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 Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)

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Should either of these characters be DLC?
Master Hand
17%
 17% [ 4 ]
Tabuu
4%
 4% [ 1 ]
Both
43%
 43% [ 10 ]
None
26%
 26% [ 6 ]
Other (Please specify)
9%
 9% [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 23
 

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PostSubject: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:52 am

Are you tired of seeing pathetic choices to represent Smash as a whole? I know I am.

I mean really, a simple punching bag and a robe for a character that limited even the most basic of functions?

Why not someone of actual importance and potential?
So here are two candidates I am proposing:

1. Master Hand


"But wait, isn't he a boss already?" you may ask. Well, Billy, you are correct, however, that doesn't mean he can't also be made into a playable character.

"How would that work?"
Good question.
Allow me to bring you to Exhibits A and B:


These two were massive powerful bosses within Brawl, and work just fine as playable characters in Crusade. And really, if PORKY could be made into a playable character (kudos, Giga), then Master Hand sure as Hell can.

"It doesn't make sense for Master Hand to fight himself!"
That's really stupid considering we have characters fight themselves already with mirror matches.
However, it may be "different" to have a boss fight a playable version of himself, in which case, I bring you to Exhibit C:

That's right, the almighty Aku.

Aku was a boss in the original 3DS release of Cartoon Network Punch Time Explosion, a Smash clone.
Upon the XL version of the game for Wii/360/PS3, Aku became a playable character. One would think that the boss fight with Aku would be changed into a regular character fight with him, right? WRONG.
He is STILL a boss in the XL version, with a revamped system of attacks based on his playable form.
Even more interesting is that once you obtain playable Aku, you can fight Boss Aku as Aku. Akuception.

I'm pretty sure there are other examples of playable characters fighting their "boss" selves in other fighting games.

Lastly, I bring you to Exhibits D, E, and F:


Giant DK, Metal Mario, and Giga Bowser. You see, Master Hand is the embodiment of creation, and such creations he has made are a larger version of DK, a metallic version of Mario, and a monstrous version of Bowser.
So what's the point of this? It wouldn't be farfetched for Master Hand to create a weaker copy of himself in playable form.

Master Hand is essentially the "main" character of the Smash series. It's about time he was treated as such.

2. Tabuu


Tabuu's got plenty of attacks to work with and would work exceptionally well. He'd also represent the SSE far better than the Ancient Minister.

Again, Ridley and Porky are proof that bosses can be made playable.

"But Tabuu was frigging powerful!"
Let me introduce you to someone. Goku Face
This face belongs to Son Goku, the most overpowered character we have in the game in canon.
If Goku was up against Tabuu at his peak, Goku would still destroy him with little effort. In fact, the only one Goku can't fully destroy is Porky, as he cannot die.

If that isn't enough to sway you, think about this. When we first saw Tabuu, he was untouchable, and was able to wipe out everyone in an instant. Once Sonic rammed his wings, Tabuu was weakened to where a combined effort between the Smashers would be enough to defeat him, and was considerably less powerful. So it should stand to reason that after his sound thrashing in the SSE, he'd be a lot weaker.

So I implore you, let actual deserving Smash reps have a shot. Don't settle for a punching bag or a robe which both require improvised moves.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:21 pm

Majin Sonic wrote:
Are you tired of seeing pathetic choices to represent Smash as a whole? I know I am.

I mean really, a simple punching bag and a robe for a character that limited even the most basic of functions?

i love you too golden
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:09 am

Thought of a moveset i could suggest for Master Hand.
Spoiler:
 

What do you think Golden?
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:21 am

It's Smash Bros. There's still tradition and rules.
Could you imagine being able to select Yami as a character in Tatsunoko Vs Capcom? Wouldn't it be a little awkward fighting Yami at the end of Arcade mode?

If you want Master Hand to be playable so bad, maybe he should have his own mode, like the final boss of Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3 did. That was cool and Master Hand would still hold the title of a boss.

Tabuu...Well. He was on Phantom's first roster almost five years ago, but I got Tabuu off. We removed him because it was cheap. Where's the creativity in having Master Hand and Tabuu? The Ancient Minister and Sandbag (which I assume you are against) both take creative minds to make them work.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:56 am

Dr.MarioX wrote:
Where's the creativity in having Master Hand and Tabuu? The Ancient Minister and Sandbag (which I assume you are against) both take creative minds to make them work.
I'm sorry, what?!?

