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 Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion

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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:28 pm


UPDATE NOTICE: I've updated the thread with a support list at the very bottom of this post! Let me know if I've made a mistake, misspelling, or have forgotten someone, and if you'd like to either support or back out then I'll gladly make appropriate adjustments.

I've decided to take extra care with this one, so along with an extensive preview of the moveset, I've also gone the extra mile to include Crusade-sized sprites! Keep in mind that these sprites will NOT be used in the event that Cloud makes it into Crusade, and are merely for exemplary purposes and visual aid.
Sounds are also included as two separate, safe downloads below; One for SFX and another for Voice Clips, respectively.

And as one last thing before I begin, I'm also going to be including a few GFX that couldn't be easily replicated in Crusade's current engine, such as the effects for Cross Slash, just to be safe.

Playstyle:
Cloud is a lightning bruiser, though only in select cases. Like Lucas, Cloud is perfectly capable of both dealing damage in rapid succession and disposing of opponents; however, his kill moves aren't nearly as fast as his other moves. He attacks relentlessly with quick, high-range but low-damage attacks and then attempts to finish of opponents using slow, high-knockback kill moves. This means that a Cloud player will usually spend a lot of time dealing damage while waiting for his chance to have enough time to successfully pull off a kill move. Using Fire/Firaga and Meteorain, Cloud also has a more limited version of field control, since these attacks aren't nearly as useful as projectiles and are more of a zoning mechanism than anything. Cloud also can't take as much damage as he can deal, and is a relatively light character (harkening back to boss battles in the Final Fantasy series, where your opponent has vastly more HP than you and you have to use your higher damage output and keen sense of strategy to overcome that hurdle).
Cloud's most unique property, however, is his Limit Break mechanic; Over the course of the battle, Cloud will build up a green "aura" (similar to Lucas's yellow "aura" when using Offense-Up). As Cloud takes and deals damage, the aura will get larger, until it eventually reaches its limit and a quick sound will play signifying that a Limit Break is ready. During this phase, all of Cloud's Special Moves transform into more powerful versions of themselves that either compliment Cloud's strengths or potentially make up for his weaknesses. These Limit Breaks will be covered more in-depth in the "Special Moves" section.
The Limit Break grows at a rate both quicker than and inverse to the typical Final Smash growth rate, favouring damage taken over damage dealt (that is to say, where you would obtain a Final Smash after dealing around 300% damage, you would obtain a Limit Break after receiving around 100% damage.). This does not scale with an altered Final Smash rate (so if you set Final Smashes to appear at 200% damage dealt, then you would still get a Limit Break after 100% is taken, not 66%.).

Reason for inclusion:
Fanboys calling him God or not, Cloud is still the most recognizable Final Fantasy character in media, for better or for worse. What a lot of people overlook is that, overhype and bad aging or not, Final Fantasy VII is an incredibly important JRPG, and an incredibly influential game in general. While it can be argued that past JRPGs invented the formula and made it well-known, Final Fantasy VII made it a phenomenon as well as gave JRPGs a solid spot in the minds of gamers as some of the most expansive, immersive, and story-driven game games of their time (arguably). It's had multiple movies and spin-offs based off of it, more than any other Final Fantasy series, and he's even chosen as the lone guest character in Final Fantasy Tactics due to his sheer popularity. And for those upset with his rather... Over-emotional personality, so to speak, that was never an element of his original appearance (outside of a few moments where he doubts himself, but he quickly pulls himself back together shortly thereafter). Let's not forget the recently announced remake, either; That alone was enough for many people to claim that Sony won this year's E3 (hyperbole or not), and will definitely make up for the original game's lack of graceful aging with flying colours. Cloud is, by far and large, the most famous character in Square Enix's Final Fantasy roster... So I think it goes without saying that he's an important candidate should we be considering getting a Final Fantasy rep.
Also, yes, he has appeared on Nintendo consoles four times; Twice counting the Theatrhythm games, as well as Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories and Kingdom Hearts RE:Coded. Though they may not be outstanding acts, they are at the very least examples of him having contact with a Nintendo system, and frankly if we're including Crash that's all we're going to need here.
Oh, and we sort of have a Final Fantasy VII stage in the game already. So it'd be nice to have its main character in the roster as well.

Now, I will get into the moveset, but to be as in-detail as possible I'm going to talk about the more mundane stuff first and get that out of the way.

