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 Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)

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Which Final Smash?
Summon Smash
9%
 9% [ 1 ]
Combo Smash
55%
 55% [ 6 ]
Transformation Smash
27%
 27% [ 3 ]
Blast Smash
9%
 9% [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 11
 

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DestinyIntwined
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:31 pm

Commas, commas are good, also what?
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:48 pm

he said "thank you"
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:26 am

okay, your welcome! Also new life meter, I don't like it
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:33 am

I can give you the 25 if you'd like that more

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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:35 am

I've changed my mind this is the best one ever!
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:32 pm

I'm not a huge fan of the KH games, but Sora is a very recognizable character and would fit right into Smash. Not to mention the fact how requested he is.

Support.
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:01 am

Boop, a bump
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:04 pm

I've updated a few things including a Final Smash has been chosen
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:45 am

Edited, added more descriptions and delayed hit boxes, and stronger variations to moves
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:30 pm

Sure why not, Support!
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Mon May 16, 2016 9:51 pm

Support x1000
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:31 pm

Updated supporters, as well as tweaked the Final Smash into a more Final version of itself
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:28 pm

The fact that Cloud made it into SSB4 and not Sora still saddens me. He's tied with Rayman as my most wanted 3rd-party character. Count me in for support.
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:28 pm

Bump, Gimmick added
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:44 pm

Cool gimmick but could easily be overpowered. Perhaps a Level Cap and reset on KO.
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:43 am

Perhaps you could include some of the keyblade transforming stuff from the KH3 gameplay we've seen?

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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:06 pm

Level cap added as well as changed up special to Ragnarok
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:15 am

I love Kingdom Hearts, I really do. And I want to see this succeed.

Now, I do have some notes on the moveset provided. And this is just a personal thing. I'd like to see all smashes use magic and all specials use abilities. I think it's a good distinction. I hate that two of the specials provided are basically just a lot of keyblade hits, though.

So if this were me, and I'm not saying you have to change anything just yet, I'd move explosion (down smash) to the down special slot. So what do you put in the now empty down smash? I would use a magic command called Ice Barrage.



While the GIF shows Aqua using it, Sora also learns this attack in Dream Drop Distance. It also fills the Fire/Lightning/Ice elemental attacks. Of course this would be scaled down to a more Smash appropriate level, I'm sure you get my point here.


For your up special, I'd like to add that the burst of projectiles should fling Sora backwards a little bit. It makes the player choose between using it for damage or using it for recovery.


I'm not a huge fan of the taunt. I'd just use the victory animation. It sounds weird, but Cloud in Smash 4 basically does the same thing.


I'm not a huge fan of the gimmick. Especially not with 50 hits needed for a level up. And especially not with only one of those things being done every time. It's honestly a lot to keep track of.

MY suggestion for a gimmick (if you really need one) is something similar to the ARMS topic. Sora would choose a keyblade to begin with and that would alter his attacks. Kingdom Key is the all around attacker, dealing with physical hits and magic hits equally. Oathkeeper would up the damage and knockback of your smashes (If you choose to make them all magic) but lower the damage of your specials. Oblivion would up the damage of your specials but lower the damage of your smashes.


I'd love to say to incorporate flowmotion in this set somewhere, but apparently we try to avoid copying SSF2 here. If it were me, though, I'd use it as the up special replacing Ragnarok completely. Sora would propel himself diagonally upwards. If he runs into a wall, he'll stick to it and have an option to use his up special again. This time though, you can choose a direction you want to go. If you collide with an enemy during flowmotion, you'll do this little number in this GIF.





You're missing back throw. I like the idea that the throws are the best of all worlds. You have a magic, you have an ability, you even have a command style! So why not make his back throw one of his form changes? Sora would toss his opponent backwards, change into Wisdom form, and fire a couple of the projectiles.

Or if you really want to, make ALL of his throws form changes. Up could be Valor form with a few attacks, Forward could be Master form with a few attacks, Down could be Antiform with a few attacks. Play around with the idea, see what you come up with.


If you change all throws to form changes, I think his Final Smash should change to Trinity Limit.


I'm not sure how I feel about neutral air being three separate attacks. It's certainly something I've never seen before. I'm not entirely saying it's a bad thing, but I feel like it locks your actions up while you're waiting for the animation to play. Maybe his neutral air would freeze him in place for a small time?


