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Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:29 pm

Nice. The only gripes i still have are;
- Blade Beam is missing it's actual canonical gimmick of dealing extra damage the lower the users health is. This could be represented by adding a fraction of cloud's current % to the damage of the beam
- I liked the old Dsmash better, and besides having 2 smashes + an aerial for thunder but only having 2 throws for blizzard is one-sided in favor of thunder.

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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:40 pm

Perfect Hell wrote:
Nice.  The only gripes i still have are;
- Blade Beam is missing it's actual canonical gimmick of dealing extra damage the lower the users health is.  This could be represented by adding a fraction of cloud's current % to the damage of the beam
- I liked the old Dsmash better, and besides having 2 smashes + an aerial for thunder but only having 2 throws for blizzard is one-sided in favor of thunder.

I was going to implement that, but in the end it became too redundant. Cloud already would have around 100% or so when he'd get a Limit Break, so having Aura-like properties on top of that seemed a little too overkill, given that it already exceeds the other Limit Breaks in range and speed. If Aura properties were to be added on top of that, it would make the other attacks (especially Firaga) essentially pointless at typical percentages that would award Cloud a Limit Break. I didn't think it was that big of a deal to exclude, since there are other variations of Blade Beam (such as the Dissidia variation, for example) where the damage gimmick was never taken into consideration.

The other point, however, is indeed valid. I can make changes to better even out the representation. Any recommendations for attacks that could use a Blizzaga touch-up?
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Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:26 pm

Back throw and down smash already have a lot going on, so perhaps give blizzaga to forward air and up throw, with Thundaga going to down air and up smash.

The only other things i could think of to get elemental treatments are up tilt, dash attack and forward throw. All of the other attacks already feel like they have enough going on. So some evened out disbursement (2-3 attacks each) among up smash, up throw, forward air, down air, up tilt, dash attack, forward throw. I suppose any A attacks are game really, those are just the ones that seem to make sense in my head.

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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:14 pm

Perfect Hell wrote:
Back throw and down smash already have a lot going on, so perhaps give blizzaga to forward air and up throw, with Thundaga going to down air and up smash.

The only other things i could think of to get elemental treatments are up tilt, dash attack and forward throw.  All of the other attacks already feel like they have enough going on.  So some evened out disbursement (2-3 attacks each) among up smash, up throw, forward air, down air, up tilt, dash attack, forward throw.  I suppose any A attacks are game really, those are just the ones that seem to make sense in my head.

Well keep in mind, we're also trying to emulate Cloud as a whole. Think back to how he is usually portrayed while fighting; he never really supercharges the buster sword or anything, he just cuts it in half in an already flashy motion. In the same way, I don't want all of his normals to be elementally charged, just a chosen few that'll work out the most.
I like the idea of 2 electrical attacks, and 2 ice-based attacks. I could add a third to both if necessary, but if this is just for the sake of checking off references to his skillset I'm not quite sure how necessary it would be. I'm especially hesitant towards Blizzard-based attacks, as slashing an enemy and having them freeze halfway through seems sort of awkward to me. It'd be best to use it in either a controlled environment (such as a throw) or after an attack with great impact (such as a Smash attack or heavy aerial); His swifter attacks, the ones where that he uses to rack up damage, I feel shouldn't be made too flashy in terms of elemental effects.

Either way, checklist time:

Blizzard:
U-Throw
B-Throw

Thunder:
U-Smash
D-Air

Dash Attack could use Thunder on the last hit, I'd imagine, if only due to the quick nature of it. D-Smash could make another Blizzard implementation work, certainly more than it would for Thunder; I was thinking ice spikes on either side, or ice crystals jutting out from the blade's impact.


Last edited by Shiruza on Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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desu
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:57 am

Support, the side special could have different combinations of attacks depending of the keys you press too.
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Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:07 pm

I don't agree with putting an element on Dthrow, it's already cross slash.  Uthrow is good.  Perhaps only the first hit of Dsmash gets ice, that's what traps the opponent in, and then the mako explosion happens.

As for side B, in Dissidia it had a second hit that meteor'd the opponent. Perhaps its non-limit break version could do that, and maybe it could be optional. If you dont press b, it hits once and sets up combos, if you hit b the second time, he gets above the opponent and stabs them down with a powerful meteor.