Entry:



Cloud stands with his hand stretched upwards as his sword spins and falls down to him, saying "Are you ready for this?". After it is caught, he quickly rests it on his back. Then, the battle begins.

Idle:

Cloud stands in his iconic battle pose, both hands firmly grasping the Buster Sword and with one foot forwards.

Idle to Crouch/Crouch to Idle

A quick little in-between frame for a smoother transition.

Crouch

Self-Explanatory. (From now on, any animations I deem self-explanatory will not come with an explanation.)

Jump Start

Upon closer inspection, characters do seem to use this, so here we are; an animation for the start of the jump! It's obviously very quick.

Jump


Double-Jump

Cloud boosts up into the air, and then rest his sword on his shoulder, ready for a strike.

Special Fall

(Changed to just the Special Fall, as characters seem to use the last frame of their jump as their fall sprite)

Guard/Shield


Spot Dodge

Quickly sidesteps. The middle frame is where he would flash, showing his dodge.

Roll Forwards

Dashes forwards, then catches his footing and turns around.

Roll Backwards

Hops Backwards and rights himself.

Walk
[NO ANIMATION YET]
Cloud edges forwards, sword grasped firmly in his hands.

Run


Hurt 1


Hurt 2


Hurt Flying


Hurt Flying 2


Downed


Taunt

Lifts his sword into a upwards position, then says one of three lines (I couldn't decide, again, it's up to the devs);
"Hm." (A simple grunt)
"Feel the planet's wrath!"
or
"No hard feelings." (I was torn as to whether I should make this his winquote or not.)

Win

Turns around, rests his sword on his back, closes his eyes, and then says one of two possible quotes (again, indecisive);
"No hard feelings."
or
"I earned this victory."

--------------------------------------------------------------

Next up are the standard attacks.

Jab combo

A quick downwards slash... (1%)

...A quick upwards slash... (2%)

...And then finally, a sword slam. It should stall a bit on the last frame. (3%)
The first two slashes easily chain together, while the last hit is strong but not reliable for a kill.

Dash Attack

Cloud dashes forwards, slicing twice with great speed, then skids along the ground for a moment. The first hit always chains into the second hit, which always launches the opponent at a consistent 35 degree angle and with fixed knockback. The slide lasts a total of 5 frames and moves him just slightly less far than Shadow's Dash Attack moves him, and can be jump-canceled to initiate an aerial combo. Deals 1% on the first hit and 4% on the second hit.

F-Tilt

Executes two horizontal strikes in quick succession. The first hit has very low knockback and should (under usual circumstances) chain into the second hit, without knockback growth. The second hit should have below-average knockback and minimal knockback growth; Enough to push the enemy away and deal noticably more knockback as the opponent takes more damage, but not enough to be warranted as any sort of kill move. Deals 2% damage on first hit, 4% on second hit.

D-Tilt

Stands up and delivers a quick stab, then crouches back down. Deals 4% with average knockback, though minimal knockback growth.

U-Tilt

Makes a wide, crescent-shaped slash upwards. Launches straight upwards, but has bad kill potential. Deals 5%.

[NEW!!]F-Smash
(Charge)

Using Braver, Cloud leaps forwards, then crashes down with a strong swing. After he lands, a spire of Mako aura explodes from under the blade's impact. Has great kill potential when hitting near the explosion, but long start-up time and endlag. Deals ~15% damage (depending on charge) on the tip of the blade and near Cloud's body, and deals a combination of aura and slash damage in the middle of the blade (near the explosion) for ~27% (depending on charge). The Mako explosion itself does not deal damage and is merely a visual indicator of the blade's sweetspot, to prevent Cloud's F-Smash hitbox from becoming too large.
As this attack is a signature move, it benefits from Limit Break. However, when using it as a Limit Break, this attack changes into another one entirely; Blade Beam. When used as Blade Beam, Cloud attacks as normal, though the explosion of aura is no longer part of the attack; instead, Cloud shoots a large, crescent-shaped blast of energy forwards, launching opponents from a distance. The beam is fast and powerful and travels about 3/4 of Final Destination's width, though it lacks the level of power usually associated with Limit Breaks to balance out having the best range of any other Limit Break (outside of possibly Meteorain). The slash itself now has consistent damage and knockback throughout the entirety of the blade, with good kill potential, and deals ~25% damage (depending on charge). The beam is slightly weaker, dealing ~15% (depending on charge) and killing at around 110%, much less than most other Limit Breaks.

