Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)

The thing with characters like 02 and Ridley and such, they havent been THE SAME THING for every smash game or anything.

It would be quite possible to have them dumbed down.

I still think the idea of a dumbed-down Master Hand clone is bloody ridiculous. If Master Hand mode seems too boring, then maybe there could be a cheat code or something. But NO WAY will he EVER be a playable character legitimately. He's a Boss. THE boss. Even if he made a clone of himself, that would just be bad in the fact a more pathetic master hand would just LOOK bad. Master Hand if dumbed-down to playability couldn't stay as himself. He's the final boss of the final bosses, he's supposed to be viewed as the MOST POWERFUL BEING. Dumbing down the lead figure in a group of already dumbed-down characters would ruin the atmosphere that he is supposed to give off.

and STOP USING AKU as an example. PTE is not Smash Bros, and their methods should not be something to take after. I personally thought it was stupid to have Aku as a boss and a playable character at the same time, especially since there's only one of him. Also yeah my points above on why a Master Hand clone (or, 'Apprentice Hand/Servant Hand') would be stupid.

Topping it off, the characters who tried to kill you who arent smash-specific arent SUPPOSED TO be able to do that in the ring. Tabuu WASN'T a Smasher, and wanted to kill all the smashers who were opposing him because he didnt abide by rules like that. Also no, Master Hand probably wouldn't (or couldn't) make a clone of him, since re-making such a terrible figure would be stupidity on his part, especially since he was basically ALSO KILLED by him. To top it all off, Tabuu was supposed to be the most THREATENING ONE of ALL. If HE was dumbed down to playability, then it would, like master hand, totally ruin what he was supposed to be.

Porky could be dumbed down because his Mech could be defeated, just his physical body cannot be destroyed.

I'm sorry, but for the sake of being true to the characters like that, these two will not be playable. Tabuu probably not at all, but a Master Hand-ish thing could probably happen.

Okay, let me think about this. So SSBB had 10 bosses which included petey pirahna, galleom, master hand, crazy hand, tabuu, ridley, meta ridley, porky, Duon, and raquaza.(forgive me if there are more). if you count ridley and metaridley as the character that means we have 3 of the 10 brawl bosses in crusade. If you include Master hand and Crazy hand, that's half of them. Finally if you include tabuu, that more than half of the bosses from brawl. Honestly the way this is going I have no problem with them being playable since 1.)This in no way makes them seem less powerful and 2.) it would seem ALOT of non-forum would support this idea.

Goku ruins any argument you could ever make about dumbing down a character

PH4 you basically dont have a say in the matter anymore, for thinking that Master Hand's Name Glitch in Melee was dumbing him down to playability.

Also if Goku was brought there by master hand, he would've been dumbed down by him. All the smashers who are brought there are (or, they're just holding back).

Master Hand is already holding back on the smashers. There would be no use in him holding back MORE.

Lol ok. His name gltich made him playable. Not traditional style playable, i never once said that. But playable none the less. The only thing that matters about that is that you could fight friends as Master Hand, and it in no way detracted from him. At all.

Master Hand Trophy (Brawl) wrote:

A being tied to the link between this world, where trophies fight, and the world beyond. The meaning of his existence is unknown, as are his goals, but he seems to have obtained (and kept hidden) a power that borders on absolute. He also seems to feel a certain joy in challenging chosen warriors who've claimed many victories. He waits even now in Final Destination.

Master Hand enjoys fighting smashers, just as Sandbag enjoys being of service. MH belongs in the roster far more than sandbag could

I had an idea long ago to make Master Hand (full-on floating all attacks everything) as a final unlockable character, who could not be used online or anything and just be a for-fun character.

It would not detract from him at all.

If THAT'S what you meant, i'd be all for it.

(but not Tabuu)

Perfecthell4 wrote:

Lol ok. His name gltich made him playable. Not traditional style playable, i never once said that. But playable none the less. The only thing that matters about that is that you could fight friends as Master Hand, and it in no way detracted from him. At all.

Would you allow that exact master hand in a tourney

Actually yes. Only if he could take knockback though, in Melee he could be defeated through stamina mode, and he was actually extremely difficult to win with against any character because he was terrible. Though I would much prefer a MH that could move around like anyone else, and we would balance him for competitive just like anyone else

EDIT

Master Hand technically is tournament legal in SSBM, though you'll never see someone do it

Perfecthell4 wrote:

Actually yes. Only if

ok so not exact

That is EXACTLY what I DONT want to happen.

