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 Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!

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Lego Shaq



  Petey Piranha
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PostSubject: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:07 am


DEBUT: Street Fighter II (1991)
LATEST APPEARANCE: Street Fighter V (2016, yet to be released)

Zangief is a massive hulk of a Russian man with a bulky outside but a soft inside. A bear wrestler known for his piledrives, he is a regular fighter in the Street Fighter series who often goes by “The Red Cyclone”.

Zangief is a gaming icon, and one of Street Fighter’s most popular and long-running characters. He appears in Street Fighter Alpha 2 and 3, Street Fighter 2, Street Fighter 4, and will be appearing in Street Fighter 5. Notice he’s not in Street Fighter 3; well, like, nobody was, that game was an attempt to reboot the roster. But that’s besides the point; Zangief is known for basically creating the “grappler” fighter character! That’s an entire fighting style in gaming created by him. And not only that, Zangief is one of the few characters to appear in nearly every single Street Fighter movie adaptation to date. And alongside M. Bison, he had a memorable cameo in Wreck-It Ralph, which is a pretty cool honor.

It’s pretty unarguable Zangief’s a iconic character, but his main issue with Crusade is the fact that we have 3 SF reps already. The thing is, Chun-Li and Evil Ryu? Both of those are at least semi-clones of Ryu. Zangief has the potential to be the most unique Street Fighter rep yet, on the level of Ryu even.

This time around, argument’s against Zangief are pretty understandable. So let me present them!

4 Street Fighter Reps?!
I can understand the anger here. But you have to understand just how unique Zangief would be, and his popularity in gaming. Sega’s flagship series is Sonic, and Capcom’s is Street Fighter. Zangief would be the most unique SF rep alongside Ryu; the other 2 SF reps so far are Ryu semi-clones, sadly. There’s not really much I can say here because it’s a valid argument.

Zangief Over Ken/Akuma/Blanka/ETC?
Zangief, I feel, offers a lot more then Ken for Crusade. A diverse body type, and Ken would, like it or not, be a semi-clone of Ryu somehow. Akuma is basically Evil Ryu, and Blanka, while having a lot of recognition, doesn’t really have the same amount of gaming popularity as Zangief from what I’ve seen. And for all other characters; make that match-up in your mind or throw it at me in this thread.

A Generic Wrestler Character?
First off; no, he’s not a generic wrestler. He has many unique moves and features that differentiate him from other gaming wrestlers. And it’s not like we have any wrestlers in Crusade, so that shouldn’t be a problem even if he is a wrestler.

I’m sure there are more arguments, but let’s move onto the moveset.

Zangief’s Moveset
Zangief is a grappler/wrestler character who fits in his trademark piledrivers, as well as many brute force moves. What’s also cool about Zangief is that if you tap the hit button on his neutral and aerial moves, he can hit more times with different hits. Basically, he can combo in neutral and aerial moves.



Zangief’s Neutral Moves

Jab: Zangief swipes one fist straight forward, then slams a fist outward from his hip, and then hits the opponent with a quick wind-up punch in the face.

Side Tilt: Zangief kicks one foot outward and hits the opponent in the knee, then hits them in the hip, then rotates and hits his opponent with a big kick, sending them back.

Up Tilt: Zangief brings his shoulder down on the opponent’s head, then swings both arms forward, with both arms grasped together, before smashing the opponent straight upwards with a headbutt.

Down Tilt: Zangief swings one arm upward, slams his fist straight forward, then sweeps his foot straight forward.

Ledge Attack: Zangief dropkicks quickly forward and gets up immediately after.

Get-Up Attack: Zangief performs a split, which can hurt opponents.

Crouch Attack: Zangief slices his fist forward, before elbowing upwards and swinging a big fist forward.

Zangief’s Special Moves

Neutral Special: Zangief performs his piledriver! He reaches out in a “bear hug motion” and grabs the enemy, holding then downwards, before jumping upwards while rotating and then slams downward, making the enemy slam into the ground.

Side Special: Zangief performs his lariat! Tilting forward, he begins to spin round and round, rotating, with both his fists stretched outward. He moves forward while doing this, a bit slowly, and any opponent caught in the lariat is juggled until he finishes the move off with a flex. Also a good horizontal recovery.