D-Smash
(Charge)

Cloud quickly stabs his sword into the ground, and after half of a second an explosion of Mako erupts around him. The graphic for the Mako explosion is not included, but it's basically just a green version of Goku's aura anyways. The stab deals no knockback, but stuns to ensure a hit (assuming the opponent got that close to begin with). The explosion deals good knockback, hits both sides and has good kill potential, but deals overall much less knockback and kill potential than his F-Smash. The explosion deals aura damage. Deals 3% on stab, ~13% on explosion depending on charge.

[NEW!!]U-Smash
(Charge)

Cloud readies his sword and gathers strength, then quickly swings it upwards and around himself, his blade augmented with Thunder. The attack has high startup and endlag, but has kill potential that's only slightly lower than that seen in his F-Smash; the difference is that this attack launches at a consistent 75 degree angle and has slightly less horizontal range, allowing for more favourable kills on stages with lower ceilings. Even though it also hits behind him, the damage dealt there is negligible. Deals ~20% depending on charge in the front, and 5% in the back with average knockback and average knockback growth. All attacks deal a combination of electric and slash damage. Even though Cloud uses Thunder in this move, it is not affected in any way by Limit Break and is purely cosmetic.

N-Air

Cloud quickly swings horizontally twice, in rapid succession. The first attack always chains into the second one, and the attack has good range and low knockback, allowing for easy combos (sort of like a larger, faster version of Falcon's N-Air); However, at 1% per hit, it won't be killing anyone anytime soon and is solely for combo purposes.

F-Air

Cloud quickly slashes in front of him in a wide swing. Covers a wide area and has consistently good knockback but low kill potential, like his Dash Attack. Deals 4%.

B-Air

Cloud turns and quickly slashes behind himself. This attack is slightly slower than his F-Air, but also deals noticeably higher knockback. Deals 6%.

[NEW!!]D-Air

Cloud gathers his strength, and then quickly slices twice downwards with swift swings. The first hit has no knockback growth, and chains directly into the second hit. Has high startup time, but the second hit is a meteor smash in the middle of the blade (the horizontal part). The tip of the blade launches at the Sakurai angle (the diagonal part). Deals 2% on the first hit. The second hit deals 8% in the middle, 5% at the tip, with a combination of electric and slash damage.

U-Air

A quick swing upwards. Like his U-Tilt, this shoots straight upwards but won't be killing anyone ever unless you're too close to the ceiling's blastline. However, the U-Air version deals much less knockback, allowing for easier combos. Deals 3%.

Post-Attack Landing

Plays if he lands in the middle of an aerial attack, though I'm not sure if this is still in Crusade or not.

Grab

Cloud casts Stop in a short range in front of him. If it hits the opponent, it acts as a grab.
(Loops if the grab is successful)

[NEW!!]Pummel

Cloud stabs his captive quickly, then recasts Stop. Deals 3%, and is as quick as the animation.

F-Throw

Slices forwards, breaking the opponent out of Stop and flying forwards. Has good knockback and predictably sub-par kill potential, but unlike similar moves it can still kill at very very high percentages. Deals 6%, kills at 170%.

[NEW!!]B-Throw

Cloud turns around and impales the opponent on his blade, then swings them overhead and slams them into the ground, casting Blizzard from his blade to freeze them as they land. This launches opponents straight upwards and is a good combo starter. It also turns Cloud around to better combo his opponents. Deals 2% on the impale, 4% on the slam with a combination of ice and slash damage).  Even though Cloud uses Blizzard in this move, it is not affected in any way by Limit Break and is purely cosmetic.

[NEW!!]U-Throw

Cloud casts a spike of ice using Blizzard that lifts the opponent upwards, then follows it up with a leaping dual slash. The explosion always lifts the opponent at just the right height for the first hit to connect, the first hit always connects with the second hit, and the second hit spikes the opponent at a 315 degree angle. The second hit also has no knockback growth, but has consistently above-average knockback to still ensure that the spike is effective to at least some degree without the benefit of knockback growth. Deals 3% on the explosion, 2% on the first slash, and 3% on the second slash. Even though Cloud uses Blizzard in this move, it is not affected in any way by Limit Break and is purely cosmetic.

