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 Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.

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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:05 pm

Chrom... wouldn't bring anything new?
While the shield *is* something new, I don't think that would matter in Smash's case.
Falco and Wolf wouldn't have brought anything new that Fox didn't, and the same can be said for Toon Link and Young Link.

But, Crusade switched that around and applied newer abilities and unique moves that separated them from their previous, less original counterparts. If they weren't unique before, then by your (Smash King's) logic, they should have been removed completely instead of altered. So why were they kept? Because they were necessary for a complete roster. Why *shouldn't* we include a character to represent the latest and most popular entry in the FE franchise? It would make the game feel more up-to-date and complete overall anyway. Also, we know at least one main character from Awakening is getting in SSB4 anyway thanks to Arena Ferox's appearances in the screenshots.

Besides, Chrom's fighting style is much different than any of the other FE fighters in the roster, even Ike, and his different abilities introduced in Awakening gives him potential for a drastically different moveset than the other characters. I won't even get started on the tag-team functionality and emphasis on teamwork in Awakening as well, since you guys tend to hate newer tag-team characters because it requires more coding and spritework (which is understandable, but it's basically what you're doing anyway by making a roster of 80+ characters).
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:15 pm

What "different abilities" are you referring to? And also, in which ways is his fighting style different?
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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:43 pm

Chrom is less loose and fluid than Marth and Roy, but less rigid and weighty than Ike. He also uses a shield during battle, overall fighting more like a chivalrous knight with a Fire Emblem twist rather than a fencer or a brawler.

The "abilities" I mentioned refer to the different in-game abilities issued to and triggered at random by certain classes and characters in the game's combat engine.

For example: Rightful King, Aegis, Luna, Aether (though also used by Ike, Chrom executes it much differently), Dual Strike, etc.

To add, an offensive ability unique to the player's avatar in Awakening is Ignis, which is a rising slash engulfed in flaming sakura petals. Though it is exclusive to the avatar, it can be "Sakurai'd" in as homage to the Avatar's importance, similar to Ness and Lucas. This is optional, though, and would not be required to make Chrom a full moveset.
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Smash King
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:13 pm

Shiruza wrote:
Chrom... wouldn't bring anything new?
While the shield *is* something new, I don't think that would matter in Smash's case.
Falco and Wolf wouldn't have brought anything new that Fox didn't, and the same can be said for Toon Link and Young Link.

But, Crusade switched that around and applied newer abilities and unique moves that separated them from their previous, less original counterparts. If they weren't unique before, then by your (Smash King's) logic, they should have been removed completely instead of altered. So why were they kept? Because they were necessary for a complete roster. Why *shouldn't* we include a character to represent the latest and most popular entry in the FE franchise? It would make the game feel more up-to-date and complete overall anyway. Also, we know at least one main character from Awakening is getting in SSB4 anyway thanks to Arena Ferox's appearances in the screenshots.

Besides, Chrom's fighting style is much different than any of the other FE fighters in the roster, even Ike, and his different abilities introduced in Awakening gives him potential for a drastically different moveset than the other characters. I won't even get started on the tag-team functionality and emphasis on teamwork in Awakening as well, since you guys tend to hate newer tag-team characters because it requires more coding and spritework (which is understandable, but it's basically what you're doing anyway by making a roster of 80+ characters).

Most of the characters you mentioned (Toon Link & Falco) were added for reasons unrelated to decloning & such. Toon Link was added before our current Dev Team started to handle this project. Falco in the other hand was added cause we had intended to return all veteran characters (excluding Young Link) when the roster was still public.

Also, just because Arena Ferox is confirmed for SSB4 doesn't necessarily mean we will get an Awakening character. For all we know, we may just end up getting Marth in his Awakening designs instead of the newer characters. So unconfirmed information doesn't really help with that logic.

