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 Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!

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eris27100
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PostSubject: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:25 pm

Why Mog/Moogle: The reason I decided that Mog should represent Final Fantasy is because the species since Final Fantasy 3 (Japan) and was planned as early as FF2.

Pro: Very Recognizable
Pro: Started on Nintendo systems (I'm aware that's no longer a rule but still)
Pro: Many Possible movesets
Con: Cloud and Terra are extremely requested
Con: Not always known for fighting
(These are just some of the Pros and Cons that came to my mind)
So Again if there is ANY way you can help improve the moveset please tell me I want this to be the best possible moveset and any help is awesome (EX. help with %'s)

Also for clarification I refer to the character as Mog because most Moogles are named Mog hell ALL Moogles are called Mog in FF7 so that's just what I called him but that by no means implies that Mog has to be the character name I am perfectly fine have the character named Moogle

So here is the moveset

Moveset and Such:
 

And here are some Pallets that are just suggestions using a sprite I had on my Computer

Pallets:
 


Last edited by eris27100 on Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:24 pm; edited 6 times in total (Reason for editing : Remade the page)
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:05 am

Mog is actually a great choice as a character, but I'm not sold on the moveset at all. The presentation of the OP is also lacking in a variety of ways, including images, video, character background, why he deserves to be in smash, etc.

I'll come back with moveset ideas another time

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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:05 am

I'm sorry, but if a Final Fantasy 6 character has to be a playable, then it has to be the main protagonist, who is Terra Branford. So no support from me.
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:28 am

Final Fantasy really has two series mascots; Chocobos and Moogles. Moogles arguably more-so. I think having the series mascot can be a good idea if implemented well, don't think of it as an FF6 character because it's really about the mascot moogle. The only reason FF6 is even mentioned in particular is because that's the game where Mog was playable, but the moogle is a series-wide phenomenon.

My main problem with the moveset is honestly the reliance on other characters' abilities. If you're looking outside Mog's own ability set for more filler, look at other Moogles from the series or what they are known to be capable of as a race. The random chocobo summon is also fairly out of place.

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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:14 am

Eh, I think that the Moogles' status as a series mascot is more of a stretch, because Square Enix only portrayed the Chocobos as anything even CLOSE to mascot status, while the Moogles just happened to reappear in games. After all, it was the Chocobo who got its own spin-off game and not the Moogle.
Anyway, this is what I think would be the perfect Final Fantasy character selection for the Smash roster that is true to how Sakurai selects characters for Smash:
*Terra Branford
->Final Fantasy 6 debuted on a Nintendo console AND was released in overseas
->Terra is the main protagonist in Final Fantasy 6 and a big plot point due to her Esper roots
->Terra is more unique than the Hero class protagonists from previous FF games, again because of her Esper roots (hence why Robin was chosen over Chrom in SM4SH)
*Chocobo
->Chocobo is essentially to Final Fantasy what is a combination of Pikachu and Yoshi
->Like Yoshi with Yoshi's Island, Chocobo starred in its own spin-off games
->Like Yoshi in the regular Mario games, Chocobo is a recurring Final Fantasy helper

After those two, I still think that more main protagonists from Final Fantasy games (and Square Enix games in general) need to become playable before the Moogle does.
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JacobDaGun
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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:45 pm

While novel, it's a bit of an odd choice, even considering that Moogles are quite popular Final Fantasy characters. The moveset is a bit...well, lackluster. If this was going to work at all, I feel that the moveset would need a bit of work. Giving him an extra jump or two wouldn't be out of place considering his wings, and changing the Up Special/Recovery to Jump rather than Holy would make a lot more sense.

Overall, this guy could prove interesting, and there's some potential...but I won't be supporting this now. Perhaps in the future I will, but for now, I'll be looking for other representatives.
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Lego Shaq



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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:47 pm

TrinitroMan wrote:
I'm sorry, but if a Final Fantasy 6 character has to be a playable, then it has to be the main protagonist, who is Terra Branford. So no support from me.
It's funny because Moogles are far more major then Terra, and Cloud would be in before Terra.