You'd rather have characters that would be an incredible challenge just to make them fit in the game playable, than two characters that would fit better, for the sake of the challenge? That's just ridiculous.

Yes to both.

Master Hand/Tabuu > Ancient Minister/Sandbag
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:31 am

Agreed. Though I think Master Hand would be more deserving to get in than Tabuu, that is, if only one were to make it. MH has been around since SSB64, and its about time he got in on the playable cast. Of course I think Tabuu should be playable as well, so I'm voting for both, but if only one can get in, I'd put MH 1st.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:36 am

Voted none cause both playables seems off to me
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:37 am

Just so you know, neither of them will probably be in the game.

mostly because of massive 'un-support' from the other devs.

If you think about it, Ancient Minister could basically be a bottled-up version of all possible Smash Bros choices. He isn't a smaller Master Hand (which seems like a pretty stupid idea, IMO), he wouldn't take up a character slot (being an Alt of ROB), AND he has a massive array of possible things to use for fighting, even if he cannot use his arms or lasers.

Minister could make use of Shadow Bugs to do things related to other Smash Bros characters, and overall be an incredibly varied character.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:16 am

AzureLight12 wrote:
Agreed. Though I think Master Hand would be more deserving to get in than Tabuu, that is, if only one were to make it. MH has been around since SSB64, and its about time he got in on the playable cast. Of course I think Tabuu should be playable as well, so I'm voting for both, but if only one can get in, I'd put MH 1st.
Pretty much my opinion of this.

Giga: It sucks that the Devs are so anti them, I personally don't see any problem with them. I'd be more than happy to be the main spriter too.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:22 pm

Dr.MarioX wrote:
It's Smash Bros. There's still tradition and rules.
Could you imagine being able to select Yami as a character in Tatsunoko Vs Capcom? Wouldn't it be a little awkward fighting Yami at the end of Arcade mode?

Ogre, Devil Jin, and Jinpachi selectable in Tekken. Argument invalid.

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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:24 pm

I think Smash Bros. calls for more tradition than that of any Capcom/Namco/etc fighting game. And by that, I mean end-of-game-mode bosses should not be playable. At least not easily playable.

I think having a mode to play as Master Hand against a few waves of characters (and expanding from fighting just one opponent to five) would be fun and would satisfy the need to play as the big boss of Smash Bros.

Sandbag and Ancient Minister are still large original Smash characters, but they're not bosses we've been fighting since 1998, so their inclusion won't be too farfetched.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:30 pm

Think about it:

Master Hand was made to be and always will be a big boss-type character.

If you take that away he is basically nothing. A dumbed-down Master Hand would just ruin what Master Hand is.

What would be BETTER is if there was a Master Hand mode or something, getting to play as Boss Master Hand fighting the regular characters. Like Galactus Mode in UMvC3. That way, Master Hand will still be the massive Powerhouse he was always meant to be, the worthy ruler of the Realm of Smash Bros.

and Tabuu... well, making him smaller and Playable would just be ridiculous. He's Tabuu, supposed to be the absolute strongest thing in the Smash Universe (for now, anyway). Even though he was defeated, he wouldn'tve gotten so weak (and shrunk) that he could be playable.
for non-logic reasons, yes, he would just be ridiculous to see so dumbed down. Sandbag and Ancient Minister would actually make more sense stepping into the ring. Especially Sandbag, who would possibly want a peice of the action as well, and NOT want everyone DEAD like Tabuu.

There's one thing with the size of characters that weren't Smash-Exclusive characters, and other with characters like Porky and Ridley. Obviously the sizes of them fluctuate in their own games (or in the case of Porky, he was made to be his original size in Crusade), but Master Hand and Tabuu were huge since the beginning, and making them 'smaller' and 'weaker' just overall would not make sense.

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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:36 pm

I had this idea of how to represent the SSB series with a Master Handish character. It would be a smaller Master Hand, being like a Servant Hand. He would be slightly different from Master Hand, but still enough like him to rep SSB.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:54 pm


I think its better to not create a character of our own.