D-Throw (Cross Slash)

Cloud performs Cross Slash on his trapped opponent. The first two hits lack knockback, though the last blow has similar kill potential to most F-Tilts that aren't Cloud's. Since this attack is a signature move, it benefits from Limit Break. When using it as a Limit Break, it deals noticeably more damage and can kill opponents, at the cost of using up your Limit Break. Deals 1% for the first two hits, then 6% for the last hit. When used as a Limit Break, it deals 2% for the first two hits, then 12% for the last hit and kills at around 80-90%. During the Limit Break version of this attack, Cloud has Super Armor, so it can't be interrupted by another opponent.
(GFX For Cross Slash:)



(The spin only plays when used as a Limit Break)
(Resize them if necessary)

--------------------------------------------------------------

Now for the Specials...

N-Spec: Fire/Firaga
(Using Fire)
(Using Firaga)
Cloud summons a relatively large ball of fire (about half the size of his standing sprite and equally as long) to roam very, very slowly around the battlefield, homing in on nearby opponents. The fireball is active for around 5 for seconds, though it also detonates upon contact with an opponent. Cloud cannot summon another fireball if the current one is still active, and attempting to do so will play the animation but only result in summoning a small puff of smoke (similar to Robin). When used as a Limit Break, this attack is changed to Firaga. The fireball is much larger (roughly 1.25x the size of the one summoned via Fire) and is just over twice as fast. It also stays on the field for 8 seconds as opposed to five, making it even more likely that it will hit its mark. To be clear, Fire cannot be used while either Fire or Firaga is active, though Firaga can be used while Fire is active. These attacks are meant to control the playing field by discouraging the opponent from attacking from places that Cloud might find inconvenient for him to attack, or to simply keep an extra guard up just in case. Fire deals 5% on impact with decent knockback but zero kill potential, while Firaga deals 3% rapid damage (three hits) then explodes for 4%, with good knockback and minimal kill potential while also being a decent threat to shields (think Ryu's strong F-Tilt in Smash 4).

F-Spec: Climhazard
(Start)
(Dashing)
(Uppercut upon hit)
(Second uppercut in Limit Break)
(Finishing hit in Limit Break)
Cloud readies his blade, then dashes forwards at breakneck speeds (similar to Ike's Quick Draw). After a short distance (roughly half of Final Destination) he'll simply stop in place for a while, though if he hits someone with his dash he'll rocket upwards with a quick uppercut! The uppercut can be followed into by any other attack besides Climhazard, making it an ideal combo starter. When used as a Limit Break, however, it completely transforms into one of Cloud's most reliable kill moves. When used as a Limit Break, not only is the dash faster but it also ignores shields, meaning that it will always connect so long as the opponent doesn't dodge it normally. Afterwards, Cloud will follow up with a second uppercut, and then finish with a rising slash that has great kill potential. When used in the air as a non-Limit Break, Cloud will become helpless unless he connects with it; however, when used as a Limit Break, Cloud does not become helpless in the air even if it doesn't connect, allowing it to double as a reliable recovery should you be willing to spend your Limit Break. Deals 2% upon connecting with the dash and 4% on the follow-up slash. When used as a Limit Break, the former attacks deal the same amount of damage, though the additional attacks add on 6% and 8%, respectively. The last hit in the Limit Break variation will kill at around 75%.

D-Spec: Meteorain
(On the ground)
(In the air)
Clouds raises his sword and then swings it down, summoning a meteor from right above him. The Meteor falls about 1/4 of the length of Final Destination from Cloud's current position, and explodes upon contact with a surface. It can be used as a very good edgeguarding tool, though the meteor moves slowly and can't be re-summoned so long as it's already on the battlefield. It doesn't explode after making contact with players, but it does explode on its own if it doesn't touch a surface within 2.5 seconds. When summoned in the air, it instead launches straight below Cloud from above him, making it more of a cross between an anti-ground attack and a zoning tool than a zoning tool and an edgeguarding tool. When used as a Limit Break, a stream of five meteors is instead summoned to rain havoc upon those who are within range. The ranges of the attacks have not changed (aerial version still shoots straight down and grounded version is aimed 1/4 of Final Destination away from Cloud), though the meteors are much, much faster, on-par with Samus's Super Missiles. The meteors also explode upon contact with an opponent when used as a Limit Break, as opposed to only detonating upon impact with a surface. Deals 1% upon the slash and 3% upon impact with minimal knockback and no growth, and 5% with good knockback and sub-par growth if the explosion hits. When used as a Limit Break, the slash deals 3% damage and knocks the opponents into the line of fire on the ground while acting as a meteor smash in the air. Each meteor deals 4% damage with noticeable hit-pause to allow each meteor to combo into each other. After the hit-pause wears off, the opponent is launched with good knockback and decent kill potential (at around 95%). Cloud can be attacked during the summon whether used as a Limit Break or not, preventing the meteors from appearing.