Your descriptions of attacks look like you just copy/pasted them from some wiki. While some of them are okay, some moves just don't sound right. One of the biggest examples is your down air. Aerial Dive sounds like Sora dives downward, like a Sonic/Sheik/Greninja. The description just says "Unleashes powerful air attack on distant targets". Wait, so is it not a dive downward? Does this down air have long range? It says it damages distant targets. If it's short range, does that mean Sora just teleports to an opponent? I strongly urge either video example of moves, or just better descriptions.





All isn't gloom and doom though. I have a few good points, too.


I REALLY like the gravity spell. If you make every throw a form change, it'll be something I really miss. I think you picked a nice number for percentage damage, too.


I REALLY like the idea of spells being on smashes. If you change the down smash, it'll fit the three main elements perfectly and I'll love it even more.


Strike Raid and Sonic Blade are okay. They're kind of the standard abilities for Sora and deserve those spots I think.





Please, if you disagree with anything I've mentioned we can talk about it further. These are just ideas and you don't have to accept them. You may even get me to see your point of view on some of these topics.
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:25 am

Thanks for the ideas!

All attacks now have animations explaining them (that I could find)

Up Aerial is now Fire Surge rather than Upper Slash again

New Back throw (Wisdom Form)

Down Special is now Deep Freeze/Glacier/Ice Barrage (I did in fact play BBS)

Ragnarok pushes Sora back now


Now something to talk about, I know you like flowmotion, I do too, but it doesn't fit in with the move set. I set it up to mostly be Attacks and abilities for aerials and neutrals, magic for smashes (Kinda forgot Ice Barrage was a thing so I used explosion), and Special attacks for specials. So, I won't be changing the specials I have now, but thanks for the ideas!

Also the gimmick with the keyblade would really be too much work for one character, I honestly think the leveling system is a far better gimmick than a keyblade selection, plus Sora's main keyblade is the Kingdom Key, not Ultima Weapon, or Oathkeeper, or any other blade.
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:24 am

DestinyIntwined wrote:

Now something to talk about, I know you like flowmotion, I do too, but it doesn't fit in with the move set. I set it up to mostly be Attacks and abilities for aerials and neutrals, magic for smashes (Kinda forgot Ice Barrage was a thing so I used explosion), and Special attacks for specials. So, I won't be changing the specials I have now, but thanks for the ideas!

That's a shame, because I see it completely differently. Flowmotion and Explosion ARE abilities Sora gets. I feel like with the current special moves, it's very KH1-esque. Even you yourself had mentioned wanting this to be a "Sora over the years" feel, and I think including Flowmotion somewhere in the set does just that.

If you're really adamant about not changing your specials still, I'd suggest removing the command style throw in favor of a Flowmotion move. You ARE removing a unique variation from Sora's set, but command styles are something that Sora himself hasn't used. And while that's not saying Sora shouldn't be able to represent BBS, the attack chosen kind of just looks like he's using a Thunder spell with no enhancements.



DestinyIntwined wrote:

Also the gimmick with the keyblade would really be too much work for one character, I honestly think the leveling system is a far better gimmick than a keyblade selection, plus Sora's main keyblade is the Kingdom Key, not Ultima Weapon, or Oathkeeper, or any other blade.

My fundamental problem with the leveling gimmick is that while it seems cool, it also looks a little convoluted. Yes, it's something Sora does in the game. But there's plenty of RPG characters who were added that don't have this sort of level up ability. Ness, Lucas, Marth, Geno, every Pokemon, even Mario/Luigi/Sonic to an extent. Why does Sora get this level up thing?

I think Sora can do without the level up gimmick. He already has a bit much going for him, and I think his gimmick should stop at "Swordsman with spells tied to smashes", it's already a very unique thing on its own and opens up his special moves to be a slew of abilities. That's not even saying "Replace level ups with alternate keyblades", I'm just saying remove the gimmick entirely.

Side note while we're talking about smashes, I think Thunder should have the little "cloud" thing removed. I'm pretty sure Thunder spells just sort of appear.

