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Dustination

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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:42 pm

TrinitroMan wrote:
So you were accused of stealing due to Casino Night Zone. So what? Thus who accused you guys were either SSF2 dickriders or were just plain imbecile, because Casino Night Zone IS popular, so it's only natural, if two Smash fangames end up having Casino Night Zone.
And like I said, I'm open to suggestion as to how I could possibly change up Dracula's Castle some more, so it wont be just a reuse of the Project M/SSF2 version anymore.

It's "so what" to you because you don't have to consider the repercussions of adding something in.

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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:09 pm

Ok, now it seems risky to have Drac's Castle in.
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:18 pm

Dustination wrote:
It's "so what" to you because you don't have to consider the repercussions of adding something in.
Uhm...no. It's "so what" to me, because I never listen to dumb people. And so shouldn't you guys.
"Wah wah, Crusade-baka stole this, Crusade-baka stole that, wah wah wah."
Seriously, listening to comments like this is just unhealthy for the game development.
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:40 pm

I don't think the issue is 'Dracula's Castle'. I mean, that's like saying we shouldn't have Green Hill Zone. It's the most iconic location for a Castlevania stage.

The issue is the layout, which we've already said to change it. I feel like something maze-ish inside the castle might be more iconic, but again, I wouldn't know.
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:40 am

Actually, some people explicitly said that Dracula's Castle itself is the issue by using Casino Night Zone as an example.

Also, while something maze-like could be nice, I'm afraid that such level layout would be the complete opposite of tourney-legal... :-/
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AEM

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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:41 am

...Is that not the point as to why the "Hazard-less" variations exist?
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:59 am

No. Hazard-less versions only remove the hazards, but don't change the level layout.
At least that's hazard-less by definition.
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:17 am

If you saw "Balloon Fight" in the trailer posted not too long ago, the layout of the stage changes with "No Hazards" being swapped on. I'm certain the layout can be changed for a hazard-free version of a Maze-like stage or a large stage if they wanted to do it.
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:22 am

Uhm...Crusade is new to the trailer. However, I do clearly remember that Flatzone 3 in the trailer has a different design than in the current demo, but I don't think that is a change done by the hazard switch but actually I general level layout change.
I mean, come on: Walk-offs are not hazards.
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:29 am

TrinitroMan wrote:
Uhm...Crusade is new to the trailer. However, I do clearly remember that Flatzone 3 in the trailer has a different design than in the current demo, but I don't think that is a change done by the hazard switch but actually I general level layout change.
I mean, come on: Walk-offs are not hazards.
It was stated clearly in the trailer that Balloon Fight has a different layout without hazards. It's definitely doable.
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:45 am

But then it's not a hazard switch anymore, but an alternate stage.
What if I want to play on the original layout but without the hazards?
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:06 am

TrinitroMan wrote:
But then it's not a hazard switch anymore, but an alternate stage.
What if I want to play on the original layout but without the hazards?
Then too bad, deal with it?
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:14 am

Yeah no. If the game claims to have a hazard switch, then I expect nothing else BUT a hazard switch.
Anything else would be false advertising, and I will NOT tolerate that!
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Nohrian Sadist

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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:21 am

They've already explained how the hazard switch affects certain stages, so how is it false advertising? Also, why must you present your opinions so boldly?
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:30 am

Because that's not how hazard switches SHOULD work.
And I almost always present my points boldly, just so there is absolutely no space for misunderstanding.
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Nohrian Sadist

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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:19 pm

Who are you do decide how mechanics in a game not by you should work? I'm not saying you're wrong, just asking some questions.
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:41 pm

I'm not saying that I am the one to decide how things should work.
However, I do think that features should be true to their name.
Borderline: If the hazard-switch changes stage layouts, don't call it a hazard-switch then!
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:57 am

Okay, good news: I managed to extract all files of Castlevania Judgment, and that also includes that game's rendition of Dracula's Castle.
Now I only need to make them Blender-compatible, and after that, I can try to experiment with the assets for a more interesting a unique level layout that is still tourney-legal (so the hazard switch would really only turn off the hazards in this stage and not change and layout as well).
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:19 pm

I've been playing through SotN recently... I feel like the stage should be big and have a maze-like aspect to it. Think Great Cave Offensive in Smash U. The 'hazardless' version can simply be the top section, which is where the battle against Dracula takes place.


I also thought of a gimmick for it - like Mushroomy Kingdom, you can hold the shield button to change the form. In the case of Dracula's Castle, it inverts the stage (vertically and horizontally) and gives it a darker hue. This changes the layout drastically while still being essentially the same stage.
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:40 pm

After a while, I came up with a new idea:
What if Dracula's Castle does a Castle Siege and switches to Clock Tower mid-battle.
That way, the stage would be more interesting and still be tourney-legal when turning off hazards, and Death's appearance would make more sense then (because he usually only appears in clock towers).

So here is the idea:
The stage starts at Dracula's castle, which is basically a flat stage with 3 platforms that keep on changing formation and even tilt and candles that reveal items when broken apart, like in Castlevania.

After some while, a effect shows up to show that the scenario is changing (unsure about the effect), and you end up inside the Clock Tower.

