Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument BklTYr4

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 Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument

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Super Smash Bros Crusade
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PostSubject: Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument   Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument EmptyMon Oct 31, 2011 5:43 am

So on Brawl in the Forums, people often make or bump threads stating that tiers are wrong, or some character is way better than people think, or Meta Knight can't possibly be broken because you can totally counter him with such and such move and all his specials make him helpless. Due to this, we get a lot of discussion between the competitive players on the forum (myself included) and the casual players.
On the most recent thread, a member was claiming that tiers didn't exist because his Kirby was really good against his friends. I'd imagine all the competitive players just groaned and then decided to enlighten him.
The most recent post is actually a great reason for casual and competitive people to just shut up and stop arguing about which way to play is better. And here it is:

-Ran wrote:

Aero wrote:
So you guys are saying that using a higher ranked character has a better chance of winning...?
Yes.

Tiers typically are indicative of how well a character can perform when the proper options are utilized in the hands of a tournament level player. The higher a character is on the list, generally the greater their ability to:

  • Maintain their zones.
  • React to stimuli with fewer frame notice. [Ie, Falco's two frame Jab.]
  • Fewer blind spots. [Such as Mario's forward aerial approaching being worthless due to its speed and power.]
  • Punish openings.
  • Have numerous options in situations where a first option read won't be enough.
  • Return a battle to a neutral position. [Recovery, frame safe approaches/defenses, etc.]
  • Harass an opponent with a smaller window of opportunity to be punished
  • Interact with stages in a positive manner.


With that said, your experiences with Smash will be remarkably different than a competitive player due to:

  • Dramatically lower player skill due to a substantially lower incentive to win and improve. [We play for money, regional pride, and so forth.]
  • Very little player experience. You are constantly playing the same handful of people, perhaps having played a total of ten unique individuals. This leads to low adaptability, while a competitive player is constantly seeking out new opponents.
  • Ignorance to a Character's Metagame. [What makes them good/bad.]
  • Inability to space or zone.
  • Low, if any, understanding of the flow/effect of stage elements.
  • Larger skill gaps due to one or two individuals actually taking the time to learn their character 'somewhat' or they have relatable gaming experiences that they can apply.
  • The utilization of self imposed rules such as not edge guarding your friends, or banning grabbing, chain grabbing, grab releases, side stepping, no camping with projectiles, etc.
  • Most don't even play anywhere close to the competitive metagame due to playing Free For Alls, Teams with Team Damage Off, banned stages, or any other rules alteration.
  • Playing Wifi. [Added lag creates a tremendous alteration to the game.]
  • Playing on an HD TV. [The Wii sucks with upscaling, typically leading to 5-10 frames of visual lag. You're often hit before you can even react.]


With all that said, it's no wonder that it seems strange to you that a character can be such a dramatically altering force in a match between two evenly skilled opponents. We play two different games, which is fine. Smile

This is all fine and dandy, but now reread the last two sentences of the post. Now read them again. And I'll quote it here again because of how important those two sentences are.

-Ran wrote:
With all that said, it's no wonder that it seems strange to you that a character can be such a dramatically altering force in a match between two evenly skilled opponents. We play two different games, which is fine. Smile

So are you guys going to stop arguing now? >_>
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AEM

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PostSubject: Re: Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument   Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument EmptyMon Oct 31, 2011 8:52 am

Cool Story Bro
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PostSubject: Re: Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument   Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument EmptyMon Oct 31, 2011 11:28 am

So basically people sit on their ass all day coming up with laughable terminology and chastise all who want to have fun and oppose their competitive ideals.

The unequivocal best way to play is with Mountain Dew by the litre, enjoying yourself without the risk of controller breakage or arthritis from all of the prioritized short hop fast fall l-cancel wavedash jim-bob walton chain grab taunt (PSHFFLWJBWCGT©)

The verdict: Playing a party game competitively is a complete waste of time.
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PostSubject: Re: Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument   Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument EmptyMon Oct 31, 2011 12:45 pm

CorporalJetblack wrote:
So basically people sit on their ass all day coming up with laughable terminology and chastise all who want to have fun and oppose their competitive ideals.

The unequivocal best way to play is with Mountain Dew by the litre, enjoying yourself without the risk of controller breakage or arthritis from all of the prioritized short hop fast fall l-cancel wavedash jim-bob walton chain grab taunt (PSHFFLWJBWCGT©)

The verdict: Playing a party game competitively is a complete waste of time.

I wouldn't say it's a waste of time. People play how they want to play.
My only problem is when types of players chastise other players for not playing the way they do. Both Competitives and Casuals suffer from this superiority complex that pisses me off. Like how there's more than one way to eat a Resee's, there's more than one way to play Smash; why is there fighting to begin with?
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Excalibur
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PostSubject: Re: Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument   Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument EmptyMon Oct 31, 2011 1:20 pm

The Scotsman wrote:
Like how there's more than one way to eat a Resee's, there's more than one way to play Smash; why is there fighting to begin with?
Because it's a fighting game. :3
Jk.
But yeah, GY's right about this. It's wrong for these types of players to suffer from the superiority complex. What's really annoying is not only when the competitive players like the "All is Brawl" fags that shun others for not playing like them, but also the casuals to claim to know about stuff they're completely unaware about, thinking they "know" about some of these things when they clearly don't, and make ignorant comments, criticizing the way of play the competitive players do.