Up Special: Zangief performs his power bomb! Rushing forward, Zangief grabs the opponent and hops straight forward, before smashing the opponent right into the ground, leaving them stunned momentarily. If used in the air, Zangief just hops straight forward with decent vertical distance, a bit like a frog

Down Special: Zangief brings the opponent to Suplex City! He grabs the opponent for a backwards suplex...but if you keep repeatedly tapping, he’ll perform up to 4 suplexes. If you do your Down Special near a projectile, Zangief performs Banishing Flat, in which he side steps before putting his fist forward infront of his hip, having absorbed the projectile, and his fist glows green.

Zangief’s Grabs

Grab: Zangief gives the opponent a bear hug.

Pummel: Zangief rapidly squeezes the opponent against his chest.

Forward Throw: Zangief lifts the opponent up, before throwing them straight onto the ground infront of him.

Back Throw: Zangief grabs the opponent and lifts them up to his shoulders, before falling straight backward with the opponent in tow, then quickly getting up with the opponent laying behind him.

Up Throw: Zangief kneels down and throws the opponent straight backwards behind him, slightly tilted.

Down Throw: Zangief picks up the opponent and hops upward before slamming them straight down.

Zangief’s Aerials

Neutral Aerial: Zangief dropkicks.

Forward Aerial: Zangief roundhouse kicks forward and then slices his fist forward, slightly tilted downward.

Back Aerial: Zangief roundhouse kicks backward, then rotates and slices his fist backwards, slightly tilted downwards like the forward aerial.

Up Aerial: Zangief headbutts upwards then slams both fists upwards.

Down Aerial: Zangief smashes his knees straight forward and then body slams downward for a meteor attack.



End Note
I hope you enjoyed the moveset! Alt colors, Final Smash, and etc are coming soon, but I wanted to get a new thread out. Please give feedback, and thanks for reading!
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:21 am

If Zangief is not in this game, who will crush man's skull like sparrow's eggs between thighs?


I like the idea of a heavy hitting grappler, but I dunno if Zangief is the best choice over someone from a new series (for example, Haggar). That's really the only thing I can say against him, otherwise I would definitely support him.
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MarioStrikerMurphy1994
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:23 am

Not bad the idea.

Zangief is another of my most favourite characters in the Street Fighter games.

So, support!
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Lego Shaq



  Petey Piranha
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:24 am

Roy wrote:
If Zangief is not in this game, who will crush man's skull like sparrow's eggs between thighs?


I like the idea of a heavy hitting grappler, but I dunno if Zangief is the best choice over someone from a new series (for example, Haggar). That's really the only thing I can say against him, otherwise I would definitely support him.
Look at this without thinking "man, but shouldn't another series guy be in first?". Just look at it as a new rep. But thank you for the kinda-support, and that's very true, who else will?

MarioStrikerMurphy1994 wrote:
Not bad the idea.

Zangief is another of my most favourite characters in the Street Fighter games.

So, support!
Thank you!
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:25 am

Lego Shaq wrote:
Look at this without thinking "man, but shouldn't another series guy be in first?". Just look at it as a new rep. But thank you for the kinda-support, and that's very true, who else will?
I guess in that sort of way, I'll support him. Why not?
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:59 am

Why not Hagger? Oh well, support.
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Athorment
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:18 am

support for the Siberian Blizzard! o/

Although i would like to point out that Zangief has never been known for being a combo character. The effort is appreciated, but Zangief's strength & wrestling alone would make him unique enough. imo.

These "Combo mixups" (Is he going to go for the 3rd crouch attack? or do 1? Frick, they did two) sound much better for a different type of character, one that relies more on combos than raw kill power.

Plus removing the combos allow Zangief to better reference his Street Fighter moves more properly, making him a character you don't want to have in front of you due to his strength (Usually safe on block) being properly backed up by a command grab.

Side Smash could be either his Standing heavy from Street fighter V (Long wind up, but huge reach) or the "Green Hand" (He steps forward with hand lit on green fire).

That "Split" on his get up attack sounds weird on Zangief. Just have him lariat in a sitting position (DK kinda does this in sm4sh).

The 4 Suplexes sound good as a Final Smash since he performs this as his super in Marvel Vs Capcom games of old.