Seeing how people want to play Master Hand soo bad, I'm open to support Master Hand Mode. Pretty much the idea that Giga just suggested
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:57 pm

I support Master Hand mode as well, perhaps a 2 player mode with Crazy Hand playable.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:58 pm

"Smash" and "tradition" aren't words that go together very well -_-

Seriously, every game is just so drastically different from one another. Veterans are removed, engines are changed drastically (not improved, changed. It's like they want a completely different game every time while still slapping Smash Bros on the cover), then Brawl throws in Final Smashes. Having Tabuu or MH playable isn't nearly as far-fetched as Devil Jin from Tekken, especially considering Devil Jin is just Jin but much more powerful, and you can play as both. And Jinpachi is practically a god compared to the others, yet you can play as him. After all is done, no one playing this game would even give a second thought to these characters being available for DLC. In fact most would probably love that. Playing MH in Melee is popular because people want to be able to do that

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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:02 pm

Well, those they dont FLY all the time, do they?

Teleport around the stage, have whole-stage attacks, etc?

If you want Master Hand so bad, Master Hand mode is seriously the way to go. Otherwise it would be ridiculous.

Though I said this already.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:03 pm

GigaPichu wrote:
Well, those they dont FLY all the time, do they?

Teleport around the stage, have whole-stage attacks, etc?

Lol actually all of the above

If you want Master Hand so bad, Master Hand mode is seriously the way to go. Otherwise it would be ridiculous.

Though I said this already.

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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:05 pm

Well, those games arent smash bros either.

The formula of Smash Bros. would make characters like that seem just stupid to fight in the way of regular fighters.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:09 pm

Uh those games have far less freedom of mobility in general than smash does, making it extremely difficult to deal with large area attacks and opponents who can fly over you or teleport away while doing huge attacks. Smash works far better for that than Tekken ever could

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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:10 pm

But Master Hand literally Flies forever.

and Tabuu never even touches the ground.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:26 pm

Making them extremely unique

If anything they could simply hover just above the ground for walking. There's a way to make anything playable, and balanced

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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:28 pm

Though that way also makes them completely destroyed in character.

There's a reason characters like Giygas arent playable.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:52 pm

Played as MH in Melee with friends using Stamina mode so it would be fair. Didn't detract from my view of the character in any way

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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:16 pm

I support Master Hand mode. If you read my earlier posts, I too suggested this.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:30 pm

@ PH4
wait, Im against master hand being turned into a regular character (with walking and jumping and such)

not master hand mode.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:43 pm

I didn't say anything about Master Hand mode. You said having him playable would detract from the character, i pointed out that he was playable in Melee and it didn't detract from the character at all after having played as him

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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:20 pm

well, THAT Master Hand would be how he would work if there was a mode.

Everyone ELSE wants him to be able to walk around and jump and not have the same moves and be dumbed down.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:07 pm

Seems I'm going to have to defend a few points in my absence.
Thankfully, I'm in a really great mood today, given I got the job I had an interview for today.
I'll edit this later.

EDIT: Long post ahead.

Dr.MarioX wrote:
It's Smash Bros. There's still tradition and rules.
A bunch of "tradition" has been heavily broken within Crusade already to the point that there's hardly anything left to break, and these "rules" that you speak of don't exist. If it is a "rule" Master Hand and Tabuu cannot be playable because they are bosses, it is a "rule" that Sandbag can't be playable for being a dummied NPC and item.

Dr.MarioX wrote:
Could you imagine being able to select Yami as a character in Tatsunoko Vs Capcom? Wouldn't it be a little awkward fighting Yami at the end of Arcade mode?
Can't really use a Vs. title to help this case....considering that at least one version of the original Marvel vs. Capcom features Onslaught, the Final Boss, as a secret unlockable character.

Dr.MarioX wrote:
If you want Master Hand to be playable so bad, maybe he should have his own mode, like the final boss of Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3 did. That was cool and Master Hand would still hold the title of a boss.
Or, just establish that the playable Master Hand is not the real Master Hand, but rather a copy created by the real Master Hand for further purposes of enjoyment (Like how he created Giant DK, Metal Mario, and Giga Bowser). I have already made this point before, and it seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

Dr.MarioX wrote:
Tabuu...Well. He was on Phantom's first roster almost five years ago, but I got Tabuu off. We removed him because it was cheap. Where's the creativity in having Master Hand and Tabuu? The Ancient Minister and Sandbag (which I assume you are against) both take creative minds to make them work.
"Never assume. It makes an @$$ out of 'u' and me."
-Unknown

You are aware that I was one of the ones defending Sandbag in its thread, right?
However, a character shouldn't have to "take creative minds" just to make them feasible. If one has to pick at scraps such as making up a system of enemy and substance spawning or referencing a Debug Mode of all things just to make a relatively useless character work, something's wrong. I mean, would it make sense to say, make a Polygon/Wire Frame/Alloy spawn Platforms from Board the Platforms, toss Targets from Target Smash, create doors from Race to the Finish to teleport in, etc. just to make it work? Honestly?