Lets review 4 of Chrom's abilities first.
- Dual Strike +
- Aether
- Charm
- Rightful King

Now, excluding Aether, the rest of Chrom's abilities are mainly Support-based things. Unless Chrom is paired with someone as a duo character, 3/4 of his abilities don't have a purpose to exist in his playstyle in smash. As for Aether alone, I would assume he will use Luna part of the time while Sol will have lets say a 20% of healing him. So far, that might be the only unique thing he can offer. Then there is also the ability for him to use a lance as well.

The thing that turns off the idea of Chrom is that he is another protagonist who is a lord, a class that both Marth & Roy already share.

As for the villain role, I think Robin/Grima would be an interesting choice as well. Since both Robin & Grima are one in the same, that can give us a Tactician, Awakening main character, & a villain.
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Keven
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:56 pm

In the Candidate Cut Poll i was the only one who vote keep Robin yay!
Robin is generally a magic user in cutscene but in the game he can also use Sword in Awakening since a Magic User with a sword is more original that Chrom also Chrom Lord Sword User even with a shield Chrom best attack Aether is the same as Ike for Robin its Ignis nobody else have this skill i mean in Smash Marth Roy or Ike dont have Ignis .
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KeybladeSmasher
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:04 pm

Chrom < Lucina < No more Fire Emblem reps < Lyn
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Smash King
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:08 pm


Are you saying that Lyn is a higher priority than all those by fact or personal opinion?
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C_Mill24
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:17 pm

Smash King wrote:

Are you saying that Lyn is a higher priority than all those by fact or personal opinion?
I'm guessing personal opinion.
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GigaPichu

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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:30 pm

all the people who really dont know squat about FE want Lyn for some reason.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:43 pm

GigaPichu wrote:
all the people who really dont know squat about FE want Lyn for some reason.
Why must Assist Trophies be at much higher priority than characters that would actually fit better in Smash to represent the series?
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:51 pm

C_Mill24 wrote:
GigaPichu wrote:
all the people who really dont know squat about FE want Lyn for some reason.
Why must Assist Trophies be at much higher priority than characters that would actually fit better in Smash to represent the series?
Lazy people who don't wanna do their homework look for what they can find easily instead of something that actually works a lot better.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:22 pm

It's personal opinion.

I just like the character over characters like Chrom, Hector, Sothe, and even Roy.
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Dry



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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:40 am

Gonna reply to a couple of things in Shiruza's post.

- Now I don't know how much FE9/10 you've played, maybe you haven't, maybe you have, I dunno. But the idea that Ike is "rigid and weighty" comes purely from the Sakurai'd version seen in Brawl, a version that we're not necessarily keeping, and probably won't be for the sake of balance. In his own games, Ike moves as fluidly as Chrom; he's the sole character of the mercenary class in that game, a class that Chrom's Lord class is pretty much based on. As far as playstyle goes, Chrom is very likely to be a mirror image of Ike.

- The skills are less moves and more constant abilities. Dual Strike isn't a flashy move, it's a constant effect that gives Chrom a higher chance of hitting a standard double hit. Rightful King is even worse, it just makes the other skills more likely to activate. Luna would only be obtained if Chrom class changes into a Great Knight, so adding that would be pretty Sakurai'd.

- And finally, if we're gonna take Sakurai'ing into the equation, Chrom is prossibly the least Sakurai'able character out of these options here. Anna has been in the majority of the series; she can take something from every game she's been in. Generally we should avoid Sakurai'ing, but if it's a factor then Chrom offers very little uniqueness compared to the others.
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Keven
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:14 am

Here is a list of all Main Protagonist of the Fire Emblem series that is not in Smash ( I did not Count Radiant Dawn beacause i consider Ike the Main protagonist but if you want you can add Micaiah )

Alm : Fighter - Sword User & Cecilia : Priestess - Magic & Sword User ( Appear In 1 Game as both Main Protagonist : Fire Emblem Gaiden )

Sigurd : Knight Lord - Horse Sword User and he can use Lance & Seliph : Junior Lord - Sword User ( Appear In 1 Games as both Main Protagonist of : Fire Emblem Genealogy of the Holy War )

Leaf : - Lord - Sword User ( Appear In 1 Game as the Main Protagonist : Fire Emblem: Thracia 776 )


