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 Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.

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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:19 am

Since you are now taking character suggestions, I figured I'd try this again one last time.
Don't worry, I'll make it shorter than my last post

Chrom is the main character of the latest Fire Emblem game, and since Arena Ferox is confirmed via screenshots for SSB4, he is most likely in SSB4.
"Why Chrom?" You ask. "Why not, say, Lucina? Or Raven?"
Because Chrom is the closest thing to a main character. While Raven is your avatar, and Lucina also shares the spot of main character, Chrom is the first character aside from you avatar to be introduced in Fire Emblem: Awakening. He's the map marker, he's the leader of the Shepherds (the patchwork band of heroes you are a member of), he's the one to receive both the Fire Emblem and the Divine Falchion (which Lucina cannot use, FYI), and he's the only one of two characters who can defeat the "Big Bad" at the end of the game, with the other character being your avatar.

Chrom would only make sense. He's obviously a newcomer, he's the main character of the most recent entry in the Fire Emblem series (which not to mention is also the most popular entry in the Fire Emblem series), and his shield tactics would be a breath of fresh air from all of the other Fire Emblem characters. While yes, he does wield the same sword as Marth, he not only uses it differently but also uses an entirely different model which has been reshaped over centuries of care and forging, so really it's more of an entirely different blade than a copy. This is also a prime example of Chrom over Lucina, since Lucina wields it like a rapier, similar to Marth, while Chrom uses it more like a broadsword.

"Well, why not use Anna, the current CrusaDLC character, instead of Chrom?" Because Anna makes more sense as a DLC character. Whereas Chrom is a definite Newcomer to the next Smash Bros and is all of what was listed above, Anna is merely one of many of the iconic merchant twin sisters that appear in Fire Emblem. While Anna's appearances span almost all Fire Emblem games, she's less of a representative of one specific game and more of a staple character "tribe" or "clan" (since there are millions of them) to the series, like the Chocobos to Final Fantasy.

Having Chrom in the roster would complete the Fire Emblem series and, in my opinion, would give me another reason to consider Crusade to be superior to other Smash games, official or not. I'd love to his inclusion, and again, he would make perfect sense to include.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:45 am

To be fair, I'd rather have Lucina.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:56 am

But she wouldn't make as much sense, since she's not as much of the main character

Well, there is a heavy emphasis on teamwork in Fire Emblem: Awakening... would it be stretching it to consider them to tag out, like Zelda into Shiek or the Pokémon trainer?
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:48 am

C_Mill24 wrote:
To be fair, I'd rather have Lucina.

This. In stance for Fire Emblem it be nice to have a female character or non sword user.
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Shiruza
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:14 pm

But then we don't have the main character. Again, having a tag function would satisfy both needs, and I wouldn't imagine it to be too tasking in terms of programming considering it's already been done and will be done twice more.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:27 pm

That's not a programming issue, it's a spriting issue. You're asking for 2 characters to be added rather than one, whether or not they take up one slot on the selection screen. It's also one more character's moveset to be coded, and one more character to balance.

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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:29 pm

Shiruza wrote:
But then we don't have the main character. Again, having a tag function would satisfy both needs, and I wouldn't imagine it to be too tasking in terms of programming considering it's already been done and will be done twice more.
Technically, Lucina is a main character, but if you want to go into huge technicalities, the avatar would be the main character.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:41 pm

You guys are aware that it's possible for a game to have more than one "main" character, right?

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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:44 pm

As stated before, Chrom is the map marker.
Aside from the Avatar, he is the first character seen.
He is the only character who receives the Fire Emblem.
He is the only character who receives the Exalted Falchion.
He is the main companion to the Avatar, and is the only other character other than the Avatar to be able to defeat the final boss.

Chrom is more of a protagonist than Lucina, even if she is one of the most important characters. Since Lucina is also very similar to Marth in terms of fighting style, Chrom earns points for uniqueness.

As for the Avatar, that's just it. Raven's the avatar, a customizable character of which the player is supposed to associate with themselves and use as the vessel to interact with the environment the game has set for them. While it works with the Animal Crossing Villager (since they are all more or less universally similar in design, function and style), the Avatar in FE:A spans multiple genders, sizes, ages, classes, and personalities. It just wouldn't work, it'd be like treating certain relationships as canon and having everyone told that what they made happen wasn't true.