Side B is usually the button combination for Command Grabs (Lucario, Bowser) so i would have that one be the Grab, Jump and slam upside down you put as Down B. Beware of missing with that because it has tons of End Lag.
His Lariat would then be good for a Down B instead OR it could be his Up B if you give it the Link treatment: Grounded is a Single hit and stays (Mostly) in place while the aerial hits a couple of times while providing better height distance, but less strength.

I would give him as a Dash animation the command grab he does in SFIV where he lifts his arms up in an obvious "I'm gonna grab you!" pose. He does move a little faster than his walk speed, but not by much. Dash Attack? Finishing the reference and having him actually command grab: He slaps downwards to make the oppent bend forward, then proceeds to pick them up and slam.

Forward Air could potentially be a very "Donkey Kong Side B" move where he headbutts forward. In Street Fighter IV it has tons of Stun to it. i believe 3 succesfully landed Headbutts on standing characters causes a Stun state. To reference this, It could get added Shield damage (To break shields and "Stun" the opponent) or actually bypass all this and if you hit a standing foe with a sweetspot, it Stuns them for a shorter period of time of that of a shield break (which would be enough for a guaranteed command grab anyway).
Neutral Air has him extending his arms up like King Dedede's Neutral Air. It's a quick move to break out of Smash bros combos.
Down Air could be a belly flop/Slam, but if it feels like a copy of Dr. Mario's Ground pound, then it could instead have him "Dive kick" with fists diagonally forward.

A possible Down B idea could be taken from Street Fighter V where he super armors through attacks/projectiles by posing and turning his skin red. To differentiate from a power shield, he could potentially cancel it into his SF dash to help him chase the campier characters.

Down throw could reference his Ultra move. He performs a back-breaker with his knee and tosses the opponent forward, which in turn provides a tech chase reminicent of Street Fighter games.

Summary:
-Neutral B. Slow command grab with tons of end lag. It's his iconic piledriver move though so it is guaranteed to cause massive damage and possibly KO below 100% (depending on ceiling).
-Side B. "Green Hand". Has an invencible start up and has decent shield pressure. Quick start up and can collide with projectiles. Doesn't have any Kill power though since it's knockback is minimum.
OR
"Suplex". Zangief charges like Ike and then darts forward somewhat fast (Well, faster than his dash/run for sure). Command grab that grabs the opponent, turns around and uses the momentum to suplex them. Possible "Ganoncide" option in the air, though it might travel half the distance for balancing
-Up B. Lariat. Spins around like a "Red Cyclone". Grounded is a single powerful hit while airborne provides some recovery while being multi hit. It's easy to intercept directly from above and it doesn't have much height anyway, making Zangief a Gimp or get gimped fighter.
-Down B. Red Skin "Parry". Same as Focus Attack, but grants Zangief with better positioning for punishing while also giving some air mobility and a landing option.
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your goth gf
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:34 pm

defo would like to see a grappler in a smash context but i'm not sure how i feel about another SF char from a figurative perspective. too many capcom characters and it touches on capcom vs. territory, like i said in another thread

if this was pre-smash 4 i would be completely opposed to it however ryu is now a smash veteran and it no longer seems like a totally ridiculous "deviantart fake brawl roster" notion. just like how in the olden days of smash fangames multiple playable sonics were expected

lego shaq i trust you to back me up on this, though: if the other veteran third party series get over-representation treatment you guys better approve at least 2 new MGS characters. my fangirlism depends on it. i need to have taunt parties with ocelot.

put me down for support anyhow
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Lego Shaq



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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:46 pm

Athorment wrote:
support for the Siberian Blizzard! o/

Although i would like to point out that Zangief has never been known for being a combo character. The effort is appreciated, but Zangief's strength & wrestling alone would make him unique enough. imo.

These "Combo mixups" (Is he going to go for the 3rd crouch attack? or do 1? Frick, they did two) sound much better for a different type of character, one that relies more on combos than raw kill power.

Plus removing the combos allow Zangief to better reference his Street Fighter moves more properly, making him a character you don't want to have in front of you due to his strength (Usually safe on block) being properly backed up by a command grab.

Side Smash could be either his Standing heavy from Street fighter V (Long wind up, but huge reach) or the "Green Hand" (He steps forward with hand lit on green fire).

That "Split" on his get up attack sounds weird on Zangief. Just have him lariat in a sitting position (DK kinda does this in sm4sh).