Anyways, I'm definitely considering supporting, but I think it should be just a Moogle instead of Mog.
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:14 pm

"Mog" does not necessarily mean FF VI Mog, if you're trying to get away from that.  Mog is the most common moogle name in the series.  Mog also exists in FF7, where it was what all Moogles were called, though in the Compilation of FF7, they are called moogles instead.  Additionally however, Mog was the protagonist moogle in a mini-game within FF7, and not a very hidden mini-game, it's right on display with the rest of them in the Gold Saucer, one of the most memorable locales of the entire game.  In FF8, Mog is both a summon and an available card in the card game (ongoing mini-game throughout FF8, highly popular among FF fans).  Mog also plays a significant role in FF9 as Eiko's guardian / pet, and is distinctively set apart in appearance and story significance from other moogles of the game.  A Mog also plays a significant role in FF13-2 and FF13-3.  Other appearances include FF14, Type-0, Record Keeper, the FF Trading Card Game, the Chocobo series, Chrystal Chronicles 1&2, Mobius, and even Kingdom Hearts.  And all of that is just important moogles named "Mog", that's not even getting into the myriad of other important roles held and the overall status of moogles throughout the entirety of the series.

Moogles have appeared in almost as many games as Chocobos, debuting one game later and only missing one game in the series beyond that, and have also appeared in close to as many completely unrelated games (such as Dota 2).  It can't be denied that Chocobos have a few more appearances and are arguably more so the mascot, however it would be extremely easy to argue that "Mog" or "Moogle" has far more moveset potential.  I've made a Chocobo moveset before, it does not take long to run out of things Chocobos can do.  Mog on the other hand has access to loads of FF abilities, especially if you take the approach of the series-wide Mog rather than specifically FF6, as one would be doing with the Chocobo.  Mog is also primarily a support character, whose role in actual battles if any has generally been as a white mage (if a playable character) or as a summon who gives some kind of beneficial buff to the party.  Smash has certainly never had a full on support mage archetype before, but Mog goes beyond that with access to offensive magic as well as an interesting and unique physical archetype, akin to a fairy or something in that he's small, constantly flying and would of course have multiple jumps.  Combine these factors and you have practically the epitome of uniqueness, all while being very nearly the series mascot.

This is not to say I am fully behind Mog as the sole rep, but I do think that the candidate is viable beyond any shred of a doubt and I could easily understand anyone who did stand behind him as such. I just think the moveset needs a complete overhaul and we should probably drop the "FF6" association.

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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:58 pm

Lego Shaq wrote:
Cloud would be in before Terra.
No. No, he wouldn't. I already listed the reasons why Terra would be in before Cloud (or any other Final Fantasy protagonist).
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Lego Shaq



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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:14 pm

TrinitroMan wrote:
Lego Shaq wrote:
Cloud would be in before Terra.
No. No, he wouldn't. I already listed the reasons why Terra would be in before Cloud (or any other Final Fantasy protagonist).
So you're a bit biased? Give other FF reps a chance.
I'm not sure how 3 reasons make her more likely
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:33 pm

I'm not biased. Did you even READ the reasons I listed or did you just ignored them because you're a bit biased towards Cloud's inclusion? Let's see:
*Cloud has zero Nintendo relevance
*Cloud is yet ANOTHER sword-user, and when we include Nintendo's more important swordfighters, then Cloud would be one too many
*Cloud's Limit Break gimmick is one of the less unique gimmicks
It's not looking very good for him.
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eris27100
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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:55 pm

Also Im going to say that I am working on a completely revamped moveset based on all the FF appearances of Moogles not just FF6 Though I still will refer to him as Mog as while researching I found out around half the moogle populous is named Mog
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Lego Shaq



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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:31 pm

TrinitroMan wrote:
I'm not biased. Did you even READ the reasons I listed or did you just ignored them because you're a bit biased towards Cloud's inclusion? Let's see:
*Cloud has zero Nintendo relevance
*Cloud is yet ANOTHER sword-user, and when we include Nintendo's more important swordfighters, then Cloud would be one too many
*Cloud's Limit Break gimmick is one of the less unique gimmicks
It's not looking very good for him.
Lmao...You should realize I've literally never played more then 20 minutes of an FF game. No bias here.

