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 Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!

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Does Yoshimitsu deserve a spot on the DLC poll?
Yes
68%
 68% [ 15 ]
No
32%
 32% [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 22
 

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Perfect Hell

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PostSubject: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:57 pm



Yoshimitsu is a character featured in the Tekken series primarily, though he is also featured in the Soul Calibur series. Yoshimitsu is the leader of the Manji ninja clan, and will stop at nothing to avenge the deaths of his clan members. Yoshimitsu is a comical and quirky character, yet an honorable ninja full of hatred and vengeance for those who slaughtered the members of his clan.

Yoshimitsu is one of 4 characters to appear in every Tekken game, and he has also appeared in every Soul Calibur game. He has also appeared in both Tekken films, and the crossover game; Street Fighter X Tekken.

Fighting Style

Tekken Wiki wrote:
Yoshimitsu's fighting style incorporates a blend of ninjutsu, sword attacks, and special stances. Wielding a sword, he has many attacks that utilize it. He can perform slashes with it, use it to impale his opponent, and rotate it with his mechanical left hand in a windmill manner (he can also use this method to fly). Another use of his sword is in "Harakiri" moves, where he impales himself or himself and his opponent with it, damaging them both.

He has many stances. One is "Meditation", where he turns his back to his opponent and heals himself (excluding Tekken 3 and Tekken Tag Tournament, whereas if you left him in Meditation stance, he will lose his own health). "Indian Stance", where he heals himself while sitting Indian style. Another of his stances is "Manji Dragonfly", where he rotates his sword and his mechanical left hand to levitate in midair. He also has a "Flea" stance, where he stands on his sword by placing the tip into the ground and wrapping his hands and feet around the hilt. Another is his Kincho stance, where he'll yell "Hisotsu! (Meaning "Prepare yourself" in Japanese), and threaten to pull out his wakizashi. If a certain button is pressed, Yoshimitsu will take the wakizashi out of it's case and attack his opponent as he pulls it out.

Playstyle for Crusade

Yoshimitsu will be a low mobility character, yet high attack speed. He is capable of many quirky abilities that can take the opponent by surprise such as using his sword to float like a helicopter, or using his sword like a pogo stick. He is a very unique character with a lot to bring to the table.

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Vote Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!

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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:18 pm

read the rules :facepalm:
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:20 pm

narutojaja wrote:
read the rules :facepalm:
What?
has appeared in the nintendo consoles


Last edited by CJ on Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:20 pm

narutojaja wrote:
read the rules :facepalm:
everyone take this guy's advice
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:37 pm

Yoshimitsu is from a series that has not yet gotten a DLC candidate and also has appeard on a Nintendo platform. I believe he is allowed

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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:41 pm

Perfecthell4 wrote:
Yoshimitsu is from a series that has not yet gotten a DLC candidate and also has appeard on a Nintendo platform. I believe he is allowed

He is. Jin lost that other poll.
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:10 pm

I love how you conveniently leave out that Tekken Yoshimitsu and Soul Calibur Yoshimitsu are different characters (with Soul Calibur actually having two different Yoshimitsu) in order to deceive people into believing that this "one" character is so expansive. Rolling Eyes

If you're going to raise support for a DLC character, give the actual facts.
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:23 am

"Yoshimitsu" is a persona, like how "Link" is. The name and essence of the character transcend multiple lifetimes and people, they are all different people literally but the same figuratively. So essentially what we're voting for is the persona "Yoshimitsu", which is the same across all appearances and therefore is (metaphorically speaking) one character for our intents and purposes. Please correct me if I'm wrong (unless PH4 comes on and confirms everything I said like usual).
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:00 am

The major differences between Link and Yoshimitsu is that Link is exclusive to one series, meaning it doesn't really matter that there is more than one, but with Yoshimitsu, it is two different series with two different Yoshimitsu (technically three, but for intents and purposes, just going by the two series). So we have Tekken Yoshimitsu and Soul Yoshimitsu/Yoshimitsu II.