The 4 Suplexes sound good as a Final Smash since he performs this as his super in Marvel Vs Capcom games of old.

Side B is usually the button combination for Command Grabs (Lucario, Bowser) so i would have that one be the Grab, Jump and slam upside down you put as Down B. Beware of missing with that because it has tons of End Lag.
His Lariat would then be good for a Down B instead OR it could be his Up B if you give it the Link treatment: Grounded is a Single hit and stays (Mostly) in place while the aerial hits a couple of times while providing better height distance, but less strength.

I would give him as a Dash animation the command grab he does in SFIV where he lifts his arms up in an obvious "I'm gonna grab you!" pose. He does move a little faster than his walk speed, but not by much. Dash Attack? Finishing the reference and having him actually command grab: He slaps downwards to make the oppent bend forward, then proceeds to pick them up and slam.

Forward Air could potentially be a very "Donkey Kong Side B" move where he headbutts forward. In Street Fighter IV it has tons of Stun to it. i believe 3 succesfully landed Headbutts on standing characters causes a Stun state. To reference this, It could get added Shield damage (To break shields and "Stun" the opponent) or actually bypass all this and if you hit a standing foe with a sweetspot, it Stuns them for a shorter period of time of that of a shield break (which would be enough for a guaranteed command grab anyway).
Neutral Air has him extending his arms up like King Dedede's Neutral Air. It's a quick move to break out of Smash bros combos.
Down Air could be a belly flop/Slam, but if it feels like a copy of Dr. Mario's Ground pound, then it could instead have him "Dive kick" with fists diagonally forward.

A possible Down B idea could be taken from Street Fighter V where he super armors through attacks/projectiles by posing and turning his skin red. To differentiate from a power shield, he could potentially cancel it into his SF dash to help him chase the campier characters.

Down throw could reference his Ultra move. He performs a back-breaker with his knee and tosses the opponent forward, which in turn provides a tech chase reminicent of Street Fighter games.

Summary:
-Neutral B. Slow command grab with tons of end lag. It's his iconic piledriver move though so it is guaranteed to cause massive damage and possibly KO below 100% (depending on ceiling).
-Side B. "Green Hand". Has an invencible start up and has decent shield pressure. Quick start up and can collide with projectiles. Doesn't have any Kill power though since it's knockback is minimum.
OR
"Suplex". Zangief charges like Ike and then darts forward somewhat fast (Well, faster than his dash/run for sure). Command grab that grabs the opponent, turns around and uses the momentum to suplex them. Possible "Ganoncide" option in the air, though it might travel half the distance for balancing
-Up B. Lariat. Spins around like a "Red Cyclone". Grounded is a single powerful hit while airborne provides some recovery while being multi hit. It's easy to intercept directly from above and it doesn't have much height anyway, making Zangief a Gimp or get gimped fighter.
-Down B. Red Skin "Parry". Same as Focus Attack, but grants Zangief with better positioning for punishing while also giving some air mobility and a landing option.
Thanks for your feedback, it really is appreciated.

The Side B, however, is his projectile-cancelling Down Special, the Banishing Flat. So I don't think I'm going to change that, since it's already in the moveset.

The Neutral B you did is basically his piledriver, but a command grab and some lag? Good idea. Could make it a bit more true to the character.

The Up B being changed to Lariat...I'm not really feeling it, I think. Because that's basically his Side Special in SF4, the Lariat. But I like the idea.

The Parry is, as you said, a focus attack, and I feel that that's not really needed, because that's not a Zangief move, that's just a Street Fighter move.

Dash Attack is a bit too complicated for a dash attack. I think it'll be something like that, but not a command grab.

The Combo Mix-Up was included because I wanted to make him even more different from other fighters. He's not known for his combos, but he can pull them off like every other Street Fighter character; I don't see the reason for not including them, it just makes him more unique.

