Character Removal for a Practical Roster?

Pepe is a dead meme Shaq.

If we should ever get a Modern Meme, it'd probably be Bigley.
Originated in Miiverse, the most terrible place in Nintendo's History. <3

never speak the name of that accursed frog

also is it 7 GRAND DAD or is it fortran these are different bootleg marios

What about this Meme

Trinitro, don't open it's the Supa Hot Gif:

DestinyIntwined wrote:

What about this Meme

Trinitro, don't open it's the Supa Hot Gif:

Reported.

The only ones I think should be removed are Goku, Geno and Petey. But that's really just my personal tastes.

Mario123311 wrote:

The only ones I think should be removed are Goku, Geno and Petey. But that's really just my personal tastes.

0 reason to remove Petey or Geno

Why do people hate on Geno lol. Petey is pretty meh (imo) but definitely doesn't need to be cut, and Goku... ehh.

Except that both of them overrep the Mario roster IMO, I'm not going to start an argument but it's a pretty well debated thing in Smash 4 already with Rosalina and Bowser Jr.

AmareTSM wrote:

Why do people hate on Geno lol. Petey is pretty meh (imo) but definitely doesn't need to be cut, and Goku... ehh.

Because to some people like me, He's irrelevant and just overrated ((Not to mention utterly forgotten.)) or just "Ow the edge".

Just my thoughts though, I don't speak for everyone.

Mario123311 wrote:

Except that both of them overrep the Mario roster IMO, I'm not going to start an argument but it's a pretty well debated thing in Smash 4 already with Rosalina and Bowser Jr.

AmareTSM wrote:

Why do people hate on Geno lol. Petey is pretty meh (imo) but definitely doesn't need to be cut, and Goku... ehh.

Because to some people like me, He's irrelevant and just overrated ((Not to mention utterly forgotten.)) or just "Ow the edge".

Just my thoughts though, I don't speak for everyone.

It overreps the most popular gaming series of all time???? In a game with over 60 characters????
I know about Smash 4 debates. No one thinks Rosalina and Jr overrep Mario. But I know they DO think adding another Mario rep could overrep it. But that's not an issue in Crusade because this isn't Smash 4.

I've stated it before and I'll say it again, I really think Snivy should get the boot, mainly because he hurts the chances of other potential and generally better Pokemon characters from getting in.
He's the only character I think needs to go really, but if we WERE going for a "practical" roster (which I'm pretty sure we're not), then Weegee, Goku, and maybe Petey would be other good choices to cut. Personally I feel like Petey's an alright idea, but pretty insignificant compared to the likes of, say, Paper Mario or King Boo. Tbh his inclusion comes off as really weird no matter how much I think about it, but it depends on how much you want to rep Mario I guess.

Chaotic Chao wrote:

I've stated it before and I'll say it again, I really think Snivy should get the boot, mainly because he hurts the chances of other potential and generally better Pokemon characters from getting in.
He's the only character I think needs to go really, but if we WERE going for a "practical" roster (which I'm pretty sure we're not), then Weegee, Goku, and maybe Petey would be other good choices to cut. Personally I feel like Petey's an alright idea, but pretty insignificant compared to the likes of, say, Paper Mario or King Boo. Tbh his inclusion comes off as really weird no matter how much I think about it, but it depends on how much you want to rep Mario I guess.

?? He is in the top 10 of the most recurring Mario villains from what I can tell. And that's a pretty big thing. He also is in quite a bit of games, mainline, spin-off, RPG, and he's not as minor as you guys seem to think in the grand scale.

Not necessarily minor, but less significant than other characters, is what I mean. For one reason or another, he's either less important or less requested/popular than the likes of characters like Mario, Dr. Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad, Wario, Ashley, Waluigi, Rosalina, Bowser Jr, Geno, and Paper Mario...that's like, 11 characters if you don't count Doc, and two of them are actual Smash characters who aren't even in Crusade yet. Not saying he needs to be cut, just that he's a pretty odd choice, all things considered.

Lego Shaq wrote:

?? He is in the top 10 of the most recurring Mario villains from what I can tell. And that's a pretty big thing.

No it's not lol, there aren't that many recurring Mario villans.

Here's my thoughts on Petey: He wasn't a great choice. If the roster were to be redone, I doubt he would be in. But he isn't worth being taken out.

You could actually say that about a lot of characters tbh.

AmareTSM wrote:

Lego Shaq wrote:

?? He is in the top 10 of the most recurring Mario villains from what I can tell. And that's a pretty big thing.

No it's not lol, there aren't that many recurring Mario villans.

Here's my thoughts on Petey: He wasn't a great choice. If the roster were to be redone, I doubt he would be in. But he isn't worth being taken out.

You could actually say that about a lot of characters tbh.