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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:23 pm

Perfect Hell wrote:
I don't agree with putting an element on Dthrow, it's already cross slash.  Uthrow is good.  Perhaps only the first hit of Dsmash gets ice, that's what traps the opponent in, and then the mako explosion happens.

As for side B, in Dissidia it had a second hit that meteor'd the opponent.  Perhaps its non-limit break version could do that, and maybe it could be optional.  If you dont press b, it hits once and sets up combos, if you hit b the second time, he gets above the opponent and stabs them down with a powerful meteor.

Whoops, typo! Meant B-Throw. Thank you for alerting me of that. ^ ^;

As for the D-Smash idea, that could work. His blade coats in ice, then he slams it into the ground. Out pops the Mako explosion. I like it!

Yeah, I'm aware. I actually really like that idea, but I also like the idea of it just being an uppercut; So, I combined the two into one move! The Dissidia-esque meteor finish is the Limit Break variant of Climhazard, only with another move added beforehand (as in Dissidia the uppercut dealt rapid damage). I don't suppose the exemplary animation really gets that across though, so the finishing attack could be the same downwards thrust as that in Dissidia.
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:46 pm

So um... Cloud got confirmed for Smash U. What.
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:50 pm

HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT!
Somebody call Etika on this!
Also, update the Crusade moveset to Smash 4 standards, and I will support 1000 times!
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Lego Shaq

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:54 pm

Cloud wins. Let's announce him for crusade now.
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:57 pm

Trailer for posterity:
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Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:59 pm

Some aspects of the given moveset here could probably be incorporated into the Smash 4 one, depending on their full moveset. I didn't notice Climhazard in their trailer, nor any elemental magic or strikes, nor was the Up B Finishing Touch, instead stupidly being a generic swordsman type recovery. I think they were going for Braver there, not entirely sure. Overall he looks hype but i definitely have some reservations about a few moveset choices. We'll see.

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Lego Shaq

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:00 pm

I'm personally dissapointed about Cloud. Hope he didn't affect the Ballot characters development too majorly.
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Slissith

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:22 pm

Lego Shaq wrote:
I'm personally dissapointed about Cloud. Hope he didn't affect the Ballot characters development too majorly.

Dissapointed? Why?
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Lego Shaq

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:13 pm

Slissith wrote:
Lego Shaq wrote:
I'm personally dissapointed about Cloud. Hope he didn't affect the Ballot characters development too majorly.

Dissapointed? Why?
-I don't care for Final Fantasy that much, I respect it, but I've played like 3 of it's game. Theatrhythm is fun though
-There's so many other 3rd parties I would've liked more
-Who knows, maybe Cloud made Paper Mario or any other of my wants get cut?
-Snake is basically even more deconfirmed due to Cloud.
-Another swordsfighter.
-Another anime-styled swordsfighter.
-Who uses some of Ike's moves...
-I feel his inclusion was just really weird and I'm not sure how it can be explained by Nintendo. I say this in a "was this for a promotion or what?" kinda way.

Good side though...
+One of my best friends has wanted him for years, I'm happy for him.
+Jacket alt costume is SICK.
+Shuts up the rabid Shovel Knight supporters.
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Dustination



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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:21 pm

Like him or not he's one of the most iconic video game characters of all time that was missing
Why would this shut up Shovel Knight supporters
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Lego Shaq

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:37 pm

Dustination wrote:
Like him or not he's one of the most iconic video game characters of all time that was missing
Why would this shut up Shovel Knight supporters
Didn't say he wasn't one of the most famous gaming characters of all time. Infact I agree with that.
Because it's extremely doubtful we'll get a 3rd third-party character. And for most Shovel Knight fans, due to a leak, the Direct was his last stand.
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Dustination



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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:00 pm

Cloud and Snake were literally the last non-Nintendo video game characters deserving of a spot, anyone else is under them. I would be completely content if this is the last Smash 3rd party character because I know they used it on someone who had an almost unrivaled impact on the history of video games. That, to me, would be one of the most important things when choosing a character from another company who deserves to share the spotlight with the likes of Mario. Every guest character they've included has made a significant influence and is widely recognizable and if they put someone else from a niche franchise like Shovel Knight would soil it.