Another is that every Link is a reincarnation of the original Link, a warrior who served the goddess Hylia.
As shown in SCV, a disciple takes the mantle of Yoshimitsu when they ritually execute the previous one (their master) in combat.


However, I am not arguing that Yoshimitsu should be excluded from DLC; I'm merely arguing that the factual information be given.
This is especially since there is a bit of a difference between the two; Soul Yoshimitsu has feudal era weapons while Tekken Yoshimitsu has some modernized/futuristic weapons (like the energy sword). So one could be the default while the other is an alt.

There is also another error; a Yoshimitsu is not present in every Soul game. The only three characters that can claim this feat are Siegfried, Mitsurugi, and Cervantes.
There was no Yoshimitsu in the original game in the series (known as Soul Edge) nor was there one in Soul Calibur Legends.
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:18 pm

Yoshimitsu is a persona, like Merc said. It doesn't matter at all that the person behind the mask changes, Yoshimitsu is the same general character regardless. Sure, his sword might look different between the two series but their abilities are identical so it is a non-issue. It is made clear that the three Yoshimitsu are functionally the same character and that is all that matters. The technicality of there being a separate person behind the mask doesn't really change anything, the character of Yoshimitsu has still appeared across both series, still has the same moveset potential, along with everything else in the OP.

Some wiki or another said he was in every soul game...or i might have misread and he has appeared in every main title.

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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:54 pm

"Every main title"
That would still be incorrect due to Soul Edge.

And a persona =/= character. Regardless of the three characters using the same persona, it is an outright lie to say that Yoshimitsu as a character is in both series.
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:40 am

This debate is completely idiotic.

Yoshimitsu can still rep both series.

Sheesh.
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:23 pm


Question, even though Yoshimitsu had appeared in both series, which one is his most well-known appearances?
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:29 pm

SK: Probably Tekken, since that was the first appearance of any Yoshimitsu.

Sliss: Not at the same time without being downright asinine. Which is why the alt idea I brought up is the best solution. It covers both completely, with Tekken Yoshimitsu using a beam katana while Soul Yoshimitsu uses a regular one. (to where it's just an aesthetic alt)
Have Tekken Yoshimitsu be the default with the appearance from Tekken 3, as that is the most used design (Tekken 3, Tekken Tag Tournament, Tekken Advance, Street Fighter X Tekken, and the Tekken film from 2010), while Soul Yoshimitsu takes on the appearance of Yoshimitsu II from Soul Calibur V.
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:49 pm

no more alts

for real
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:22 pm

An alt that merely changes the appearance and some SFX isn't that big of a deal.
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:05 am

Then it's not worth making an alt. The reason you provided would discourage me from working on it as a spriter (assuming I was one), since it's extra effort just to have an aesthetic difference. If I was spriting (or even coding) an alt I'd at least want it to be different enough to warrant the extra time and effort.

In that case I'd just suggest making it a palette swap. Since, you know, those are happening in 0.9 onward. It would be like selecting a certain color makes him wear certain armor. Since both versions are the same functionally there's no need to make it an alt when it could just go on top of whatever's coded for the original armor.
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:09 am

Fine, then give the effing Tekken Yoshimitsu a slight boost in power with sword attacks due to having a laser blade (and using two for some attacks; something Soul Yoshimitsu can't do) and give him a more ninja-esque fighting style in comparison to Soul Yoshimitsu's samurai-esque fighting style. (This is expressed in their fighting styles in the two series; I'm not scraping to find differences)

But for God's sake, don't label one particular Yoshimitsu as part of both series.
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:45 am

Kiryu wrote:
An alt that merely changes the appearance and some SFX isn't that big of a deal.

this is not a matter of a simple texture swap

having an alt means an entire extra character to sprite
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:04 pm

Even if we don't label both Yoshimitsu's the same, it is fine to use just one and not the other and simply call it Yoshimitsu. I'd go with the Tekken 3 version since it is the most frequent one.
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:11 pm

I would go with the most common version for Yoshimitsu, or in other words, his most recognizable appearance