1. And? Final Fantasy as a series has Nintendo relevance, and that rule no longer exists; any videogame characters fair game.
2. We have, if I'm correct, FOUR swordfighters. FOUR, out of the over fifty characters.
3. ?? I'm sure there's another gimmick he can have.

It's looking even worse for Terra.

Also, Terra doesn't even HAVE a gimmick, she just uses magic.  I also saw how FF6 is your favorite FF game; sure you're not biased?

Cloud has more popularity, definitely more well known, is easily the most voted Square rep alongside Sora for Smash... Cloud also has many Crusade supporters, more then Terra's 4.

Lastly, Cloud is far more relevant then Terra. May I remind you his game's getting a remake?


Last edited by Lego Shaq on Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:37 pm

Cloud has Nintendo relevence. Chain of Memories and Theatrhythm.

And we currently have 6 swordfighters (And we're going to get more - I think it's safe to assume Pit and 2 more Fire Emblem swordsman, maybe Shulk. Does Layton count?). Not a big deal if each is unique though...



I'm going to wait to see the generalized Moogle moveset before commenting on that specifically.
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:42 pm

Wait, those games have Cloud in it AND are on a Nintendo console? Okay, this will change things up a bit.
But yeah, Roy is right, we currently have 6 sword fighters, with even more sword fighters to come. So yeah, Cloud would be just another sword fighter, while Terra would be a magic user, something that is NOT overused in a Smash game yet.
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Lego Shaq



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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:47 pm

TrinitroMan wrote:
Wait, those games have Cloud in it AND are on a Nintendo console? Okay, this will change things up a bit.
But yeah, Roy is right, we currently have 6 sword fighters, with even more sword fighters to come. So yeah, Cloud would be just another sword fighter, while Terra would be a magic user, something that is NOT overused in a Smash game yet.
You completely ignored my other points.

Terra has no gimmick. Just a magic user with projectiles.
What is the deal with swordfighters? There's nothing wrong with having another swordfighter.
Nothing at all says that Cloud would be "another swordfighter". He has more uniqueness and a gimmick then Terra does.

And this isn't a Smash game. It's a Smash fangame that has nearly none of the same "rules" as the official ones.
Cloud beats out Terra in nearly every aspect. Popularity, relevance, legacy..
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:37 pm

Uh, there IS something wrong with having another sword fighter, and that is having another sword fighter.
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:36 pm

Why is it that you lump together swordfighters as if they're all the same?  You do realize if we lumped together martial fighters (kick/punch), they would probably outnumber swordsmen by 3/1 or more right?

And yes, Cloud does have Nintendo relevance.  Your assertion about his uniqueness is also severely biased.  I think his gimmick is quite good.  In addition, the bravery gimmick could be used if we wanted, coming from Dissidia which is on my Warrior of Light moveset, probably within the moveset post linked in my sig.

You also assume that Cloud is "just another swordsfighter", which tells me you know little to nothing about him.  Cloud is a spellblade.  He has access to magic, summons, among other cool abilities such as his limit breaks.  Not to mention his actual style of sword fighting is unlike any other in smash.  Have you even read the proposed Cloud moveset?

*Disclaimer* this is not me supporting Cloud as an FF rep.