Such as when they think that having advanced techniques available "takes away the casualness" of the game-play. I mean come on, you're the one pressing the buttons, it's your own damn choice to whether you want to play a certain way or not, regardless of the things some people can do while you can't. Having these options available don't mean you HAVE to use them, they're just there to those who want to use them. Remember that you're the one pressing the buttons the way you want to, you can't perform advanced techniques if you don't damn well feel like it.

^ I directed this second paragraph mostly to someone, and you know both who you are, and my reasoning to this.

Also, for you casuals that think that advanced techniques are impossible, it'd be nice if you stop thinking that. If you actually were to try out these techs while you play, they're extremely easy. It's all just a matter of practice, and the time it takes doing that is very minimal. Otherwise, it's like judging a book by its cover.


Last edited by Excalibur on Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument   Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument EmptyMon Oct 31, 2011 1:30 pm

Personally, I play Smash because it's a well-made game.
I have no problem with people willing to play in tournaments for fun, but it's the fact that the competitive scene is so overly established that really detracts from the accomplishment and sheer enjoyability the game is inclined to offer.
It's reminiscent of the Starcraft zombies of South Korea, only obscurer and less interesting.

Also @Excal I can wavedash and shffl with little trouble, I just don't care enough to apply it while playing.
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PostSubject: Re: Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument   Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument EmptyMon Oct 31, 2011 1:59 pm

*sees thread*
*goes to read*
*sees the quote "The most recent post is actually a great reason for casual and competitive people to just shut up and stop arguing about which way to play is better"*
*thinks he's talking about which one is better and that one is the only good way to play*
Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument 131049944390
Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument Tldrcat
*leaves thread and doesn't come back*
inb4peoplethinkimignorantandrant
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Super Smash Bros Crusade
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PostSubject: Re: Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument   Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument EmptyMon Oct 31, 2011 3:50 pm

*quotes the important part*
-Ran wrote:
With all that said, it's no wonder that it seems strange to you that a character can be such a dramatically altering force in a match between two evenly skilled opponents. We play two different games, which is fine. Smile

And btw everyone, I find both ways fun. I love doing Giant Light Flower Curry Fast 99-Stock matches on Bridge of Eldin with my best friend (while we're both playing Fox). We spend hours cracking up at how we end up dying. However, I get a thrill when I play competitively, never when I play casually. When there's something on the line. When a match is really even and my opponent and I are on our last stock, my heart rate goes way up, as if I had just been sprinting for an hour straight. I find this fun as well.
Coming from a person who plays both ways frequently, neither is superior. Sometimes it's more fun for me to forget about wavebouncing and auto-cancelling my SH-B-Air and SH-Double Laser and wavedashing and everything and just play for laughs. Other times it's fun mindgaming people with Gyrobouncing and Dash > Wavedash back > Dash and repeat, then rushing in for a surprise DACUS (all as Pichu, mind you).

And Excal stop being such a jerk. Generic is entitled to his own opinion, and you don't have to flame him for it. If there's an issue, PM me. I'm the universal mediator.
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PostSubject: Re: Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument   Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument EmptyMon Oct 31, 2011 3:59 pm

Excalibur wrote:

^ I directed this second paragraph mostly to someone, and you know both who you are, and my reasoning to this.

Oh, Ex. I know that you know that I would know that you were referring to yours truly. Very Happy

Buht I'm ok wit that.

I'm pretty much just too lazy to learn these techniques, mostly because I feel like I have better things to do.
(usually I don't, though)

I'll play however I play, win or lose. I have fun anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument   Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument EmptyMon Oct 31, 2011 4:00 pm

Dettadeus wrote:

And Excal stop being such a jerk. Generic is entitled to his own opinion, and you don't have to flame him for it. If there's an issue, PM me. I'm the universal mediator.
I'm not flaming, I'm simply explaining something he won't understand. What's wrong with being honest and stating that it's annoying whenever he thinks having options available take away the casualness of a game? Opinion =/= fact, because what I'm saying is true, don't misunderstand me. In fact, you're being ironic right now since you are putting down MY opinion. There's nothing wrong with stating what's annoying about what someone does, because it helps make them stop, for the most part whenever one is around at least. Is that so bad now?

EDIT: NF, I wasn't talking about you, lol. But glad you see the point I'm trying to get across.

GigaPichu wrote:

I'll play however I play, win or lose. I have fun anyway.
That's the spirit.
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PostSubject: Re: Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument   Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument EmptyMon Oct 31, 2011 4:11 pm

all in all who cares it's just a video game
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PostSubject: Re: Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument   Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument EmptyMon Oct 31, 2011 4:29 pm

Dettadeus wrote:
And Excal stop being such a jerk. Generic is entitled to his own opinion, and you don't have to flame him for it. If there's an issue, PM me. I'm the universal mediator.

I see nothing in his post about Generic.
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PostSubject: Re: Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument   Putting an end to the Casual/Competitive argument EmptyMon Oct 31, 2011 6:05 pm

*just popping in here for a sec without reading any posts because I forgot something*
Just an FYI, I never said Casual was better than competitive. I said it would equal competitive if it weren't for the obsessors.
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