I do like your ideas, and I may incorporate a few of them into his moveset. But thanks for the support!


your goth gf wrote:
defo would like to see a grappler in a smash context but i'm not sure how i feel about another SF char from a figurative perspective. too many capcom characters and it touches on capcom vs. territory, like i said in another thread

if this was pre-smash 4 i would be completely opposed to it however ryu is now a smash veteran and it no longer seems like a totally ridiculous "deviantart fake brawl roster" notion. just like how in the olden days of smash fangames multiple playable sonics were expected

lego shaq i trust you to back me up on this, though: if the other veteran third party series get over-representation treatment you guys better approve at least 2 new MGS characters. my fangirlism depends on it. i need to have taunt parties with ocelot.

put me down for support anyhow
The thing is is that Capcom only has 5 reps so far, which is a good amount for Capcom's iconic games and longevity. I feel adding one more wouldn't make it Capcom VS, well, at least if other 3rd parties from other companies are added before Zangief.

And yes that's tru, Big Boss and Raiden are perfect picks, Ocelot should be in too lmao. Thanks for the support!
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TaXMaN
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:57 pm

Street Fighter is Capcom's flagship series? What about Mega Man? I think the Blue Bomber should get 1 or 2 reps before SF gets it's fourth.
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Lego Shaq



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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:10 pm

TaXMaN wrote:
Street Fighter is Capcom's flagship series? What about Mega Man? I think the Blue Bomber should get 1 or 2 reps before SF gets it's fourth.
Megaman, like it or not, is gone in the videogame world. All we see now are collections of his old games, some figures and merch, and that's really it. For his aniversary, we were given Mega Man VS Some Street Fighter Characters. I like him too but he's not as flagship as Street Fighter, nowadays. He's a classic character but him actually getting games outside of crossovers has been done for for a long time.

And I never said he shouldn't get 1 or 2 more reps. But as I said to Roy, look at this without "BUT THIS GUY NEEDS TO BE IN FIRST" goggles.
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Sean_McMuffin
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:41 pm

I'd rather take Zero from Mega Man over another SF rep. But if we were to get another SF rep it would probably be Zangief or Blanka. Personally, I would take Blanka in that decision.
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Lego Shaq



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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:43 pm

Sean_McMuffin wrote:
I'd rather take Zero from Mega Man over another SF rep. But if we were to get another SF rep it would probably be Zangief or Blanka. Personally, I would take Blanka in that decision.
This is the third time someone's gone "UHHH BUT THIS CAPCOM DUDE HAS TO BE IN FIRST". Please, stop. Zero and Zangief can both be in. No, for that matter, any Capcom rep and Zangief can be in.

I fail to see why Blanka should be in over Zangief, but I can understand if it's on a personal level. Hope this doesn't sound too harsh.
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:54 pm

I'll throw in some support
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lordvaati
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:11 am

*imagines trying to do a 360 motion in a Smash Bros game*

*cries silently*
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Lego Shaq



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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:35 am

lordvaati wrote:
*imagines trying to do a 360 motion in a Smash Bros game*

*cries silently*
Quality feedback

Seriously, I worked hard on this. I don't want to be a party pooper but I'd appreciate even a "Support!" after that.
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:34 am

I can see why people would want Blanka over Zangief, though for me that's only because I have very vivid memories of fighting Blanka in Street Fighter II on my Genesis. I guess the main thing is that Blanka is more visually distinctive than Zangief, and has an electricity gimmick.
I can also see why people would want more Mega Man reps in before Street Fighter. Personally, I'd like to see representation of other, less Nintendo-related Capcom franchises (Devil May Cry, Okami, Viewtiful Joe), but I realize they've got a way lower chance to get in.
Now, Shaq, it's a great moveset. But you can't really ask people to base their support solely on that, when it's possible that giving Zangief support, even though they want Zero more, results in him getting in over Zero. You do good work, but support, to me, is about saying that you want this character in Crusade, and would like them to be like they're suggested here. If Zangief were in Crusade, I would definitely want him to play like this. But I don't actively want him in Crusade.
So, no support. Not because it's a bad moveset, but because I'm uninterested in the character.
Also, Mega Man is totally still alive today. Mighty No. 9? Red Ash?
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:12 am

