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 Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)

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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:04 am

Super Smash Bros Crusade already has a Final Fantasy stage, so adding a Final Fantasy character is nothing wrong, right?
Final Fantasy character? What about Cloud Strife? He is pretty much the face of Final Fantasy.
That's right, except...
HE'S BORING! So instead, let's add the closest thing to a Final Fantasy face that is NOT Cloud, but instead a more awesome choice. I present to you:

Squall Leonhart, from Final Fantasy 8. Complete with his trademark gunblade.
Here is his moveset (sprites by SeanAltly):
Spoiler:
 

I choose Squall over every other Final Fantasy character, because he is the first Final Fantasy character with a gunblade, and one of the very VERY few swordsfighters, who can also use magic attacks. That, and Cloud is overrated.


Last edited by TrinitroMan on Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:37 am; edited 4 times in total
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VultureDuck
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:44 am

Alright, here's the problem with this.

1. Squall is the most unique just because he has a gun blade? Looking at the moveset, he's no different to any other swordsman, since he uses more slash attacks and has no involvement with the gun part (unless if it's used for his magic)

2. That moveset is so generic, boring, and that it rips off other characters. You didn't convince me that Squall is more worthy than other FF characters. Hell, you convinced me that Cloud is 5x more worthy than Mr. Genericheart. Instead of using sprites as a source, research him more, and give him unique properties.
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:44 pm

To be fair, the way Squall uses his Gun in the actual games combat system is through a "trigger" system, and throughout that moveset there are moves labeled as "trigger" supported. It's a turn-based combat game, so basically during an attack you could press R1 at the exact moment of the slash connecting to pull the trigger and basically shoot the opponent as you slash them, for bonus damage. This would probably translate to Smash with the A or B button.

The moveset could definitely use work though, FF8 is definitely one of the gems of the series and this moveset is absolutely awful. Take some inspiration from Dissidia possibly, they did a great job.

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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:55 pm

Okay, I have looked up. Fated Circle might be a good replacement for Blizzard. It's a spin attack, which creates a ring of orbs. Said orbs deflect magic (and in Crusade, they could deflect unconventional projectiles like Samus' plasma shots). What do you guys think?
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VultureDuck
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:14 pm

TrinitroMan wrote:
Okay, I have looked up. Fated Circle might be a good replacement for Blizzard. It's a spin attack, which creates a ring of orbs. Said orbs deflect magic (and in Crusade, they could deflect unconventional projectiles like Samus' plasma shots). What do you guys think?
I never played FF8, but I have some suggestions.

1. Pressing the B button again will have the orbs home-in at the opponents, this be use for combing with other moves.

2. If the orbs get hit by a projectile, hey would get bigger and stronger. They will be only hit three times, and during the third hit, pressing B will cause 2 explosions between Squall.

3. Getting close to the opponent wilth the orbs causes damage to them (with no knockback), this also includes grabbing them, so it can be good for getting extra damage.
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:06 am

VultureDuck wrote:
TrinitroMan wrote:
Okay, I have looked up. Fated Circle might be a good replacement for Blizzard. It's a spin attack, which creates a ring of orbs. Said orbs deflect magic (and in Crusade, they could deflect unconventional projectiles like Samus' plasma shots). What do you guys think?
I never played FF8, but I have some suggestions.

2. If the orbs get hit by a projectile, hey would get bigger and stronger. They will be only hit three times, and during the third hit, pressing B will cause 2 explosions between Squall.

3. Getting close to the opponent wilth the orbs causes damage to them (with no knockback), this also includes grabbing them, so it can be good for getting extra damage.
Suggestion 3 will definitely work (minus the grabbing part, since the ring of orbs is only there during Fated Circle). Suggestion 2 can only work, if every projectile deflector in Crusade does that.
Aside from that, I might make it like that so the sword spin part of Fated Circle can be triggered as well, but I have no idea, if that would make the attack broken.
But at least I can confirm now that Fated Circle will replace Magic - Thunder (although the only sprite reference of Fated Circle that I have looks really...bad, to say the least).
Also, Magic - Blizzard gets replaced with another Dissidia rendition of a Squall attack: Blizzard Bullet (again, no sprite reference, because SeanAltly's Squall was made before Dissidia was released). I'll go update the moveset now!
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VultureDuck
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:45 am

I was talking about the orbs absorbing the projectiles rather than reflecting them, kind of like Ness's PSI Magnet.