Okay, maybe not so, but he is still a pretty big villain in the franchise.

As you said tons of the characters weren't good choices lol

I'd say Fawful would make a bit more sense with his height and whatnot.

Mario123311 wrote:

I'd say Fawful would make a bit more sense with his height and whatnot.

But we included Ridley?
Plus Fawful and Petey can totally co-exist. Petey makes much more sense then Fawful; I think Fawful should be in Crusade but he's been in 3 games.

What characters does Snivy block out, exactly? For sheer numbers, Pokemon is like Mario in that it's massive enough to get a bit more representation than others. It maybe blocks out some Grass-types, but only ones with significant design overlap (i.e. grass reptiles). The only notable loss from that is Grovyle, and now that PSMD has brought in other potential PMD rep that's not a huge loss.

Well there's Grovyle, yes, but there's also Ivysaur, who's chances of inclusion suffer for the same reason despite being a veteran unlike Grovyle (though arguably his chances are iffy anyway since Gen 1 gets a lot of representation already). Snivy's inclusion also means Gen 5 is already repped, so other potential characters from that Gen would have to be considered with a more restrictive attitude since I'm pretty sure it's generally believed that repping one Gen from the Pokemon series too much is something to avoid (unless, again, it's Gen 1 I guess, since Smash has had like seven Gen 1 chars over time). Also, character-wise, its significance is pretty low compared to, say, Zoroark (though admittedly higher than any random generic starter due to its popularity I suppose).

Ivysaur has a totally distinct design and playstyle from Snivy. Zoroark, too. Both have plenty going for them, so I don't think "Snivy exists" is gonna be that huge of an obstacle to their inclusion.

Well honestly, here's the way I think we should see it: if no characters that the original dev team added are ever getting removed, then...why even consider them at all when adding more characters? Especially with the current dev team admitting that a lot of the characters are weird or iffy choices (poor Goku seems to be the Charlie Brown of the roster lol), you would think that those choices should matter the least when considering new additions. Instead of working around Snivy, I say we just forget he's there for a second if it means adding Grovyle, for instance.
If you really want to push it, you could use him as an excuse to add more starter Pokemon (I for one would love to have any stupid-ass excuse to play as Totodile or his two other stages, heh), and actually, since the whole Unova Trainer idea was scrapped, it might actually make sense to do that to make up for it.

One thing I've noticed is that existing roster characters seem to be used as SUPPORTING arguments, rather than main points against a characters' inclusion. No one is getting excluded entirely because of an existing character, but it seems like when people have an argument against a character they almost have to BS some sort of character overlap to support it. It's a weird sort of culture in this particular subforum, or maybe it's just me.

Well...character overlap isn't exactly nonexistent. You do have to admit that Snivy and Grovyle are...extremely similar. Both from Pokemon, both grass types, both starters, both reptilian in nature...it's understandable to want more variety than that I think, and I'd hardly call that "BS." There's also the issue of over-representation (which doesn't bother me at all, but I'm not the only one to consider, after all), and the fact that Pokemon has a ton of potential playable characters...

Oh nah, Grovyle's a definite case of overlap, and I don't fault people bringing that up as an argument (especially since Ampharos is now a better PMD rep, cough cough). But like, in the Adeleine thread, Smash King has a post where he has a BOATLOAD of very good counter-arguments... but then he also says that Kirby, Gooey, and Meta Knight are already in, with Dedede likely coming as well, and that Adeleine would be too many, despite the fact that she'd play entirely differently. That's one of the LESSER reaches I've seen, too, but I just skimmed the first page for this.

I'll be honest, if some characters have to go it has to be:

- Goku, because he's an animu/manga character.

- Snivy, because there are much better Pokémon choices, also his/her size is completely off scale, It's ridiculous.

- Gooey, Why he is in the game and Dedede still isn't just baffles me.

- Saki Amamiya, ...Who?

- Pheonix Wright, Utterly atrocious moveset. ( Inb4 git gud. )

but weegee's fine then

also pokemon sizes have always been kinda fudged in smash

If canon size mattered then Ridley could just step on everybody and Olimar would get stepped on by everyone

Chaotic Chao wrote:

If canon size mattered then Ridley could just step on everybody and Olimar would get stepped on by everyone

That doesn't change the fact that there are MUCH better choices of Pokémon than Snivy.

I still stand on my opinion, Snivy needs to go.

Your reasoning aside from that is fair I suppose, but

JaegerKrieg wrote:

- Saki Amamiya, ...Who?
- Pheonix Wright, Utterly atrocious moveset. ( Inb4 git gud. )

Not for these two. Just because you don't know who Saki is means he should be cut? Really? And, uh, movesets can be changed. There's been a LOT of talk about changing Wright's moveset, fyi.

wait what's the point about talking about removing characters if removing characters isn't going to happen