Naughty Ottsel wrote:
I can see why people would want Blanka over Zangief, though for me that's only because I have very vivid memories of fighting Blanka in Street Fighter II on my Genesis. I guess the main thing is that Blanka is more visually distinctive than Zangief, and has an electricity gimmick.
I can also see why people would want more Mega Man reps in before Street Fighter. Personally, I'd like to see representation of other, less Nintendo-related Capcom franchises (Devil May Cry, Okami, Viewtiful Joe), but I realize they've got a way lower chance to get in.
Now, Shaq, it's a great moveset. But you can't really ask people to base their support solely on that, when it's possible that giving Zangief support, even though they want Zero more, results in him getting in over Zero. You do good work, but support, to me, is about saying that you want this character in Crusade, and would like them to be like they're suggested here. If Zangief were in Crusade, I would definitely want him to play like this. But I don't actively want him in Crusade.
So, no support. Not because it's a bad moveset, but because I'm uninterested in the character.
Also, Mega Man is totally still alive today. Mighty No. 9? Red Ash?
I'm not asking anyone to support for the moveset. And you're putting too much stock in support; Zero may have, say, 10, while Zangief gets 15, hypothetically. If anything they'd be worked on at the same time if they even get in. We don't know how the dev process works, but that's my assumption.
If that's not sarcasm; That's not Megaman. If it is sarcasm; Gud one
But thanks for the feedback Ottsel. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it's appreciated as always.
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:30 am

Naughty Ottsel wrote:
Also, Mega Man is totally still alive today. Mighty No. 9? Red Ash?

This is prime evidence of how dead Mega Man actually is

Edit: Unless you were joking, in which case, you got me
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Athorment
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:58 am

Naughty Ottsel wrote:
I guess the main thing is that Blanka is more visually distinctive than Zangief, and has an electricity gimmick.

I don't share that opinion. Green man with distinctive hair vs Giant over-muscley man with distinctive (chest) hair? sound about the same to me.
Also, Electricity "gimmick" is underwhelming... we already got Pikachu who does that.
Ultimately, Blanka doesn't do much and isn't representative enough beyond being Ono's favorite character (which is irrelevant in crusade terms of getting in)

Naughty Ottsel wrote:
I can also see why people would want more Mega Man reps in before Street Fighter. Personally, I'd like to see representation of other, less Nintendo-related Capcom franchises (Devil May Cry, Okami, Viewtiful Joe), but I realize they've got a way lower chance to get in.

The thing is... We are discussing zangief here. We can all agree to that, right? If people want a mega man rep then they should go make a post/Show their support on the corresponding character thread. They can make all the noise they want there.

Naughty Ottsel wrote:
Now, Shaq, it's a great moveset. But you can't really ask people to base their support solely on that, when it's possible that giving Zangief support, even though they want Zero more, results in him getting in over Zero.

Uh... isn't that the point though? That the most supported characters get in? If more people vote for Zangief, wouldn't that mean that he deserved the spot over Zero? I could say that "X character is more deserving!", but people's votes will determine that.

Not to mention that Zero can still make it in beside Zangief if he gets enough support on his own thread. The Dev team is not going to go "Final character! uh... Zangief!" and call it a day. There are many more slots pending to be filled (which aren't even set on stone too)

Naughty Ottsel wrote:
You do good work, but support, to me, is about saying that you want this character in Crusade, and would like them to be like they're suggested here. If Zangief were in Crusade, I would definitely want him to play like this. But I don't actively want him in Crusade.
So, no support.

That's a valid way of seeing it, but support (to me) is about saying that you would totally play/enjoy seeing this character in crusade. If Zangief were in Crusade, i would definitively enjoy a less combo oriented Zangief, but i can't deny that he would absolutely add to the roster with an archetype of fighter not present in the game yet.

Regardless of how i feel about Zangief as a character, I support in the same way i support characters like Daisy, Corrin, squirtle and other less popular choices.
Even if Zero or King K. Rool have more chances, my vote might just put the character in the dev team's radar.

Those other "More deserving ones" will get their votes regardless of whether or not you also support these characters, so i would suggest actually showing support to both popular and less popular ones.
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lordvaati
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:00 pm

Lego Shaq wrote:
lordvaati wrote:
*imagines trying to do a 360 motion in a Smash Bros game*

*cries silently*
Quality feedback

Seriously, I worked hard on this. I don't want to be a party pooper but I'd appreciate even a "Support!" after that.

nah, I mean it's cool and all(and let's face it after the Dedede nerf another character filling the Grappler void would be cool) but the thing with the SF characters is that they also have their traditional commands put in the games as perks(and Crusade also adds EX and cancels) and even if they had the Negative space Zangief would be murder to try and translate all that to in a Smash game.