And again, it doesn't matter because they could tag out in battle if we become too indecisive.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:52 pm

Suggestion Poll doesn't add characters to the main roster. It's for, well, suggestions.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:59 pm

Shiruza wrote:
As stated before, Chrom is the map marker.
Aside from the Avatar, he is the first character seen.
He is the only character who receives the Fire Emblem.
He is the only character who receives the Exalted Falchion.
He is the main companion to the Avatar, and is the only other character other than the Avatar to be able to defeat the final boss.

Chrom is more of a protagonist than Lucina, even if she is one of the most important characters. Since Lucina is also very similar to Marth in terms of fighting style, Chrom earns points for uniqueness.

As for the Avatar, that's just it. Raven's the avatar, a customizable character of which the player is supposed to associate with themselves and use as the vessel to interact with the environment the game has set for them. While it works with the Animal Crossing Villager (since they are all more or less universally similar in design, function and style), the Avatar in FE:A spans multiple genders, sizes, ages, classes, and personalities. It just wouldn't work, it'd be like treating certain relationships as canon and having everyone told that what they made happen wasn't true.

And again, it doesn't matter because they could tag out in battle if we become too indecisive.

Look I'm going to be realistic. While having more uniqueness is nice and whatnot, the problem lies within the spriters and coders. Lemme ask you this, do you think the spriters and coders will have a better and easier time with a character very similar to another one in the roster?
I'm positive you know what the answer will be. You can say yeah wasted slot, but honestly, we could use a female Fire Emblem character or at least a non sword user. But since a non sword user requires more work and Chrom requiring less work yet more work than Lucina, + with the addition of a female Fire Emblem character I can say it's definitely a win win situation. With Spriters + Coders dropping out of the project, the last thing we need is another character that requires lots of work.

As for the tagging out just make Lucina an Alt for Marth like with MMX for MM etc.

That's just my two cents though.

*Lurks back into the shadows*
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:01 pm

It doesn't matter if Lucina is like Marth, she'll have a different moveset to at least some degree in the same way that Fox/Falco are different, and this will result in different spriting, coding and balancing. Therefore moveset/playstyle cannot be used in that way as an argument for ease of workload.

Lucina is not Marth and cannot be a Marth alt.

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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:06 pm

Perfect Hell wrote:
It doesn't matter if Lucina is like Marth, she'll have a different moveset to at least some degree in the same way that Fox/Falco are different, and this will result in different spriting, coding and balancing.  Therefore moveset/playstyle cannot be used in that way as an argument for ease of workload.

Lucina is not Marth and cannot be a Marth alt.

Ouch had no idea. Razz 

Well then, I'm all for Lucina nonetheless. But don't mind me son, it's your game, do how you'll please with it.

Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:31 pm

True, these are simply suggestions, though ones that I must wish for you to take into consideration nonetheless. Yes, I'm saying all of ours, I'm not that vain.

That being said, I honestly don't see the problem with a tag functionality. Yes, it would require more sprites, but that goes without saying for any new character.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:42 pm

Shiruza wrote:
True, these are simply suggestions, though ones that I must wish for you to take into consideration nonetheless. Yes, I'm saying all of ours, I'm not that vain.

That being said, I honestly don't see the problem with a tag functionality. Yes, it would require doubled sprites, coding, and balancing but that goes without saying for any new character.

Fixed. There's your first problem. The second is that this gives FE a total of 5 characters, which is far too many.

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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:47 pm

Huh. Okay, point taken.

So, why Chrom over Lucina? The only point that I could think of is that she's female, which should really pale in comparison when considering how much more important Chrom is to the game. Personally, I see it as including Rukia over Ichigo, if Bleach was a thing in this game.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:59 pm

Shiruza wrote:
Huh. Okay, point taken.