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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:58 pm

Yeah, Cloud is a sword fighter who can use magic, but so is Isaac from Golden Sun as well, and I'm pretty sure that Isaac would be playable in Smash before Cloud. Your point?
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:23 pm

My point is that you made a case that a con against Cloud was being a generic swordsfighter like any other, and i proved that wrong. Now you bring up Isaac as if that has any relevance whatsoever to my point, especially when Isaac is in no way confirmed for this game. Is your point now that Cloud is too much like Isaac, and we have too many "just another Isaac" characters? Now you're just fishing for any bias reason you can find.

Assuming Isaac were to get in the game and Cloud were up for getting in afterward. So what? Isaac and Cloud are not the same. Not even close. In fact, by your own logic Isaac is not a viable candidate for Smash because Robin exists. In fact, almost every single thread in this board is not viable. Kicks and punches? Sorry, we have Mario. Guns? Sorry, we have spacies/ZSS/Mach rider. The list goes on. Your points on sword fighters have no validity, nor do any of your reasons against Cloud thus far.

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Lego Shaq



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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:28 pm

TrinitroMan wrote:
Yeah, Cloud is a sword fighter who can use magic, but so is Isaac from Golden Sun as well, and I'm pretty sure that Isaac would be playable in Smash before Cloud. Your point?
What is with you and only acknowldging one point so you can act like you're right?

Perfect Hell wrote:
My point is that you made a case that a con against Cloud was being a generic swordsfighter like any other, and i proved that wrong.  Now you bring up Isaac as if that has any relevance whatsoever to my point, especially when Isaac is in no way confirmed for this game.  Is your point now that Cloud is too much like Isaac, and we have too many "just another Isaac" characters?  Now you're just fishing for any bias reason you can find.

Assuming Isaac were to get in the game and Cloud were up for getting in afterward.  So what?  Isaac and Cloud are not the same.  Not even close.  In fact, by your own logic Isaac is not a viable candidate for Smash because Robin exists.  In fact, almost every single thread in this board is not viable.  Kicks and punches?  Sorry, we have Mario.  Guns?  Sorry, we have spacies/ZSS/Mach rider.  The list goes on.  Your points on sword fighters have no validity, nor do any of your reasons against Cloud thus far.
Basically this. And just because Isaac would most likely be in before Cloud in REGULAR SMASH doesn't mean CRUSADE.
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TaXMaN
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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:10 pm

TrinitroMan wrote:
Uh, there IS something wrong with having another sword fighter, and that is having another sword fighter.

And yet you want Roy, another sword fighter, to be playable. I'm pretty sure Cloud will make a much more unique character than Roy.
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eris27100
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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:21 pm

TrinitroMan wrote:
Eh, I think that the Moogles' status as a series mascot is more of a stretch, because Square Enix only portrayed the Chocobos as anything even CLOSE to mascot status, while the Moogles just happened to reappear in games. After all, it was the Chocobo who got its own spin-off game and not the Moogle.
To be fair a moogle costars in most of the chocobo spin-offs
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:30 pm

Lego Shaq wrote:
And just because Isaac would most likely be in before Cloud in REGULAR SMASH doesn't mean CRUSADE.
Oh, so you guys want to go against rhyme or reason ON PURPOSE?! What the hell is wrong with you guys?!
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Dustination



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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:12 am

Once again TrinitroMan ignores all arguments against him and sways the conversation in another direction, what a surprise

This topic is about Moogle. If you want to go make a "Here's my OPINION about which Final Fantasy characters may or may not be included" topic you can go do so but stop shitting up other threads, thank you.

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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:12 am

Dustination wrote:
Once again TrinitroMan ignores all arguments against him and sways the conversation in another direction, what a surprise

This topic is about Moogle. If you want to go make a "Here's my OPINION about which Final Fantasy characters may or may not be included" topic you can go do so but stop shitting up other threads, thank you.


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PostSubject: Re: Mog (Final Fantasy) Discussion: Kupo!   Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:45 am

Oh dang TrinitroMan got rekt. Rip dreams of Terra for you.
Mog (er... moogle) is adorable and I'm in 100% support of any adorable character. Especially when he's as deadly as this. Kupo Kupo motherf**ker.
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