U-Spec: Finishing Touch
(Start) (Sped up x2 and looped thrice, slowing down to x1.5 on the second loop and x1 on the third loop.)
(Limit Break finisher)
This version of the Finishing Touch is more reminiscent of its Dissidia incarnation than its original appearance. Cloud swings his sword rapidly, ascending straight up while wrapped in a makeshift tornado. Cloud can't steer left or right while using this attack, but it does lift him a good distance upwards, similar in distance and speed to Samus's Screw Attack. It covers a wide area and attacks both sides, scooping up enemies and dealing rapid damage, then spitting them out once it's done. The final hit deals good knockback, though it throws at a random sideways angle and it isn't reliable for kills, just for getting opponents to back off. When used as a Limit Break, Cloud gains a sudden boost in horizontal control and can freely and speedily move left and right while spinning, greatly improving recovery. It also ends in a finishing slash that acts as a strong Meteor slash, being very slightly weaker than Ganondorf's D-Air. This makes it a very reliable method of killing when off-stage, though unlike Climhazard's Limit Break variation this attack still leaves you helpless in the air regardless of whether it's used as a Limit Break or not. All opponents currently caught in Finishing Blow will also be sent into the direction of the final attack right before it executes, guaranteeing it hits so long as you've trapped an opponent. Rapidly deals 1% damage five times while spinning, and deals 3% on the final blow. When used as a Limit Break, it deals 2% damage five times while spinning and 5% on the finishing slash.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

[NEW!!]Final Smash: Omnislash
(Start on the ground)
(Start in the air)
(The attack, which is the same animation for both in the air as well on the ground)
(The optional landing animation for the aerial variation)
Cloud's signature finishing move, Omnislash, is his penultimate Limit Break (though this one is only a Limit Break in name). Cloud readies his sword, focuses, and then dashes forwards at a breakneck pace. On the ground, Cloud continues to run until he either comes into contact with an opponent or falls off the edge of a platform; if Cloud reaches the edge of the stage while running, he trips off of it and fails to execute the attack. While in the air, Cloud instead starts off the attack with a slash that moves him forwards very quickly, though unlike the grounded version he stops immediately if it doesn't connect. Regardless of the method of activation, hitting an opponent will result in Omnislash activating. Cloud will assault the enemy with a barrage of slashes, each one making a distinct sound unique to Final Fantasy VII's strongest slash-based attacks. After the opponent has been thoroughly diced, Cloud leaps into the air to ready one last blow, and then crashes down on them for a winning strike. The final attack also creates a relatively large Mako aura explosion, for aesthetic purposes. Each of the ten slashes deal 2% for a total of 20% damage, with the final attack dealing 15% with amazing knockback and kill potential (with the final hit killing at 45% and the explosion killing at 75%) for a total of 35% damage. As an added bonus, when used in the air, Cloud will throw his sword in the air upon landing and then catch it, calling back to his pose when using Omnislash V5; however, this will only occur if no other action is made after Omnislash ends, so it can be canceled via airdodge or any other action. During the animation, Cloud also has super armor to prevent it from being interrupted, though he can still take damage. While a Limit Break is available, this attack becomes much more devastating as Cloud equips the Ultima Weapon for the entire duration of the attack. Each of the first ten slashes deal 3% with the Ultima Weapon, with the final hit dealing 20% for a solid 50% damage. The Mako explosion is also much larger when using the Ultima Weapon (by roughly 15%), and both the finishing blow and the Mako explosion receive major kill power boosts (around 30% for the final blow, 65% for the explosion).

So... I know that was a rather large post, but I'm very interested to hear what you all think! Do you think he's overpowered? Do you think he's underpowered? Do you think that he's a bad idea in general? Or do you think this is all perfectly fine, and want to support his inclusion? Let me know with your responses!

(Also, I apologize for not providing all of the possible animations, though hopefully these will be a good head start should Cloud ever actually be considered for Crusade.)