Master Hand doesnt take knock back. Master Hand is a boss through-and-through.

'Balancing' him would ruin him. unless it meant making him stronger (without knockback), I will not let that happen.

Jaklub wrote:

Perfecthell4 wrote:

Actually yes. Only if

ok so not exact

You seem to have missed the edit:

Quote :

Master Hand technically is tournament legal in SSBM

Yeah, sure he is. But you know, thats while HE WASNT CHANGED IN ANY WAY.

Perfecthell4 wrote:

You seem to have missed the edit:

Quote :

Master Hand technically is tournament legal in SSBM

you seem to have missed the point

Because of a glitch. You seriously think his tournament legality has to do with him not being changed? If anything that's the reason he should be banned. Our MH would actually make sense in a tournament, unlike Melee's. Would i Want the Melee MH playable? No. Does that mean a more suitable version shouldn't be playable? No. Its the same as; Do I want Goku playable with all of the power he is known to have? No. Do I want him playable as we have him now? Absolutely.

Even if it would make sense in a tournament, he would break all the rules by flying forever. UNLESS HE'S MADE TO BE LIKE A NORMAL CHARACTER, WHICH WILL NOT HAPPEN.

Perfecthell4 wrote:

Because of a glitch. You seriously think his tournament legality has to do with him not being changed? If anything that's the reason he should be banned. Our MH would actually make sense in a tournament, unlike Melee's. Would i Want the Melee MH playable? No. Does that mean a more suitable version shouldn't be playable? No. Its the same as; Do I want Goku playable with all of the power he is known to have? No. Do I want him playable as we have him now? Absolutely.

making dumbed-down master hand and boss master hand of course, could work

but do we really want it

a mode where you can play as actual master hand is a ton better idea

Man this is awkward; I'm in the middle of responding to this, and I had to leave for class and finish this up later.
It probably listed me as Online in all that time...

GigaPichu wrote:

The thing with characters like 02 and Ridley and such, they havent been THE SAME THING for every smash game or anything.

It would be quite possible to have them dumbed down.

This argument is flawed. Just because they "haven't been the same thing in every Smash game" doesn't mean anything (and if that route is taken, neither would be playable, as 02 has no appearance in Smash whatsoever, so that means he should have no appearance here as well, and Ridley has had non-playable appearances in every Smash thus far, so his appearance should be non-playable as here too.).
And then we go to Sandbag; since his debut in the series, he's been the center of a minigame. Why should he be playable then? The idea of a "souped-up" Sandbag is bloody ridiculous within itself.

GigaPichu wrote:

I still think the idea of a dumbed-down Master Hand clone is bloody ridiculous. If Master Hand mode seems too boring, then maybe there could be a cheat code or something. But NO WAY will he EVER be a playable character legitimately. He's a Boss. THE boss. Even if he made a clone of himself, that would just be bad in the fact a more pathetic master hand would just LOOK bad. Master Hand if dumbed-down to playability couldn't stay as himself. He's the final boss of the final bosses, he's supposed to be viewed as the MOST POWERFUL BEING. Dumbing down the lead figure in a group of already dumbed-down characters would ruin the atmosphere that he is supposed to give off.

Amazing Mirror would have beaten us to the punch. Of course, you seem to not know what I'm talking about, as I doubt you had even PLAYED Amazing Mirror (one of the best Kirby games of all time).

GigaPichu wrote:

and STOP USING AKU as an example. PTE is not Smash Bros, and their methods should not be something to take after. I personally thought it was stupid to have Aku as a boss and a playable character at the same time, especially since there's only one of him. Also yeah my points above on why a Master Hand clone (or, 'Apprentice Hand/Servant Hand') would be stupid.

Doesn't make it any less true of an example. You want me to supply another one?
Onslaught, in some versions of Marvel vs. Capcom is a secret unlockable character, even complete with giant transformation when defeated once. Unsure if you can have Onslaught vs. Onslaught, though.
An example that goes more toward Tabuu is Uriko from Bloody Roar. In her debut appearance, she was able to turn into a chimera (characters turn into animal-people) and was powerful and uncontrollable. She was the Final Boss in the first game. Come the sequel, she was made more stable (and overall a friendly person) and became a playable character. Her animal form from then on? A catgirl.
And don't pull the "neither of those games are Smash" crap; guess what? Crusade isn't Smash either. Nope, it's a fangame based on Smash that breaks what Smash is about; Nintendo All-Stars (with limited guests).