I want to compare Sora to Robin right now, both being "magic swordsmen". Where being just a magical swordsman may not sound so unique because Robin exists (though not in Crusade), Sora really sets himself apart with his smashes. Robin mostly gets a bunch of empowered slashes. But Sora? Sora gets access to a full arsenal of all the offensive spells and STILL gets to have his offensive abilities on top of that. While his spells may not have as much range as Robin's, I think they would all pack quite a punch. And on top of that all, Sora gets to stay mobile with Sonic Blade and the ability to GLIDE.




I support, by the way. Adding blizzard to the smashes was the push I needed, even if I may not particularly agree with other areas of the moveset.
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:32 am

So I think that I can get a compromise, so in BBS they have the three spell command styles (Fire, Blizzard, Thunder) so the gimmick, rather than being a level up system being a command style system. But you also bring up a point with the without the gimmick thing as with the whole movement and prowess without getting rid of spells. So I'm not certain if you'd rather like command styles to be in the move set or a gimmick. Whatever you'd like I'd add.
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:55 am

DestinyIntwined wrote:
So I think that I can get a compromise, so in BBS they have the three spell command styles (Fire, Blizzard, Thunder) so the gimmick, rather than being a level up system being a command style system. But you also bring up a point with the without the gimmick thing as with the whole movement and prowess without getting rid of spells. So I'm not certain if you'd rather like command styles to be in the move set or a gimmick. Whatever you'd like I'd add.

You might have to elaborate further on command styles. How would they activate? Is it a form change like in BBS? Does it change up Sora's moveset on the fly?

Command Styles aren't something that Sora does, and seemingly basing his character around the idea is a bit silly. Once again, that's not to say Sora shouldn't use anything like it in his Smash form. Ness uses spells he can't learn, afterall. But with a moveset as diverse as Sora's, I don't think he really needs to rely on command styles so heavily.






And a random funny idea, I think like one out of every hundred times Sora respawns, you hear Donald yell "SORA!!" and the cure graphic appears around you. Donald being late on his heals, yet again.
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:19 pm

Like BBS there's a meter on the bottom that grows with each attack, it tracks whether Sora has made more fire, thunder, or blizzard attacks. Like BBS it changes moves on the fly. I'm not sure it's a good idea, as it doesn't fit with Sora.
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:24 am

put me down for support. it is a testament to how fitting of an addition sora would be that this thread is two pages of extensive, constructive discussion. it just works, it translates perfectly to smash.

although i love KH2FM's gameplay to death obviously i'm not big enough of a fan to add anything more of value to the thread

one thing though. while i like the idea of the elemental spells being mitigated to smash attacks it's sort of disappointing to see that you left out reflect. it's such a crucial part of kh2 that it'd kinda feel naked to control sora without it. is it because counter moves are way overdone in smash?
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PostSubject: Re: Sora (Kingdom Hearts) Discussion: Re:Gimmick (WIP)   Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:51 am

deepstate wrote:
one thing though. while i like the idea of the elemental spells being mitigated to smash attacks it's sort of disappointing to see that you left out reflect. it's such a crucial part of kh2 that it'd kinda feel naked to control sora without it. is it because counter moves are way overdone in smash?


That's pretty much my thoughts on the matter. I try to avoid counter moves if I can. Sora's moveset is just so large, it's hard to fit in absolutely everything in some way or another.

Though I'm very interested in hearing about your thoughts on a moveset. It's not entirely out of the question that specials could go to magic instead if that's the route you wanted to take.

If adding in reflect, I'd go for a countering smash. Down smash would charge his reflect spell. If you manage to use it before your opponent hits you, you'll do varying degrees of damage reflection with the resulting explosion.

Reflect = <49% charged, only reflects 50% damage back
Reflera = >50% & <99%, reflects 100% of damage back
Reflega = 100% charge, reflects 150% of damage back

Failure to receive damage during this smash results in Sora being vulnerable for a LONG time, so you can't throw it out lightly. I'd give the charges for all the smashes the exact same frame so you can kind of fake your opponent out. "You thought I was going for a Thundaga? THINK AGAIN!"



My problem with having Reflect on a smash, of course, remains that we have to remove a part of the Fire/Thunder/Blizzard trio. But I'm willing to give that up if it seems like better ideas come around.
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