The Clock Tower consists of one big gear in the middle as the main platform and on each side one smaller gear further away, kinda like this:
*******************************
**---**********************---**
*******************************
***********-----------***********
******************************

*=air
-=solid

The background would also scroll in order to give the illusion that you are standing on a spinning gear and that the smaller gears rotate around the big gear.
And there would be a candle on the center of each gear (all candles respawn eventually after being destroyed).
After some while, Death appears, who will attack the fighters for a certain amount of time before disappearing (you can also attack and defeat him).

After that, it's just the platforms again, until after some time, the stage changes back to Dracula's Castle. That's where it loops.

What do you guys think of that idea?
I also want to avoid making this stage maze like, because that's a SotN kind of thing, and I'm aiming for a more classic Castlevania stage, just like how the real Smash aims for the more classical version of something.
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:52 pm

TrinitroMan wrote:
After a while, I came up with a new idea:
What if Dracula's Castle does a Castle Siege and switches to Clock Tower mid-battle.
That way, the stage would be more interesting and still be tourney-legal when turning off hazards, and Death's appearance would make more sense then (because he usually only appears in clock towers).

So here is the idea:
The stage starts at Dracula's castle, which is basically a flat stage with 3 platforms that keep on changing formation and even tilt and candles that reveal items when broken apart, like in Castlevania.

After some while, a effect shows up to show that the scenario is changing (unsure about the effect), and you end up inside the Clock Tower.

The Clock Tower consists of one big gear in the middle as the main platform and on each side one smaller gear further away, kinda like this:
*******************************
**---**********************---**
*******************************
***********-----------***********
******************************

*=air
-=solid

The background would also scroll in order to give the illusion that you are standing on a spinning gear and that the smaller gears rotate around the big gear.
And there would be a candle on the center of each gear (all candles respawn eventually after being destroyed).
After some while, Death appears, who will attack the fighters for a certain amount of time before disappearing (you can also attack and defeat him).

After that, it's just the platforms again, until after some time, the stage changes back to Dracula's Castle. That's where it loops.

What do you guys think of that idea?
I also want to avoid making this stage maze like, because that's a SotN kind of thing, and I'm aiming for a more classic Castlevania stage, just like how the real Smash aims for the more classical version of something.
We've told you multiple times what the biggest reason for Clock Tower not being in is. It can be the most unique stage, but with Crusade's already rather shaky current reputation, it's not going to help if it's in 2 other Smash games.
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:39 pm

Lego Shaq wrote:
We've told you multiple times what the biggest reason for Clock Tower not being in is. It can be the most unique stage, but with Crusade's already rather shaky current reputation, it's not going to help if it's in 2 other Smash games.
What? SSF2 and Project M both have Dracula's Castle, not Clock Tower... The problem is that original part before it transforms into Clock Tower. And the issue isn't Dracula's Castle itself, it's the layout.


And I can understand aiming for a more classic Castlevania approach. However, in Sonic and Mega Man's case, the classic is actually the most popular variation, while in Castlevania, it's the 'Metroidvania'.
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:52 pm

Roy wrote:
Lego Shaq wrote:
We've told you multiple times what the biggest reason for Clock Tower not being in is. It can be the most unique stage, but with Crusade's already rather shaky current reputation, it's not going to help if it's in 2 other Smash games.
What? SSF2 and Project M both have Dracula's Castle, not Clock Tower... The problem is that original part before it transforms into Clock Tower. And the issue isn't Dracula's Castle itself, it's the layout.


And I can understand aiming for a more classic Castlevania approach. However, in Sonic and Mega Man's case, the classic is actually the most popular variation, while in Castlevania, it's the 'Metroidvania'.
Mixed up the names, my bad.

The issue is both the Castle and the layout. Just as many people think it's the stage itself as they think it's the layout.

If, as Dust said, we got attacked for having the Casino, we're going to be attacked either way for including this.
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:15 am

Ugh, seriously, I already tried to find a compromise which would make the castle stay.
And actually, no, Metroidvania is not classic. Otherwise, the Castlevania Adventures Rebirth would have been a Metroidvania, yet it isn't, because it aimed to be a MM9-esque entry in the Castlevania franchise: a nostalgia love letter.
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:50 am

I don't mind the castle staying as long as it doesn't use anything that remotely looks like the P:M layout.

I didn't say Metroidvania is classic, I said it's the more popular and well-known variation. But again, I understand going back to the classics so I don't have a problem with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:07 am

Roy wrote:
I didn't say Metroidvania is classic, I said it's the more popular and well-known variation.

They aren't not popular, but more well known? No way.
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:21 am

Okay, so I guess it's partially settled...now how to differentiate Dracula's Castle while still keeping the main two gimmicks (breakable candles and moving platforms) on a single big plane?
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:00 am

TrinitroMan wrote:
(moving platforms) on a single big plane?
This is the problem. Don't keep that. The breakable candles are fine, just not this.
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PostSubject: Re: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgment)   Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:53 am

TrinitroMan wrote:
Okay, so I guess it's partially settled...now how to differentiate Dracula's Castle while still keeping the main two gimmicks (breakable candles and moving platforms) on a single big plane?
Not really. It's still not settled.

You keep adding tons of gimmicks and how to make it different; it'd be a lot better to just make a new stage, sorry to say.
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