(Sound Files:
mediafire.com download/s3h4mkwyzad8vnl/SFX.rar
mediafire.com download/sivvanfmloono31/Voice.rar)


SUPPORT LIST

CONFIRMED:

Naughty Ottsel

AkumaTh

VultureDuck

desu

Lego Shaq

MarioStrikerMurphy1994

DSwift

Perfect Hell

TaXMaN

eris27100

Trinitroman

CJ

SageHarpuiaJDJ

Shiruzato (this counts I suppose?)

Geno Boost

TheMayMaysJack

PENDING:

Dustination (seems to like it, though I'm not quite sure yet)

Roy (is on the fence)


Last edited by Shiruza on Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:35 am; edited 23 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:15 pm

My thoughts:

- Cloud has a semi-unique mechanic. Huh. I guess it's similar to Little Mac and Lucario in Sm4sh. One thing I don't understand is how he loses his Limit Break - his moves state that they use the Limit Break? So does that mean he only gets one more-powerful attack for every 100% taken? And does he lose it upon death?

- I like how you defined his playstyle from the get-go, and design his moveset around that. A lot of his attacks are fast, but his kill moves are slow. This sets him apart from other sword users.

- Animations are terrible, he would need to be completely remade. But I guess you knew that. This also means that you shouldn't limit your attacks based on what sprites you had available.


I guess I'd support Cloud if he was made right, and this is a good step in the right direction.
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:23 pm

Roy wrote:
My thoughts:

- Cloud has a semi-unique mechanic. Huh. I guess it's similar to Little Mac and Lucario in Sm4sh. One thing I don't understand is how he loses his Limit Break - his moves state that they use the Limit Break? So does that mean he only gets one more-powerful attack for every 100% taken? And does he lose it upon death?

- I like how you defined his playstyle from the get-go, and design his moveset around that. A lot of his attacks are fast, but his kill moves are slow. This sets him apart from other sword users.

- Animations are terrible, he would need to be completely remade. But I guess you knew that. This also means that you shouldn't limit your attacks based on what sprites you had available.


I guess I'd support Cloud if he was made right, and this is a good step in the right direction.

-Basically, he gets one every 100% he takes, but that's assuming he'll never get a hit in. He gets half as much increase on his Limit Break by giving damage as he does taking it, so if he was taking hits and giving hits at an equal rate he'd end up getting a Limit Break at roughly 75%.

...Now that you mention it, though, I suppose it would only be fair for the Limit Break "counter" to not reset after a KO (so he'd take 50% on the first stock, then 50% on the next stock, equaling 100% and giving him a Limit Break (again, assuming he only takes hits)). Basically, it'd... Work like how a Final Smash does in Crusade, only with an inverted method of increasing it and a faster rate of increase.

-Thank you, I tried not to make him a Marth/Ike clone.

-The animations do look REALLY choppy here, I can agree with that, but they look fine in the right context. As an example, I'll post some gameplay of MGSSJ2's character and show how it looks with the sword trails applied;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-gxRc9V7uY

But yeah, they do need a touch up. Still better than going off of nothing, though, so I think it's at least a start.
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:09 pm

I like the moveset!

The effort is definitely appreciated but unfortunately these sprites do not match the new standard we have set and would not be able to be used. They do give us a good idea of how the moves should work.

Definitely one of the most well put together suggestions so far.

_________________


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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:10 pm

Dustination wrote:
I like the moveset!

The effort is definitely appreciated but unfortunately these sprites do not match the new standard we have set and would not be able to be used.

Definitely one of the most well put together suggestions so far.

Well... Alright, then. If it's not up to standard then there's nothing I can really do about that.

Thank you. Any critiques?
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:28 pm

I do like the sprites. But a good number of them do need to get reworked so they could look better. For example, the walking animation is definitely a lot better as a Running Animation than a Walking animation. The Running is like if he has the Bunny Ears on.
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:12 pm

AkumaTh wrote:
I do like the sprites. But a good number of them do need to get reworked so they could look better. For example, the walking animation is definitely a lot better as a Running Animation than a Walking animation. The Running is like if he has the Bunny Ears on.

You're right, I was working with what I had. If these are to ever be used and redone that would be better used as a running animation. Again, though, it's up to the devs as to whether or not they're even going to use these in the event that Cloud's accepted.
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:19 pm

Definitely support! This is a really impressive suggestion, and I think it pretty well represents Cloud from both FFVII and Dissidia. Though I do think it would have been better to focus the moves on what Cloud himself can do, rather than what matched these shoddy sprites. Still, great post!
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:52 pm

Shiruza wrote:
You're right, I was working with what I had. If these are to ever be used and redone that would be better used as a running animation. Again, though, it's up to the devs as to whether or not they're even going to use these in the event that Cloud's accepted.