On a side note I'm surprised Banishing Flat isn't one of his specials, as that's one of his best approaching tools and moves for countering projectiles. And yeah like others said, mayybe the "other" Capcom franchise in crusade should get a 2nd character before SF gets a 4th...?
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Lego Shaq



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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:10 pm

lordvaati wrote:
Lego Shaq wrote:
lordvaati wrote:
*imagines trying to do a 360 motion in a Smash Bros game*

*cries silently*
Quality feedback

Seriously, I worked hard on this. I don't want to be a party pooper but I'd appreciate even a "Support!" after that.

nah, I mean it's cool and all(and let's face it after the Dedede nerf another character filling the Grappler void would be cool) but the thing with the SF characters is that they also have their traditional commands put in the games as perks(and Crusade also adds EX and cancels) and even if they had the Negative space Zangief would be murder to try and translate all that to in a Smash game.

On a side note I'm surprised Banishing Flat isn't one of his specials, as that's one of his best approaching tools and moves for countering projectiles. And yeah like others said, mayybe the "other" Capcom franchise in crusade should get a 2nd character before SF gets a 4th...?
...Banishing Flat is one of his specials, it's his secondary Down Special. Also, having those complex inputs is not a neccessity, and does not have to be implemented for each move. We could easily just put in the traditional commands for one move and not the other. Also, not only can Zangief and another Megaman rep easily co-exist together, but looking at a character with, as I put it, "this guy needs to be in first" goggles won't really help you much, especially with 3rd party series.

Thanks for the feedback, though I don't agree with it, it's always good to have feedback.

And @Athorment, thank you! You put that into words better then I did.
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Naughty Ottsel
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:39 am

Athorment wrote:
I don't share that opinion. Green man with distinctive hair vs Giant over-muscley man with distinctive (chest) hair? sound about the same to me.
Also, Electricity "gimmick" is underwhelming... we already got Pikachu who does that.
Ultimately, Blanka doesn't do much and isn't representative enough beyond being Ono's favorite character (which is irrelevant in crusade terms of getting in)

I wasn't saying I want Blanka in, or that his electricity aspect is a solid argument for him getting in over Zangief. In fact, I agree with you on the Pikachu point. As far as visual distinctiveness, though, I think it's fairly subjective.

Athorment wrote:
The thing is... We are discussing zangief here. We can all agree to that, right? If people want a mega man rep then they should go make a post/Show their support on the corresponding character thread. They can make all the noise they want there.

Point conceded.

Athorment wrote:
Uh... isn't that the point though? That the most supported characters get in? If more people vote for Zangief, wouldn't that mean that he deserved the spot over Zero? I could say that "X character is more deserving!", but people's votes will determine that.

Not to mention that Zero can still make it in beside Zangief if he gets enough support on his own thread. The Dev team is not going to go "Final character! uh... Zangief!" and call it a day. There are many more slots pending to be filled (which aren't even set on stone too)

What I'm saying is that, if sheer number of votes is the primary deciding factor for the Devs (hypothetically), then supporting a character based on the merit of the moveset, rather than whether you want to see that character in the game, could result in helping a character get in that wasn't your first choice, even if you support both the one with the good moveset and the one you want more. I suppose I shouldn't have said anything if I didn't support, rather than say why, so that is my bad.

Athorment wrote:
That's a valid way of seeing it, but support (to me) is about saying that you would totally play/enjoy seeing this character in crusade. If Zangief were in Crusade, i would definitively enjoy a less combo oriented Zangief, but i can't deny that he would absolutely add to the roster with an archetype of fighter not present in the game yet.

Regardless of how i feel about Zangief as a character, I support in the same way i support characters like Daisy, Corrin, squirtle and other less popular choices.
Even if Zero or King K. Rool have more chances, my vote might just put the character in the dev team's radar.

Those other "More deserving ones" will get their votes regardless of whether or not you also support these characters, so i would suggest actually showing support to both popular and less popular ones.

I'm working off the assumption that the devs can only fit so many characters on a roster screen. Also, if I don't want the character, regardless of their popularity or lack thereof, why should I support them? And, if this isn't how you would want Zangief to play if he were in Crusade, even if he adds a unique playstyle, then why give support?