Edit: Or for that matter, Mr. Game & Watch's Bucket


Last edited by VultureDuck on Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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SP



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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:09 am

I'll be honest, I only know of this guy because of Kingdom Hearts
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Mellon
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:15 am

Y'know...adding Squall over Cloud because Cloud is boring is not that good of an excuse. That's like adding Luigi over Mario because Luigi has more personality, or Nate over Red (Pokemon Trainers) because Nate battled more Champions. It doesn't work that way. Plus, like Puft, I only know of Squall from Kingdom Hearts
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:25 am

That's not the same thing, though. Mario and Red are the main protagonists and their series and not Luigi and Nate (the only Mario games with Luigi as a main protagonist are just spin-offs, and I say that as a Luigi fan). However, both Cloud and Squall are main protagonists in their games (and none of them are spin-offs). You know, where I'm getting at?
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C_Mill24
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:04 am

TrinitroMan wrote:
That's not the same thing, though. Mario and Red are the main protagonists and their series and not Luigi and Nate (the only Mario games with Luigi as a main protagonist are just spin-offs, and I say that as a Luigi fan). However, both Cloud and Squall are main protagonists in their games (and none of them are spin-offs). You know, where I'm getting at?
While that is true, Mario has consistently been the star in his games while Cloud and Squall have been one-shots for the Final Fantasy series and have comeback through Kingdom Hearts more than likely for fan-service.
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:15 am

Wait, so if neither Cloud nor Squall suffice for the Final Fantasy spot, then who? Almost everyone in the Final Fantasy franchise was a one-shot.
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VultureDuck
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:22 am

TrinitroMan wrote:
Wait, so if neither Cloud nor Squall suffice for the Final Fantasy spot, then who? Almost everyone in the Final Fantasy franchise was a one-shot.
Black Mage, White Mage, Fighter, Theif, Dragoon, Cuccabo
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:27 am

Technically, Black Mage/White Mage/Fighter/Thief are one-shots as well, because in every Final Fantasy game, it is a different person who is a Black Mage/White Mage/Fighter/Thief.
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FrisbeeDoge
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:29 am

TrinitroMan wrote:
Technically, Black Mage/White Mage/Fighter/Thief are one-shots as well, because in every Final Fantasy game, it is a different person who is a Black Mage/White Mage/Fighter/Thief.
they're still recurring figures in the series and are popular character figures associated with it
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:38 am

Ugh...I still really only want to go back to them as a last resort. After all, I can still hope that Squall has at least SOME chances.
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Mellon
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:37 pm

True, true, Squall does still have some chances. I'll admit, even though I haven't finished KH yet I love Squall (That's Leon to you), he's my favorite character right now. However, his chances of appearing in the game is extremely slim. My other example was to put Pokemon Black/White 2's hero Nate into the game instead of Red/Blue's hero Red, simply because Nate is more powerful (Post game, that is). It simply doesn't work like that. Remember, those were also one-off's if you exclude remakes (FFVII is getting a remake btw (May already be out, not hip on the PS games)), and is otherwise added into the game because of fanservice. However, if we are going to put Squall in the game, I think we should focus equally as much on the "Gun" part of the "Gunblade". Why not have his side smash be a stream of bullets, like the Mii gunner's side smash?
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Smash King
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:53 pm


I'm not a Final Fantasy fan since I never played the games (kill me later), but I think even I'm aware that picking a protagonist to represent the entire franchise is not an easy feat.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't every protagonist have something interesting to offer?
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Nohrian Sadist



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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:56 pm

Smash King wrote:

I'm not a Final Fantasy fan since I never played the games (kill me later), but I think even I'm aware that picking a protagonist to represent the entire franchise is not an easy feat.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't every protagonist have something interesting to offer?

Yeah. Well except for Lightning.
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:12 am

Actually, Lightning offers just as much as Squall does given her sword that transforms into a gun and the wide array of abilities she has access to.  She also spanned 3 major titles compared to Squall's one, so really all i see in your claim there is personal bias because you probably didnt like FFXIII.  
Anyone who can get past the fact that it's gameplay is different from the other entries of the series should be able to appreciate it though, as there was a lot about the 13 series that was very good.  13-2 for example had in my opinion one of the greatest and best developed villains of the entire franchise.

A stream of bullets would not work for Squall, his gun is a Revolver not a machine gun.

The ffwiki has this to say about Squall's fighting style in Dissidia:
Quote :
Squall's fighting style is Relentless Revolver specializing in swift, multi-hit combo attacks that rapidly drain the opponent's Bravery and eventually break them. His melee attacks have low range, but execute quickly and do heavy damage. Even his magic attacks let him hit multiple times, and can set opponents up for melee strikes. He runs fast, though not as fast as characters like Tidus or Onion Knight. As a downside, Squall has few ranged attacks, and his magical abilities are only mid-ranged.

All of Squall's HP attacks (and he has no direct Bravery-to-HP combos) besides Lion Heart, require a moment to charge before attacking, giving the opponent time to dodge—but if the opponent fails to dodge, or if Squall properly uses an HP attack to punish a miss, the resulting hit can be a knockout blow due to Squall's ability to rapidly build Bravery.

Now, for some moveset stuff:

Spoiler:
 

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Forest Bug Productions
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:12 pm

Perfect Hell wrote:
Actually, Lightning offers just as much as Squall does given her sword that transforms into a gun and the wide array of abilities she has access to.  She also spanned 3 major titles compared to Squall's one, so really all i see in your claim there is personal bias because you probably didnt like FFXIII.  
Anyone who can get past the fact that it's gameplay is different from the other entries of the series should be able to appreciate it though, as there was a lot about the 13 series that was very good.  13-2 for example had in my opinion one of the greatest and best developed villains of the entire franchise.