This doesn't belong here though, I guess. I'd be happy to discuss further in the Smash thread.


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Lego Shaq

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:02 pm

Dustination wrote:
Cloud and Snake were literally the last non-Nintendo video game characters deserving of a spot, anyone else is under them. I would be completely content if this is the last Smash 3rd party character because I know they used it on someone who had an almost unrivaled impact on the history of video games. That, to me, would be one of the most important things when choosing a character from another company who deserves to share the spotlight with the likes of Mario. Every guest character they've included has made a significant influence and is widely recognizable and if they put someone else from a niche franchise like Shovel Knight would soil it.

This doesn't belong here though, I guess. I'd be happy to discuss further in the Smash thread.
I'm dissapointed, you're not. I agree Cloud is iconic, I just don't care much for him.
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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:30 pm

I was about to post the trailer. Seems I was beat to it.


So... Anything that caught your eye that you suppose I should add, anyone?
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:23 pm

Perfect Hell wrote:
Some aspects of the given moveset here could probably be incorporated into the Smash 4 one, depending on their full moveset.  I didn't notice Climhazard in their trailer, nor any elemental magic or strikes, nor was the Up B Finishing Touch, instead stupidly being a generic swordsman type recovery.  I think they were going for Braver there, not entirely sure.  Overall he looks hype but i definitely have some reservations about a few moveset choices.  We'll see.
Actually, some Final Fantasy fans did recognize his Up B as Climhazzard, so there's that.
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MarioStrikerMurphy1994
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:54 am

Support!
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AEM

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:09 am

Finishing Touch may be his Limit Break Down Special.
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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:49 am

AEM wrote:
Finishing Touch may be his Limit Break Down Special.

U-Spec Climhazard, leaving F-Spec open for interpretation.

Actually, Finishing Touch looked more like an amplified Smash to me in the trailer; seems his D-Spec is going to charge his Limit Breaks. I like that idea, maybe I'll add Smash 4's Finishing Touch as his D-Smash instead of his U-Spec...
EDIT: Possibly even U-Smash.

In which case, any suggestions for a new S-Spec, as U-Spec would then be Climhazard?
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:59 am

According to the trailer, this is Cloud's moveset:
Neutral Special - Blade Beam
Side Special - Cross Slash
Up Special - Climhazzard
Down Special - Limit Break (needs confirmation)

Also, his trailer has a bunch of memorable Cloud moments thrown in. Let's see if you guys recognize any.
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Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:18 am

There's no need to change his moveset on this thread just yet. Speculate all you want, we really don't and won't know his full smash moveset until release day. We can only speculate on what inputs we think would make sense for the shown attacks, but that is far from a confirmation.

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GoldenYuiitusin
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:50 pm

Lego Shaq wrote:


+Shuts up the rabid Shovel Knight supporters.

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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:07 am

To be fair, though: Lego Shaq has a point.
I think that neither Shovel Knight nor Shantae should be playable in SM4SH until Quote from Cave Story becomes playable. But alas, that's already going off-topic again, so let's talk about Cloud again, shall we?
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GoldenYuiitusin
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:30 am

TrinitroMan wrote:
To be fair, though: Lego Shaq has a point.
I think that neither Shovel Knight nor Shantae should be playable in SM4SH until Quote from Cave Story becomes playable. But alas, that's already going off-topic again, so let's talk about Cloud again, shall we?
So SK fans should shut up because he's not Quote, who is somehow superior to both him AND Shantae for no real reason. Rolling Eyes

As for Cloud, it'd be best to hold off until he's released and we can see how he works.
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:50 am

GoldenYuiitusin wrote:
TrinitroMan wrote:
To be fair, though: Lego Shaq has a point.
I think that neither Shovel Knight nor Shantae should be playable in SM4SH until Quote from Cave Story becomes playable. But alas, that's already going off-topic again, so let's talk about Cloud again, shall we?
So SK fans should shut up because he's not Quote, who is somehow superior to both him AND Shantae for no real reason. Rolling Eyes
Oh no, you take that back! Cave Story is the father of all Indie games.
If Cave Story wouldn't have existed, then neither Shovel Knight nor the indie version of Shantae would exist.
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