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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:17 am

If there was a way to shorten the seesaw time it might work. The reason Sonic's spring works is that it's instant. Jim has to take the time to pull out a weight and put it on the other side. I don't think finding a unique up special is THAT important when there are only so many things you can do to help recovery, so an inflated head isn't too bad. Doesn't feel very Jim-esque, though.

Perhaps about the gun switching, but I don't think Jim could switch weapons at will in his original games. It would be an interesting mechanic you have to keep track of, something to make him more unique.
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TaXMaN
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:06 am

Roy wrote:
If there was a way to shorten the seesaw time it might work. The reason Sonic's spring works is that it's instant. Jim has to take the time to pull out a weight and put it on the other side. I don't think finding a unique up special is THAT important when there are only so many things you can do to help recovery, so an inflated head isn't too bad. Doesn't feel very Jim-esque, though.

Perhaps about the gun switching, but I don't think Jim could switch weapons at will in his original games. It would be an interesting mechanic you have to keep track of, something to make him more unique.

Fox and Falco's Up B also takes time to execute. Jim's Up B can be shortened by reducing the time he lifts up the weight to two seconds. The weight itself should not take long to land on the other side of the seesaw either (Jim doesn't have to toss it that high into the air).

Jim couldn't switch through his guns at all in his games but is it really that unoriginal for him to be able to switch between his guns at will? I don't know of anyone in the crusade cast who switches between attacks with their Down B (unless you count Megaman but that got removed obviously).
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Smash King
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:19 pm

I think the inflated head can work if done right. Lets say this. Jim inflates his head by placing his thump in his mouth and blowing into it. He then floats around. If attacked while floating, his head deflates and he is spinning 360 degree angle before plummeting down to a helpless state. The rotation acts as an unintentional offense for Jim to give him some sort of advantage since the recovery is rather slow. He doesn't do the rotation if he deflates on its own.

I can also agree with Roy concerning the issue with Seesaw as an Up B. Him struggling to carry and throw the weight is the humor of the character.
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:48 pm

The issue with switching weapons with vB is that it's a concept that's been tossed around quite a bit (Mega Man and Sora in SSF2, Mega Man here). While it usually never lasts in the end, it's probably best to avoid it if possible. I think it would be best if he only had 2 projectiles - He has a few plasma shots, which after they are used up he has to resort to the normal gun for a short time (like Bronze Sword vs Levin Sword for Robin). The normal gun would have unlimited ammo here. It's not like he's losing an option - generally, the plasma would be the best option.

I think we can work the seesaw (seeing how iconic it is) into his forward smash (the whip should probably be related to his tilts or normal A). Let's say his fsmash involved a seesaw appearing under him and he throws a weight forward onto the other side. The weight itself hitting the opponent constitutes the forward smash, but Jim is sent into the air regardless. This serves a purpose competitively, as it allows the attack to be difficult to punish (most would simply roll to the other side or shield+grab, but that won't work).


For Up Special... the inflatable head is probably the best option. He'll usually recover via the rocket anyways, so this is just a last-resort upward recovery. The only other good option I can think of would be Snot related - just have him send Snot upwards at an angle, like Olimar's and ZSS' Brawl recovery as a tether.
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TaXMaN
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:13 am

After thinking the facts through I can't do anything but agree with you both. The 360 degree spin head deflation idea has Earthworm Jim written all over it! I also love the fsmash idea with the seesaw. I think Jim's head whip attack should change to his fTilt then. The gun idea Roy just mentioned above could also work. That only leaves us with one problem, though. What should Jim's down B be?
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Johnny64



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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:20 am

Down B could possibly be his Whip, being a Tether Recovery? on the ground it would help as ranged attack, to space the enemie
Also, i agree with all the ideas up ^
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Smash King
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:26 pm

Using his head as a whip for his tilt attacks makes sense to me. It can even be used for his rapid jabs.

I don't think him using his whip for Down B would work. I would suggest something funny, but effective. Perhaps there is a way he can use the infamous cows.