Eliwood - Lord - Sword User & Lyn - Lord Sword User and she can use Bow & Hector Lord - Axe User ( Appear In 1 Game as The 3 Main Protagonist of : Fire Emblem Blazing Sword )

Eirika - Lord Sword User & Ephraim - Lord - Lance User ( Appear In 1 Games as both the main Protagonist of 1 Games : Fire Emblem The Sacred Stones )

Chrom - Lord - Sword User and he can use Lance & Robin - Tactician - Magic & Sword User ( Appear In 1 Games as Both the Main Protagonist of Fire Emblem Awakening )

Lord - Sword User : Seliph,Leaf,Eliwood,Lyn,Eirika,Chrom + Marth & Roy if you count Smash

Fighter - Sword User : Alm

Lord - Axe User : Hector

Lord - Lance User : Ephraim

Knight Lord - Horse Sword User : Sigurd

Priestess - Magic & Sword User : Cecilia

Tatician - Magic & Sword User : Robin

All the character are consider Base Class

The Problem is that all of them are the Main Protagonist Of 1 Game and everybody except Alm Cecilia and Robin are Lord if you want another Lord Sword User i would choose Chrom but for uniqueness i would choose Robin beacause he can use something other than a sword ( Magic ) but also beacause he is not a Lord Ephraim and Hector use Lance and Axe but they are Lord so ... Robin or Cecilia if you want i just choose Robin beacause that i love to play Awakening .
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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:31 am

Robin's the avatar, however, so the nature of character designs would make him to inconsistent with the character designs that the player would have chosen. The Animal Crossing Villager would be an exception, since he is featured on the cover of a few Animal Crossing games and the design of the avatar in Animal Crossing is always consistent with certain traits displayed in the default avatar.

Awakening allows the player to choose their gender, voice, face, hair style & color, body build, class, main weapon, etc. It's much more vast in possibilities, and the default avatar would not properly represent the player's avatar in Awakening.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:09 am

the default villager was used, so Robin may be more likely than you think.

players of FE may even be able to submit their own into the game
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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:24 am

Read again what I said about the Villager in my last post.
His design is very typical to the avatars in Animal Crossing, and most key traits are present. Said design is also shown on multiple covers of Animal Crossing games and is shown to be the official design.

While "Robin" has a default name and design, his/her details are not canon, not even his/her name, and thus cannot be properly shown without some form of alienation of design. For example, while your Animal Crossing avatar can be different in details such as hair design and color, sex, and outfit, the basic traits (enlarged eyes, round hands, simple anatomy, small figure, spherical head, etc.) are always present. Again, however, the avatar in Awakening consists of not only hair style and color, sex, and outfit, but also facial structure, voice, body figure, key abilities, and key weapons.
Therefore the Villager's inclusion does not warrant the Avatar's inclusion, since the Villager's design features pale in comparison to the possibilities in FE:A.

Chrom also slightly outranks the Avatar in importance, as even though the Avatar is present the entirety of the game, the only reason that this is is because he/she is your gateway to experience the story and world personally. Chrom is also present for the entirety of the game, and is one of the only characters that cannot be removed from your party in important battles (keep in mind that not even the Avatar holds this honor). Again, Chrom is also the map marker, wields the Fire Emblem itself, and is the only wielder of the Exalted Falchion which is the key weapon of the game. Also, while the Avatar can defeat the final boss, so can Chrom, having them both share a level of importance in that scene.

Since they both share the most important scenes, yet Chrom has many more important factors over the Avatar, that Chrom is more important than even the player avatar and thus is the Protagonist.
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Smash King
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:36 pm


I just realized that a poll was never added to this thread.

Shiruza, can you add a poll when you get the chance?
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Smash King
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:23 pm

So, it seems like a poll was never added and there has been mixed reactions concerning this character. Since there hasn't been any further discussions, I'll lock this topic and Chrom won't be available as Fire Emblem's 2nd rep on Suggestion Poll. Therefore, the character can't be suggested for another 4-6 months.

Locked.
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