EDIT:

btw, which appearance is this? Cause when I think of Yoshimitsu, I think of the one with the flag on his back

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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:19 pm

MercuryHg34 wrote:
Even if we don't label both Yoshimitsu's the same, it is fine to use just one and not the other and simply call it Yoshimitsu. I'd go with the Tekken 3 version since it is the most frequent one.
In which case, leave out all mentions of Soul Calibur except for the reference to the series featuring ancestors of the Yoshimitsu in his profile and have him be labeled a Tekken character.
The issue was NOT that he had take an appearance from both; it was that is incorrect and downright deceptive to claim one Yoshimitsu as a recurring character in both series, which is most likely what is influencing the votes.

On another note, while at work, I realized something very ironic...
MercuryHg34 wrote:
In that case I'd just suggest making it a palette swap. Since, you know, those are happening in 0.9 onward. It would be like selecting a certain color makes him wear certain armor. Since both versions are the same functionally there's no need to make it an alt when it could just go on top of whatever's coded for the original armor.

Your suggestion is no different; to make the "palette swap" have different armor, you'd still have to sprite the armor. Meaning, it's the same deal of work for the same purpose; an aesthetic change.


EDIT: @SK: That would be Yoshimitsu II from Soul Calibur V (the direct successor to the Yoshimitsu from Soul Caliburs I through IV). As for the "flag", I think that was only in SCII and SCV.
All of the Yoshimitsu have different designs each game; the only actual recurring design is Tekken 3's.
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:21 pm

I still think this debate is pointless. Yoshimitsu is here as a Tekken DLC character, not as a Soul Calibur character. Yet you cannot say that Yoshimitsu is not a well known Soul Calibur character as well, and that it should be treated as such. For all intents and purposes, they are the same character and your technicalities make no difference. Heck, the only reason the developers even did have more than one Yoshimitsu was to explain for the time difference between games, nothing more.

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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:02 pm


I wouldn't call it a pointless argument since it shed in more light about Yoshimitsu's Tekken & Soul Calibur cross-overs. None the less, the evolution the Yoshimitsu character throughout all his appearances. I feel arguments like this (minus insults) really breaks down on what direction we would go if we decided on the character itself.
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:17 pm

Perfecthell4 wrote:
your technicalities make no difference.
I think I'm going to quote this in every argument GY participates in, thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:02 pm

Perfecthell4 wrote:
Heck, the only reason the developers even did have more than one Yoshimitsu was to explain for the time difference between games, nothing more.

Got any source to back up that claim?
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Kiryu wrote:
Perfecthell4 wrote:
Heck, the only reason the developers even did have more than one Yoshimitsu was to explain for the time difference between games, nothing more.

Got any source to back up that claim?
Play SCV. It's a 17 year time skip.
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:25 pm

C_Mill24 wrote:
Kiryu wrote:
Perfecthell4 wrote:
Heck, the only reason the developers even did have more than one Yoshimitsu was to explain for the time difference between games, nothing more.

Got any source to back up that claim?
Play SCV. It's a 17 year time skip.
That does not answer anything.

He's saying that the reason that the only reason there is more than one Yoshimitsu in regards to the two series is to explain the time difference between Tekken and Soul.

However, they could have just made the character immortal instead, at which any issues about labeling would have not existed.
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:51 am

But they didn't. So there you go.

In any case this argument is stupid, there's obviously overwhelming support for Yoshimitsu to be added, and since the playstyle differences are almost negligible I doubt anyone really cares which Yoshimitsu gets used. In that case the most frequent appearance would win, and as stated several times that would be his Tekken 3 appearance.
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PostSubject: Re: Yoshimitsu for CrusaDLC!   Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:50 am

What is really stupid is that you keep acting as though my argument is against Yoshimitsu being DLC when I have repeatedly stated that my issue is that incorrect information about the character is being given.

So yeah, I would agree to give him the Tekken 3 design, label him as a Tekken character, and merely give a passing mention about the two Soul Yoshimitsu being his predecessors in his profile information.
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