A stream of bullets would not work for Squall, his gun is a Revolver not a machine gun.

The ffwiki has this to say about Squall's fighting style in Dissidia:
Quote :
Squall's fighting style is Relentless Revolver specializing in swift, multi-hit combo attacks that rapidly drain the opponent's Bravery and eventually break them. His melee attacks have low range, but execute quickly and do heavy damage. Even his magic attacks let him hit multiple times, and can set opponents up for melee strikes. He runs fast, though not as fast as characters like Tidus or Onion Knight. As a downside, Squall has few ranged attacks, and his magical abilities are only mid-ranged.

All of Squall's HP attacks (and he has no direct Bravery-to-HP combos) besides Lion Heart, require a moment to charge before attacking, giving the opponent time to dodge—but if the opponent fails to dodge, or if Squall properly uses an HP attack to punish a miss, the resulting hit can be a knockout blow due to Squall's ability to rapidly build Bravery.

Now, for some moveset stuff:

Spoiler:
 

I agree, but I think Lightning would be my FF candidate for Crusade
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:42 pm

Screw Lightning, she's overrated.
However, I fell in love with Perfect Hell's moveset idea, although I don't think that thunders would fit as a normal. If anything, it should be the Down B, because Blasting Zone might be way to OP.
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:52 pm

Balancing could handle Blasting Zone, and it's too signature to not have. Perhaps the spells could appear on side B in place of Revolver Drive, considering that's a made-up move from Dissidia? It could be a spell combo, consisting of Fire ball, Ice Bullet and Thunder

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Forest Bug Productions
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:54 pm

TrinitroMan wrote:
Screw Lightning, she's overrated.
However, I fell in love with Perfect Hell's moveset idea, although I don't think that thunders would fit as a normal. If anything, it should be the Down B, because Blasting Zone might be way to OP.

Well excuse me princess (Zelda cartoon reference nobody gets), but I thought trolling/flaming was outlawed here. I don't want to start a casual or competitive debates so keep your opinions to yourself please.
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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:56 pm

Forest Bug wrote:
TrinitroMan wrote:
Screw Lightning, she's overrated.
However, I fell in love with Perfect Hell's moveset idea, although I don't think that thunders would fit as a normal. If anything, it should be the Down B, because Blasting Zone might be way to OP.

Well excuse me princess (Zelda cartoon reference nobody gets), but I thought trolling/flaming was outlawed here. I don't want to start a casual or competitive debates so keep your opinions to yourself please.
Oh, sorry. I didn't knew I was not allowed to voice my opinion on my thread. [/sarcasm]
But yeah, let's just end it here and say that I'd rather want Squall instead, and if you want Lightning instead, then just do a thread there.
Perfect Hell wrote:
Balancing could handle Blasting Zone, and it's too signature to not have.
The question is: How to balance something like Blasting Zone and still keep it source accurate? My biggest gripe about Blasting Zone is the range. In a game like Dissidia, it is normal but in a game like Super Smash Bros, it is too good to be just a special.
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Nohrian Sadist



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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:33 am

Perfect Hell wrote:
Actually, Lightning offers just as much as Squall does given her sword that transforms into a gun and the wide array of abilities she has access to.  She also spanned 3 major titles compared to Squall's one, so really all i see in your claim there is personal bias because you probably didnt like FFXIII.  
Anyone who can get past the fact that it's gameplay is different from the other entries of the series should be able to appreciate it though, as there was a lot about the 13 series that was very good.  13-2 for example had in my opinion one of the greatest and best developed villains of the entire franchise.

I was actually joking, I enjoyed FFXIII tbh, even if I didn't have the drive to finish it. However if I had any doubt's about it's validity, you have cleared them for the most part. +1 for Lightning as a rep.
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FrisbeeDoge
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:35 am

TrinitroMan wrote:
Screw Lightning, she's overrated.
not really, she's more hated than anything
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:44 pm

XIII was a super-controversial title. This thread however is NOT about Lightning.

As for Blasting Zone, it could have a very long deliberate startup and long cooldown, as well as an inability to kill perhaps. It makes up for these drastic weaknesses in range/space coverage. It's really not hard to balance.

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TrinitroMan
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:26 am

Hmm...if we're going to way, then the energy part of Basting Zone should cause absolutely no knockback at all, because even during the start-up, there is still the vertical range.
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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:22 pm

So... Squall's okay, but Cloud isn't?

I understand fanboys will be fanboys, and that can be quite the deterrent, but... FFVII is far more relevant and influential than FFVIII was, even if it didn't age nearly as well. Plus, the protagonist was actually less emo in FFVII than in FFVIII; it took that awful Advent Children Hot Topic commercial to pretty him up a little. And to add to that... FFVII is getting a remake for modern consoles soon. So it's actually even more relevant now.

Not "un-supporting" Squall or anything, I actually like his Dissidia playstyle. It's just... Squall's okay, but Cloud isn't? That's confusing to me.


Last edited by Shiruza on Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Squall Leonhart (Final Fantasy 8)   Today at 10:17 am

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