Another thing would be to get the permission of the one who made these sprites. Even if it is accepted, it would be a lot of work if the original creator said no.

But for now, I'll give my support: both for the character and the possibility of adding new poses/animations.
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:05 pm

AkumaTh wrote:
Shiruza wrote:
You're right, I was working with what I had. If these are to ever be used and redone that would be better used as a running animation. Again, though, it's up to the devs as to whether or not they're even going to use these in the event that Cloud's accepted.

Another thing would be to get the permission of the one who made these sprites. Even if it is accepted, it would be a lot of work if the original creator said no.

But for now, I'll give my support: both for the character and the possibility of adding new poses/animations.

If you can find them. I've decided to ask MGSSJ2 but he's been absent for years now. I tried an image search and the only results had to do with MGSSJ2, all twenty of them, though he says he did none of the sprite work in its readme. I wish I knew who they were. As far as I know they're practically disowned, that or they showed up out of nowhere.

I actually would like using these as merely a base, not as a direct source. I've had a few other ideas for attacks that were more flashy than the others, and knowing now that having them edited or even redone is actually an option makes me feel much more inclined to admit that.

EDIT: Maybe it's the artist is in his character's code somewhere...

UPDATE: Yep, in the .def. The artist's name is MattFV. Success!
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:19 pm

Just read through it.
He's actually more unique than expected, so maybe I judged to early.
Of course I wont give up with Squall either, but you definitely gave out a good moveset.
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:37 pm

TrinitroMan wrote:
Just read through it.
He's actually more unique than expected, so maybe I judged to early.
Of course I wont give up with Squall either, but you definitely gave out a good moveset.

Thank you! I like your ideas for Squall as well, especially with the timed button presses, they add quite a bit of diversity to his gameplay. I look forwards to seeing how everything pans out with Squall!

Tip though: Squall doesn't actually shoot anything out of his gunblade that isn't a gigantic beam of energy. Focus more on his use of magic, combos, and timed hits than the gun/blade dynamic.


Last edited by Shiruza on Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:16 pm

SOOOO GOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!

support
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:31 pm

VultureDuck wrote:
SOOOO GOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!

support

Hey, thanks! Any support is welcomed! Very Happy

Also, sorry AkumaTh and Naughty Ottsel; I forgot to thank you too! It's really nice to hear that people support this idea, so thank you for contributing to Cloud's potential inclusion! ^-^
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:45 pm

Shiruza wrote:
UPDATE: Yep, in the .def. The artist's name is MattFV. Success!

No success. Besides not one frame of that sprite appearing, comparing his work available to the Cloud sprite in question does not match in style. If anything, he probably help create additional sprites since he does not remember who made the first frame.

Safe bet is to look for another JUS Style Cloud sprite where we can get actual permission from the creator.
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:51 pm

AkumaTh wrote:
Shiruza wrote:
UPDATE: Yep, in the .def. The artist's name is MattFV. Success!

No success. Besides not one frame of that sprite appearing, comparing his work available to the Cloud sprite in question does not match in style. If anything, he probably help create additional sprites since he does not remember who made the first frame.

Safe bet is to look for another JUS Style Cloud sprite where we can get actual permission from the creator.

Shame. I'm sure the Crusade team can make a good sheet, but either way you're right. I'm trying to sell this character to them, after all, so I suppose it's best I do as much of the dirty work as possible. xD

Thank you! Time to go mining the internet again!


Edit; Actually, you're sort of basing that on an assumption. It could very well be old work, it was released in 2012 after all. And after looking around... Yeah, it's not getting better than this if we're using pre-made resources. My best bet right now is to just ask him about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:44 pm

UPDATE: I've asked him about it and he's requesting I show him the sprite sheet. His wording shows that it is his sheet, however, and I'm currently negotiating with him. Waiting for a response.
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:33 am

This is incredibly well made, kudos. There are a few more things i would've liked to see incorporated, though none are outright necessary. Ultima, for example.

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:39 pm

Perfect Hell wrote:
This is incredibly well made, kudos.  There are a few more things i would've liked to see incorporated, though none are outright necessary.  Ultima, for example.