So, why Chrom over Lucina? The only point that I could think of is that she's female, which should really pale in comparison when considering how much more important Chrom is to the game. Personally, I see it as including Rukia over Ichigo, if Bleach was a thing in this game.
If Bleach were a thing for this game, Ichigo would be taken hands down. Trying to make that as an argument doesn't really help your point since these are two different series with two different situations. Also, did Rukia really do anything in Bleach other than give Ichigo her powers? Correct me if I'm wrong, I never really watched the show.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:02 pm

She's sort of the clever sidekick of the first series, the damsel-in-distress of the second, then gets relegated to a member of the "team" in the rest until the end of the shinigami storyline. So yeah, she and Ichigo are definitely not a comparison with Lucina and Chrom.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:08 pm

Well, I honestly can't think of another example...

I'll say it bare-bones.

The secondary, later-introduced Protagonist with slightly less focus and screen time over the major Protagonist which the game is mostly focused around and dependant on.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:22 pm

The example you're looking for could be Serah over Noel in FFXIII-2 for any FF fans here.  I still think it's pretty trivial to argue "main" character in a clear-cut situation of two main characters with no need for either one to be superior in importance to the other. Though I must admit i can't say that for certain since i know nothing of this game and am just judging by the argument being made by those involved.

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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:38 pm

Perfect Hell wrote:
The example you're looking for could be Serah over Noel in FFXIII-2 for any FF fans here.  I still think it's pretty trivial to argue "main" character in a clear-cut situation of two main characters with no need for either one to be superior in importance to the other.  Though I must admit i can't say that for certain since i know nothing of this game and am just judging by the argument being made by those involved.

Well, as an unbiased update (Obvious Spoilers):

Chrom is the first of the two, and one of the first two companions in the game (the other is Lissa, the healer of the team. She doesn't qualify). He is also one of only the two characters who can defeat Grima, the final boss, and the other is the player avatar. His advanced class (the Lord class) uses the Fire Emblem as a shield. He is the only one who can wield the Exalted Falchion, the major weapon of the game. He wields it like a broadsword, unlike Marth.
Chrom is the map marker no matter who is at the front of your army.

Lucina is the daughter of Chrom, from the future. She appears first as the masked "Marth", acting as an antihero of sorts and claiming to be Marth himself. She is first playable halfway through the game, when she reveals her identity, and is the first of the other children from the future to join. She may also advance to the Lord class, but does not use the Fire Emblem. In place of the Exalted Falchion and Falchion, she uses the Parallel Falchion, which is the alternate future form of Chrom's Falchion. She wields it like a rapier, similar to Marth.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:22 am

I'd support Chrom over Lucina in this case, but Lucina could easily be integrated into a tag-team Final Smash, so she'd get a cameo appearance of sorts. The alternative would be to have them fight side by side constantly like Ice Climbers, so that's one set of sprites and one moveset. It would be similar to my suggestion for Ephraim & Eirika from a while back.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:47 pm

The problem with that is that Lucina is not a recolor of Chrom like Nana&Popo are. We also don't need two characters with the Ice Climbers mechanic unless they did it in a very different way, otherwise it lacks uniqueness.

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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:56 pm

I support Chrom over Lucina but still i prefer Ephraim or Hector over Chrom at least they use something other than sword but even if Chrom have a shield he dont really use it the problem about Chrom its that he a Prince + Lord + Sword User exacly like : Roy,Eliwood,Marth,Sigurd,Seliph,Leaf,Eirika but take Eliwood by exemple Eliwood is 1/3 the protagonist of Blazing Sword ( With Lyn and Hector ) he is a Prince + Lord + Sword User + the father of Roy another important Character ( Main Character Of Sealed Sword ) . Chrom is the main protagonist of Awakening and even if you count the Avatar he is 50% the Main Protagonist he is a Prince + Lord + Sword User + the father of Lucina another important Character ( One of the Protagonist Of Awakening ) the thing is Eliwood is playble in 2 Fire Emblem games ( Playable in Blazing Sword + Sealed Sword if you clear the game five times + Trial Maps ) and Chrom only one i dont what to say we cannot say that Chrom is extremely Unique in the Fire Emblem series maybe if they annonced that in the next Fire Emblem game Chrom is really important + Playable maybe the main Protagonist he will be one of the best choice .
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:09 am

That post was kinda difficult to read.