Also, I got an interesting idea for his Dash Attack. What if he was to use his bouncing pad from "Puppy Love" in Earthworm Jim 2? He does a short leap forward and slightly trips. If the opponent is hit by the front end of the bouncing pad, they are hit like any usual dash attack. However, cause of the nature of the bouncing pad, the opponent would take less damage and more knockback due to the bounce. If Jim uses the Dash Attack on an opponent who is falling from above, the opponent is launched back up. Launching them upward would allow Jim to either follow up with a air attack or shooting upward with his gun, thus creating a 2-hit combo. Here is the video of the bounce pad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_KfTchsqDM

As for the Seesaw, makes sense for a FSmash. To make it more beneficial, if opponent is hit by the anvil, they are launched upward. Since Jim is also being sent upward since he is on the other end of the SeeSaw, Jim is sent up with the opponent. While opponent is stunned from the hit of the anvil, this allows Jim to follow up with an air attack for a 2-hit combo as well.

EDIT:

Not sure if this is a good idea or not, but I would like to share it. What if we add this gimmick where Jim's head separates from his suit after taking a certain amount of damage? His suit is left where Jim was last hit, while you are playing as his head and hopping around the stage. This allows Jim to have better speed, mobility, and more rapid hits. However, this makes him twice as weak and easily KO'd. Whoever is playing as Jim as 2 following options.....

1. Take advantage of your speed, mobility, and rapid hits to get some quick damage in.

2. Run back to where the suit was last hit and get back in the suit to avoid being easily KO'd in your "head" form.

When in "head" state, Jim's suit can be attacked and launched by opponents to prevent Jim's head from getting back into the suit. This makes the whole situation tons more funnier to see a headless space suit get thrown around like a rag doll while Jim's head is either trying to get back into the suit or fighting as his head against the opponents from further launching the suit away from him.

Go to 4:15 to see his Head state or Suitless state, whatever you want to call it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APGK3SOyGhM

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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:45 pm

Perfect dash attack idea, I love it.

Cows with the down special... Maybe it just drops a cow where he's at when he uses the move. Kind of like Pikachu's thunder, except from the top of the screen and always has downward knockback.

I can imagine that Fsmash being more useful, but it doesn't make sense. A giant anvil smacks you in the face and you go upward? Then again, Jim in general doesn't make sense...
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Smash King
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:04 pm


Doesn't Bowser's Down B send opponents flying upward as well? So in the sense of Smash Bros., wouldn't the idea of an anvil sending you flying upward make sense as well?

Or perhaps, have the anvil send you flying diagonally upward while Jim is launched the same direction. Logically, getting launched by a Seesaw would naturally send you flying diagonally upward. Though that logic barely applies in the Earthworm Jim games, the logic of a diagonally upward launch can be implemented into the Smash world.
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:48 pm

Hm, I guess it's fine then (for the anvil to send them up). I don't think Jim should go at an angle with the seesaw, it might feel a bit awkward in-game.
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Smash King
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:10 pm

You know, thinking about it now. Alot of Smash players usually rely on Smash attacks to get a quick kill in after racking damage. Seesaw kinda takes away that reliability due to its quirkiness. Maybe its better off as a Down B attack.

I just got another idea for the Seesaw. Lets say we have it as a Down B attack. Its kinda the same idea as before, but a bit more strategic. This move can be a multi-step attack similar to Villager's Tree. It works like this.

Press Down B. He sets up a Seesaw. It takes like a second or two. He simply throws it down in front of him. After its set, Jim can continue fighting freely similar to how Villager can run around freely after planting a seed. The Seesaw is now a diagonal mini-platform.

Press Down B again and Jim will pull out an anvil and launch it in front of him at short distance. If the anvil lands on the higher half of the Seesaw, it triggers the other side to quickly move up. If an opponent is standing on the opposite side of the anvil when it lands on the higher half of the Seesaw, the opponent is launched up and takes damage. If you drop the anvil on the lower half instead, the Seesaw will break. Keep in mind that the Seesaw can only be visible on the stage for a short period of time.

The bonus to this attack is that Jim can just use the Anvil freely without needing to throw it on the Seesaw. He can throw it forward to act as a heavy projectile similar to Villager's bowling ball. If you use the Anvil in-air, he will drop it under him to perform a meteor smash attack / projectile.

As for a new Side Smash, perhaps he can use that massive brick-like gun that explodes everything on the screen in his official game. Except, it will only explode what is in front of him at a distance.

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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:16 pm

That was the purpose of having the anvil send them sideways... but your idea seems better and suits Jim more. Same with the side smash.