GigaPichu wrote:

Topping it off, the characters who tried to kill you who arent smash-specific arent SUPPOSED TO be able to do that in the ring. Tabuu WASN'T a Smasher, and wanted to kill all the smashers who were opposing him because he didnt abide by rules like that. Also no, Master Hand probably wouldn't (or couldn't) make a clone of him, since re-making such a terrible figure would be stupidity on his part, especially since he was basically ALSO KILLED by him. To top it all off, Tabuu was supposed to be the most THREATENING ONE of ALL. If HE was dumbed down to playability, then it would, like master hand, totally ruin what he was supposed to be.

This argument is the weakest one that has been made.
For one, I never said a clone Tabuu, and two, as long as we have Goku, any argument of "power" is automatically invalid. He's been dumbed down a considerable amount.
And three; Ridley wasn't a Smasher either. He tried to kill Samus like he normally does, then Pikachu after it used Thunder on him, then the team on the Isle of the Ancients as Meta Ridley. Either by killing them himself or by delaying their escape to where they blow up with the island.
Porky attempted to CRUSH Lucas with the Ping King Statue.
Rayquaza, a territorial beast, was trying to kill Fox and Diddy Kong like the Rayquaza in the movie was trying to do to Deoxys.
Unlike these guys, Tabuu fully knew you CAN'T kill a Smasher. His methods were always to turn into Trophies, what CAN be done to them. That's why he made the Dark Cannons he gave to Bowser, Ganondorf, and Wario.
If anything, Ganondorf showed more of being murderous than Tabuu, since Ganondorf caused a self-genocide within R.O.B.'s clan by making the rest of the R.O.B. Squad detonate all of the remaining Subspace Bombs at once.

GigaPichu wrote:

Porky could be dumbed down because his Mech could be defeated, just his physical body cannot be destroyed.

....Master Hand and Tabuu can be defeated too. What is this, I don't even...
And like I said, it's not like Master Hand hasn't been "dumbed-down" before. Amazing Mirror's Master Hand was utterly pathetic; slow as all Hell, didn't have a majority of his capabilities from Smash, and was a weak recurring mini-boss. The only time he posed a challenge was as the Boss of Area 9, alongside Crazy Hand, but even then, they were pathetic. For one thing, Crazy Hand was "Crazy" in name only. It would have been more accurate just to call him "Left Master Hand", as all he literally was was a mirrored Master Hand. For another, still easily defeated. The only difference between the mini-boss fights and this was that you fought two of them that could occasionally clap together to hurt you (in a very slow manner).

GigaPichu wrote:

I'm sorry, but for the sake of being true to the characters like that, these two will not be playable. Tabuu probably not at all, but a Master Hand-ish thing could probably happen.

If either were to end up in the Top 16 for the main DLC poll, who are you to say they won't happen? You can be immature and refuse to sprite them, but that won't do any good, as we've got other spriters, including one who is willing to make them.

GigaPichu wrote:

Master Hand doesnt take knock back. Master Hand is a boss through-and-through.

You automatically have no say anymore because of this. You have made two characters with no knockback viable with knockback. They are bosses through-and-through within their own canon and Smash's canon.

You're kidding me, right Golden?

I honestly didnt think you could get any less credible.

You misread ALL OF MY ARGUMENTS.
It's like CRAZY how badly you butchered it.

I didnt say that 02 and blah were in every smash game, I said that they were never solidified as anything in smash to begin with. In SSE Ridley Porky etc were obviously souped up by Tabuu, easpecially with Porky being twice regular size ETC.

I also know about Master Hand in Amazing Mirror. THAT Master Hand was basically meant to be cameo, same as with Smash Kirby. Obviously he wasnt the best there. Notice also that MH is still regarded as a Smash Character in the games.

Also, even if people are willing to sprite them as small playable characters, it will not be accepted. None of the programmers are doing it, I can assure you.
This entire thread is a lost cause, and what is happening is happening.

Master Hand and Tabuu will not be dumbed-down DLC, and that's final.

I appologise to anyone who was misled

You don't have final say. No one has final say. Not you, not me, no one. This isn't Super "Whoever Giga Wants And No One He Doesn't" Bros. Crusade.
But it is what the community voted upon.

So it is with that reason they are now candidates for the main DLC poll. If you have a problem with that, too bad.
If they get mysteriously removed, Sandbag's going too.