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 Goku's kamehameha

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Mouth
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PostSubject: Goku's kamehameha   Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:16 pm

Is he working as intended? his kamehameha seems ridiculous IMO, full screen power hitter. Easily spammed. We did a 10 man tourney and 2 people picked out goku for that reason and took the win.
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Smash King
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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:19 pm

His down B attack is also something I find very cheap. All I see from most players are his Neutral B (until the opponent is far distanced) then its Down B charging. That is all I see most players doing. I feel Goku is a cheap character and hard to take serious for competitive play due to these things.
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Mouth
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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:21 pm

Smash King wrote:
His down B attack is also something I find very cheap. All I see from most players are his Neutral B (until the opponent is far distanced) then its Down B charging. That is all I see most players doing. I feel Goku is a cheap character and hard to take serious for competitive play due to these things.

I completely agree, I mean he is well done as a character; sprite and all. He is just kind of (like you said) "cheap"
I mean the kamehameha is obviously one of his main moves in the show so it seems necessary. Maybe just alot less hit stun or even removing the power hits from it. Its kind of ridiculous it can just kill you around 80-100%

Edit; I can't think of many other projectile like this. I thought porky was OP till I fought all these goku's lmfao.
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Johnny64



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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:44 pm

But it can be easily shielded, so there´s no much problem, but i agree, maybe make his Kamehameha to be charged? only that he cannot save the Charge, and for his Down B, IDK
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Dry



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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:42 am

Competitively speaking, Goku's actually quite low down on our "tier list". Kamehameha is, as Johnny says, easy to shield, or on any stage with platforms you can just jump over it. Kaio-Ken is even easier to deal with, just keep running around and avoiding Goku, and he'll just end up on higher damage without any benefit to himself.
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MercuryHg34



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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:31 am

That said, the Balancing Team has worked on fixing the "cheapness" (I hate that word to be honest, but it make the conversasion easier to follow) of Goku so that he is at least fun to play in a casual setting.
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Mouth
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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:51 am

Yes, goku's kamehameha is easily blocked as anything is. Also wasn't saying he was very high on the tier list. With the multiple hits from it, shields are easily broken. With the knock off capability/range casually it becomes overused/spammed. Competitively it becomes high priority because of the fact it can trade with every projectile in the game and almost always come out on top. Aside from duck hunter dog's disk, that things SO good. Kaio-Ken is definitely easy to deal with, short jumping over it near the ledge almost always kills goku. Its spike capability with its over-B is definitely ridiculous though if used right XD

I would like to hear what makes him "low tier"
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Dry



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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:26 am

Few combos catchphrase of the competitive scene... and pretty easy to kill.
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Traweezie



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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:32 pm

Mouth wrote:
Its spike capability with its over-B is definitely ridiculous though if used right XD


Pro Tip: If you have a noob-ish Goku using the kaio-ken spike stand next to the ledge and block. 9/10 they will spam the move so much it kills themselves.

Also about the kameha you can also jump over it. If you move while jumping you probably punish depending on your character
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Perfect Hell



  Evil Ryu
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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:59 pm

In competitive play, the move is really bad. It will likely get shielded or jumped over every time, and at closer ranges that means a punish. Since it's his only long range threat, you also generally know it's coming if you're far away because, what else? That makes it even easier to jump over, which Goku can do nothing to prevent you from doing successfully. Edge guarding is it's only great use.

In multiplayer, casual settings is where we find problems. It's much easier to successfully spam when no one is paying close attention to what you are doing. In a hectic environment, it's too easy for a Goku to just spam it and hit everyone.

That said, plenty has been done to hurt the move. Currently on the build we bring to gaming events, it is much less powerful in knockback, i think it deals less damage, it takes longer to come out and it has a very noticeable increase to it's ending lag. Unfortunately we can't do anything at the moment about it reaching full screen or going through walls, but at least it's less of a spam threat in multiplayer. Goku will have a resprite/revamp coming and that will bring new Kamehameha mechanics more akin to what you find in the current version of SSF2, though tweaked because honestly that version is just outright bad competitively and casually. By 0.9 hopefully we'll have a beam that everyone can be happy with, rest assured the balancing team is working on it.