Well actually, I was originally thinking of having Cloud wield the Ultima Weapon as a sort of "Limit Break" version of his Final Smash (no, it's not redundant, shuddup); The animation would be the same, but it would incorporate the Ultima Weapon as opposed to the Buster Sword. It would also create small shockwaves upon impact with every hit that would slightly damage opponents as a sort of collateral effect, and the blast radius of the Mako explosion would be around 1.25x as large. It would also deal much more knockback on the final hit, and receive a damage increase of 0.5% (as in, damage, not actual percentage) per slash. Logically, this could only be used with a Limit Break ready and would use up said Limit Break once it was finished.

The reason why I didn't incorporate this was because the sprites didn't allow me to do this and I wanted to minimize the workload for the dev team as much as possible. I also didn't want to make his Final Smash overpowered.
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:39 pm

In order to help presentation, I'll be trying to tweak some of the animations over the course of the next week or so. To start off, I've updated the D-Air, as well as few others; check it out, if you're interested!
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:22 pm

That's great, I hope you aren't doing that to try and get them in the game though because if we added Cloud we definitely would not be using this base sprite.

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:25 pm

Dustination wrote:
That's great, I hope you aren't doing that to try and get them in the game though because if we added Cloud we definitely would not be using this base sprite.

No, just to help visualize a bit more and modify some attacks. Plus it's fun to tinker around.

So it's confirmed then that you won't be using these sprites, at all? I no longer require permission from the spriter?
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:35 pm

If Cloud gets in the game we would not be using these sprites, at all.

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:55 pm

Dustination wrote:
If Cloud gets in the game we would not be using these sprites, at all.

Alright then; Duly noted.

I'll be editing them still, because it at least makes it look nicer overall, but I'll accept that they won't be used.

Honestly, I'm excited to see what you'll come up with! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:42 pm

I wanted to add some new moves, but got a little carried away and reanimated the entire page to make it look a little better. Let me know what you think of Cloud's new moves!
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:03 pm

Looks cool!

Also, don't worry about moves being OP. Anything can be balanced.

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:00 pm

Dustination wrote:
Looks cool!

Also, don't worry about moves being OP. Anything can be balanced.

Alright, then, but I'll still do my best to make sure you all don't have to spend too much time balancing. This is my character thread, after all; If I'm recommending it, then I should make sure that the character is as appealing and easy to add as possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:15 pm

I've informed the original artist that the sprites won't be used at all. In other words, I'll finally stop spamming my own post with updates on that whole thing. xD

Here on out is just discussion. If you have any recommendations, complaints, or concerns, just list them down here and brainstorm amongst yourselves. If necessary I can clear some things up personally. Again, sorry for spamming in my own thread; from here on out, it's all you guys. ^ ^
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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:31 am

Revisiting this for moveset entertainment purposes, I've realized you're missing two very important Cloud signature attacks. The first is Braver, his original limit break, and the second is the ever-popular Blade Beam limit break, seen in Dissidia and Advent Children as well as the original game.

Fsmash happens to look just like Braver, so why not just name it as such? Then, limit break mechanic could apply to it, and since i dont know where else it could go, why not have it's limit break variation launch a blade beam?

Blade beam is supposed to deal damage based upon the user's health, so it could be a unique projectile whose damage is multiplied based off the user's percent.

In the magic department he also seems biased towards fire. Not the worst thing since that's what they did in Dissidia, but in reality Cloud should have an even representation of fire, ice and lightning imo. Not sure what to do with them moveset-wise though, so maybe nothing needs to change there.

Though, in Record Keeper cloud's use of elemental magic was represented through the Spellblade skill tree. Perhaps just adding lightning and ice effects to a few of his stronger sword attacks would be enough. Up smash for example could be given lightning, and maybe the fire explosion of up throw could instead be an ice pillar/spike.

Beyond that, Ultima Weapon on Final Smash would be cool. Sprite limitation aside (these sprites wouldn't be used anyway), i think it's doable. As of Dissidia it's a thing to have Cloud's weapon change out for his final smash. Though on the other hand, it didn't change in Advent Children, so it could go either way. However, I think that has to do with the difference between what looks good on a movie screen vs a video game, and overall I would give him Ultima Weapon on his final smash. It doesn't necessarily have to be for a "limit break" version of FS either, just the aesthetic change to what his FS currently is.

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PostSubject: Re: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy) Discussion   Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:39 am

I liked all of these ideas, and incorporated them to reflect that. Check out the updated moves for more info.
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