Lego Shaq wrote:
If that's not sarcasm; That's not Megaman. If it is sarcasm; Gud one

Dustination wrote:
This is prime evidence of how dead Mega Man actually is

Edit: Unless you were joking, in which case, you got me

Come again? Red Ash, sure. It's two degrees away from Mega Man, but Mighty No. 9? The game being headed by the main man behind classic Mega Man? The game with the most Mega Man-esque gameplay, setting, and characters of any game for years (that wasn't a re-released Mega Man game) I'm genuinely baffled as to why you wou'dn't say that a spiritual successor like Mighty No. 9 isn't, for all intents and purposes, a new Mega Man.
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:04 am

Mighty No. 9 is not Mega Man, no matter how much you want it to be. MN9 is being made because Mega Man is dead. That's like if Nintendo suddenly stopped making Mario games, and Miyamoto opened up a kickstarter for Magnificent Carpenter Cousins. It's not Mario. 

Yooka Laylee isn't Banjo-Kazooie, either.
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Slissith



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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:13 am

Saying megaman isn't dead because of N9 is like saying dinosaurs are not extinct because birds exist.

_________________
Cobra Bubbles wrote:
Your expectations were too simple and downright stupid.
I mean really? "No character will have their testicles hang out"?
Thanks to you, I had to add two new rules.

VultureDuck wrote:
Crusade is a man's game

Jaklub wrote:
Post count ain't gonna raise itself.

Jaklub wrote:
this count down won't be uploaded to youtube, better enjoy it now.

Lego_Shaq wrote:
please dont think im actually racist

SmashBros._L0ver wrote:
fuck you slissith go to hell Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
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Naughty Ottsel
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:43 am

Dustination wrote:
Mighty No. 9 is not Mega Man, no matter how much you want it to be. MN9 is being made because Mega Man is dead. That's like if Nintendo suddenly stopped making Mario games, and Miyamoto opened up a kickstarter for Magnificent Carpenter Cousins. It's not Mario. 

Yooka Laylee isn't Banjo-Kazooie, either.

Obviously, it isn't literally Mega Man. But it's got the spirit of Mega Man, the feel, the gameplay. Same with Yooka-Laylee. That's the whole point of spiritual successors. Taking the core of an old game and making a new game out of it, one that's the same kind of experience as the old one. It's Mega Man in all but title (sort of the opposite of Legends, so yeah, Red Ash was a bad example. Still uber-hyped for it).

Yooka-Laylee may not technically be a Banjo-Kazooie game, but when you've got the main crew from Rare, plus Grant Kirkhope, working on a game with the same concept, heart, and feel of Banjo-Kazooie, in the same conditions that they worked on Banjo-Kazooie in, with the sole intention of recreating the feel of Banjo-Kazooie in a new game, then, for all intents and purposes, that game is Banjo-Kazooie, just under a different name.
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:13 am

If you want to say that Mega Man died and was reincarnated as MN9, fine. That doesn't mean Mega Man, as a franchise, is still alive. The entire conception of Yooka Laylee and Mighty Number Nine is riding on the fact that their inspirations have died.

You also skipped over Sliss' analogy which pretty much hit the nail on the head.

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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:32 am

Considering Mega Man Legacy Collection just recently came out (and is still coming to 3DS with a special gold amiibo), I wouldn't say the franchise is dead yet. Of course, Capcom is focusing more on Street Fighter than anything else, so it's probably its core franchise. Either that or Resident Evil, with Mega Man, Monster Hunter, and Ace Attorney being the remaining still-relevent franchises.

Regardless, this topic is about Zangief. His standing shouldn't have much of an impact on other characters like Zero - I really doubt there will be a conflict deciding between Zero and Zangief...
(Actually, is Zero even a viable pick at the moment? X is the leading 'second' rep right now. Alt characters count, apparently, since Evil Ryu is part of the Street Fighter tally)
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Lego Shaq



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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:34 am

Ugh. Missed some discourse here.

Ottsel, please don't do this in this thread, we don't need this. Spiritual successor does not equal new game, and Sliss's analogy is correct. And it's not like Mighty Number 9's a good game lol

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SP



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PostSubject: Re: Zangief (Street Fighter) Discussion: I am the RED CYCLONE!   Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:00 am

Down tilt and crouch attack are the same move, right?
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