movesets. Through all the clones and "Sakurai'ed" moves that people make fun of, there are just as many amazing movesets that were well-planned out and are thriving with originality and creativity that stays true to the character. Not everyone really appriciates that, let alone recoginize that and in a way, I wanted to change that.
And that's why I created this topic. After learning the deep origins of each of the Smash character's movesets and recoginzing Smash's moveset making style, I wanted to share that with all of you so that you can bring the amazing and creative traits that helped create Marth, Mr. Game and Watch, Fox, Kirby, Link, Ice Climbers, and practically everyone else. I made this to revolutionize the way people created movesets and minimize the amount of "writer's / thinker's block" for moveset creators and give them a set of techniques they can do to get themselves out of those kind of situations.
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Subject: Re: SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets)
SSB Moveset Theory I Course (tutorial on making movesets)