Only thing I'd add to your idea is a 10% chance to throw a cow instead of an anvil, just to make it more Jim-like.
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Smash King
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:58 pm


I like that idea with the cow.
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TaXMaN
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:33 am

These ideas are GROOVY! The dash attack just works (yet another reference to EWJ2)! Okay, NOW I see how the seesaw can work for Down B. Just one thing to add, though. It would be pretty tricky to launch an opponent off the seesaw because you have to get him/her on the lower side AND toss the weight on the higher side to accomplish this.

So how about adding some glue (or some other sticky substance, like the character Slime) to the lower side of the seesaw. That way you can make an opponent stick to the seesaw for a few seconds (if they were to walk over or land on the lower side) and still have a chance to toss the weight on the higher side before the opponent escapes. If the trapped opponent escapes they'll jump upwards into the air (similar to the way how they break free from grabs).

The weight, as a projectile, should deal decent damage to opponents but its knockback should also be limited. However, if an opponent is launched via seesaw he/she won't take much damage but will be launched much further away. (which could KO opponents vertically at moderate to high percentages).

I also like the cow idea and the new side smash!

EDIT: Oh and the meteor smash idea with the weight sounds great! I should probably update my post with the new drastic changes in Jim's moveset. Unfortunately, I'm currently busy with exams so it will be postponed until Monday or Tuesday.
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:44 am

We could just make the seesaw launch extremely powerful (perhaps KOing at even something low like 20%), but your idea sounds more practical.

.... on second thought, the anvil causing a meteor smash sounds really overpowered. Mega Man's Hard Knuckle is only ok because it's small, has a short range, and only meteors far away from him so you have to space properly.
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TaXMaN
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:09 pm

Roy wrote:
.... on second thought, the anvil causing a meteor smash sounds really overpowered. Mega Man's Hard Knuckle is only ok because it's small, has a short range, and only meteors far away from him so you have to space properly.
Yeah, you're probably right.
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Smash King
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:48 am


Earthworm Jim is one of those quirky characters you would want to see on your roster, thats for sure. lol.
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TaXMaN
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:44 am

@SK: Couldn't agree more! Smile

Btw I've updated Jim's moveset description with the new changes (2 days later than I've promised but it's done).
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Spoon300
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:34 am

I bet it won't be long until Earthworm Jim makes his appearance!
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TaXMaN
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:16 am

Spoon300 wrote:
I bet it won't be long until Earthworm Jim makes his appearance!
It would be awesome if he makes it in! I counted 8 people who supports Jim (excluding myself and assuming you're supporting him too) and no votes that's against him (atleast what I know of). I also noticed that this topic has more replies and views than other characters' (minus the AT and Pokeball threads).
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Gab3
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:18 pm

I support him too
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Keybladeguy
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:13 pm

He's got my support.
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Pakeli
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:03 am

He's got my support.
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Smash King
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:23 am

I see that Alucard is the one who made this thread. Is the moveset up-to-date on this thread for him?
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TaXMaN
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:15 am

Nope, it's my first version of Jim's moveset that replaced Alucard's post. Could one of the mods update the moveset to the newest version, please? Here's the latest version below:

A pic of Jim:
 

Allow me to give a FULL explanation on Earthworm Jim.

First appearance: Earthworm Jim (1994)

Last appearance: Earthworm Jim 3D (1999)

Jim is a video game character known from the 90's. He appeared on several Nintendo systems including the SNES, Game Boy, Game Boy Advance and the Nintendo 64. Jim even appeared as a playable character in Clayfigher 63 1/3 for the N64. EWJ was portrayed as a clumsy but determined super hero. When evil was around, he was the one to save the day! From saving Princess Whats-Her-Name from Queen Slug-For-A-Butt to escorting Peter Puppy to his house.

The story behind Earthworm Jim:
 

Earthworm Jim's moveset:
 

So what do you guys think?
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Smash King
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:12 pm

Updated the OP with TaxMan's post.
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TaXMaN
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:57 pm

Thanks SK!
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Smash King
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:22 pm

I'm not not fond of the Down Smash attack. How does this attack do damage in front and behind him?
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Moats
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:33 pm

Support
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TaXMaN
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:32 pm

@SK: Basically, Jim holds the cow parallel to the floor. That way the cow's length can reach both in front and behind Jim.
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PostSubject: Re: Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim) Discussion   Today at 11:54 pm

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