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♠ Ace ♠
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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:33 pm

Just jump over it :I
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UltraMikeManTheBo$$
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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:43 pm

Yeah I think that it is not that tough to avoid in my opinion when he says kamehameha that should be a sign to shield are jump over it. Make him take more time to perform it like in the anime he would say KA ME HA ME HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. There would be a delay with each syllable. I can agree to the fact that it is a little over powered but not by a big margin. As well for his kaioken just make it last for a really really short amount of time so they are not powered up for to long.
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Mouth
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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:39 pm

More or less I was wondering if it was working as intended and if it is something I will have to get used too. First time hoping on the game it just seemed rather good. Especially with the knock-off capability and strengths it has with edge guarding. I probably definitely need some more practice fighting him seeing as everyone in the area I play in is flocking to him. Even people that don't know anything about DBZ. He is just generally decent for newish players.

Plus IMO tiers are subjective. I've watched people win tournaments with low tier chars in all fighting games. Most low tier chars have some method or way to either be cheap or used relatively well.

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Dry



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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:43 pm

Oh of course, we agree. In a well-balanced game, the tier list shouldn't be an indication of who's gonna win, or which character you should use. It's descriptive, not prescriptive. It's supposed to be a theoretical idea of which characters will win if both players are at equal and high-level skill. In real life this is rarely the case.

As for beating Kamehameha, an easy way to stop it is to use a reflector. The easiest ones to use are Fox and Falco's, maybe you could try that in your next tourney.
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Doqtor Kirby
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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:45 pm

Dry wrote:
In real life this is rarely the case.
Look at Traweezie for instance.

Ok that was a little off topic.
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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:32 pm

Here's an excerpt of a suggestion that I posted regarding my dissatisfaction regarding SSF2 Goku's moveset in general, but I think it serves a purpose here. ...Especially considering it was ignored completely.
(Keep in mind that by "current charges" I'm referring to the Kamehameha's function in SSF2. This could be adapted to his new improvements.)
"...the Kamehameha and Ki Blasts. While yes, they are staple moves in the DBZ franchise, I personally feel that they could be better utilized. How? Well, we'd fuse them, of course.
Currently, an uncharged Kamehameha wave is pretty much just a little pathetic sliver of beam energy, not anything you'd expect to see in DBZ.
Keeping this in mind, plus the fact that an uncharged Kamehameha is actually a projectile and not a beam (like the Hadouken), this could be replaced with an uncharged Ki-Blast. By mashing the special button instead of charging it, it could replicate the same effect as the current Ki-Blast.
When charged to the next level, it would become slightly faster and gain explosive properties, similar to Snake's rocket launcher.
When almost fully charged, it would be a multi-hitting projectile version of the Kamehameha that is faster than a charged Ki-Blast.
Finally, when fully charged, it would be the current fully charged version of the Kamehameha.
The time between charges would be the same as the current Kamehameha, and since each charge counts as a delay I imagine that spamming charged Ki-Blasts and uncharged Kamehameha's wouldn't be too much of a problem in execution."
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Perfect Hell



  Evil Ryu
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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:35 pm

Cool suggestion, and while our upcoming Goku moveset is not SSF2 or the 0.8.4 one, I could see that fitting well with what we did, not to mention it IS canonical. No guarantees but I'll say for now that it will be considered.

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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Goku's kamehameha   Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:55 pm

If I may slightly diverge for a moment to add to the possibilities, my suggestion also leaves room for a new S-Spec. If possible, I'd suggest a more "Goku" S-Spec that involves teleportation combos of some sort, like a watered-down and balanced Kaio-Ken D-Spec.
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