Part of Chrom's uniqueness is the type of lord he is; he's much closer to the mercenary-type character of Ike than the swordmaster-type character of Marth, Roy, Lyn, Eliwood, etc. As for having a shield, Chrom can be easily made to use the shield, using shield bash attacks or something.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:00 pm

Like the Warrior of Light without the FF magic

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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:24 pm


Here is my input on this character.


I feel that Chrom is not a necessary addition and I'll explain why.

Marth - He is the mascot character of the entire series, which is something no other character in the series can surpass compared to him. He uses a swift variations of basic sword attacks in somewhat like a dancing style, imo. Basically, Marth already covers the basic sword attacks.

Roy - Even though he is similar to Marth in regards to how he plays, but Roy will likely use special sword attacks like many variations of fire and such. Roy already covers for those special sword attacks.

Ike - Ike is a mercenary with smash-mouth, brutal attack with his large sword. He is what we view as a stronger, but slower versions of the former & latter mentioned above. So really, Ike is already what we can define as our strongman of swordsman for the series, which is already covered.

Anna - Anna is a thief, trickster, healer, shopkeeper, etc. She is the most recurring character in the whole series, even over Marth himself. She is also a female rep for the series and not another blue-haired swordman protagonist like the ones before. She can use many weapons which includes the items that she sells. She basically can cover up for many of the missing classes to some extent.

Now back to Chrom.

As stated above, Chrom honestly offers nothing in playstyle for the series, at all. Marth uses basic sword attacks with a flow, Roy uses special sword attacks, Ike is your hard hitting swordman, and Anna pretty much does everything else as well as an addition to the female roster. So what will Chrom bring to the table in playstyle?

Imo, the Support pairing of Chrom & an Awakening character will not work. First off, it works for Ice Climbers cause they are 2 of the same and at times attack simultaneously. A Fire Emblem Support in the other hand is complete opposite. While Chrom & Lucina do have the same weapon, they hold it in different positions. Also, Fire Emblem Support team don't attack simultaneously, they attack 1 by 1. So having them attack at the same exact time is rather forced based on how Fire Emblem actually works with teams.

So yea, all Chrom positively offers is relevancy as a protagonist and nothing more. His playstyle only duplicates what already exist from Fire Emblem smash rep veterans while Anna covers tons of varieties. The Support team with Lucina, Robin, etc doesn't make sense to work due to how the Support team actually functions in the FE series.

If we want to go with variety as well as representing the Awakening games, how about we go beyond what is expected, yet acceptable. As you already know, we have our protagonist, female rep, etc with the existing choices. The one thing that is left out is a villain. Yes, what I would suggest is having Validar as an option. Not only does he have relevancy, but he also covers the villain's role for the series that has been strongly lacking more than anything after having Marth, Roy, Ike, & Anna. Validar can use many different types of tomes. Although, it may be possible for Anna to do the same, but at least Validar is playing in a different role and strictly uses tomes while Chrom basically uses everything that exist on our playable reps & Anna.

So do you guys think Validar is a preferable option over Chrom?

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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:51 pm

Yes, more villains.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:31 am

In that case, we might want a villain from the Jugdral games. There are two of these games, rather than just one of Awakening, and there's a pretty good selection of iconic villains there (Alvis, Yurius, Ishtar, Trabant (he wouldn't work, but still)). What's more, the Jugdral games are generally seen as being darker and more serious than the others, so taking a villain would fit. As for popularity, while Awakening could be argued to be the game that propelled FE into the mainstream (and we don't even know that yet; for all we know, FE hype could fade back down), FE4 was undoubtedly the greatest leap forward in the FE series in terms of popularity, quality, everything.

So yeah, looks like I'm bringing up Alvis again. Last time he lost to Anna, but then last time DLC only allowed us one candidate.
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PostSubject: Re: Chrom. Yes, I'm doing this again.   Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:04 am

Me, I like Chrom more than Lucina. I too feel that he would be a bit better.

However if it's Chrom vs Anna and not Marth/Ike/Roy/Anna + Chrom, then my vote goes to the girls (don't really care which of the two girls, but a female)
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