With Master Hand and Tabuu, you don't have to randomly pull things from table scraps; they have plenty of moves to work with. And with a creative mind, it's easily possible to determine when and how they use their moves. Note, that it doesn't take a creative mind to make them feasible. That part's so easy, even Big the Cat could do it.


GigaPichu wrote:
Just so you know, neither of them will probably be in the game.

mostly because of massive 'un-support' from the other devs.
If either happen to make it within the Top 16 in the Main DLC Poll, then s.o.l., they would be DLC. To refuse to have them as DLC if they were to win would be unjust and downright biased.


GigaPichu wrote:
If you think about it, Ancient Minister could basically be a bottled-up version of all possible Smash Bros choices. He isn't a smaller Master Hand (which seems like a pretty stupid idea, IMO), he wouldn't take up a character slot (being an Alt of ROB), AND he has a massive array of possible things to use for fighting, even if he cannot use his arms or lasers.

Minister could make use of Shadow Bugs to do things related to other Smash Bros characters, and overall be an incredibly varied character.
Then why is it you don't support Magolor since he could "basically be a bottled-up version of all the Kirby Final Bosses"? Troll
I mean, really, does Master Hand make any less sense than 02, who ironically enough, requires a bit more effort to be made feasible?


Dr.MarioX wrote:
I think Smash Bros. calls for more tradition than that of any Capcom/Namco/etc fighting game. And by that, I mean end-of-game-mode bosses should not be playable. At least not easily playable.
If you demand tradition for one thing, in fairness, you need to demand it for all. That means:
a. No non-video game characters (Goku, Mickey Mouse)
b. No original Smash characters (Ancient Minister, Sandbag)
c. No characters with zero Nintendo relevance (The Heavy, Master Chief)
d. HEAVILY limited non-Nintendo characters, as they won't be added "willy-nilly" in Sakurai's own statements.
e. Nothing over 20 new characters. It's "tradition" that there are less than 20 per game.
etc.
Picking one specifically shows unfavorable bias.


Dr.MarioX wrote:
I think having a mode to play as Master Hand against a few waves of characters (and expanding from fighting just one opponent to five) would be fun and would satisfy the need to play as the big boss of Smash Bros.
Trust me, it honestly wouldn't. Things like this get irritating fast, given how when Master Hand was controllable online for a select group of people on Crusade, he was reportedly not that fun to play as, and was too predictable and easily defeated. And if they aren't irritating, they get boring. I mean sure, the concept is interesting and all (as was Galactus Mode on UMvC3), but after like, one time playing it, and not even finishing it to the end, it will get boring very quickly, as what happened to Galactus Mode. I have yet to hear anyone claim they played the mode more than once.

Dr.MarioX wrote:
Sandbag and Ancient Minister are still large original Smash characters, but they're not bosses we've been fighting since 1998, so their inclusion won't be too farfetched.
No, they aren't. That's like saying Keeby and Captain Vul are large characters for the Kirby series.
Think about it: You're saying that a random punching bag from a minigame and a disguise for an exisitng non-Smash original character used for one mode in cutscenes only are "large" characters for the series. Where is the logic in that?

GigaPichu wrote:
Think about it:

Master Hand was made to be and always will be a big boss-type character.

If you take that away he is basically nothing. A dumbed-down Master Hand would just ruin what Master Hand is.
Again, which DMX has ignored as well, this would be a creation by the REAL Master Hand, who is still a boss.
And again, Aku. Within canon to Samurai Jack, he was almighty, all-powerful, indestructable (somewhat), menacing, and would be shown gigantic and towering in a majority of his appearances.
In PTE, this was no different as a boss. And then, in the XL version, this all-powerful godlike being is able to be smashed around by an ordinary kid and his blue blob sidekick. One would think this would be a greater disgrace than Master Hand (who was roughly Dedede's size in Amazing Mirror), who, unlike Aku, has shown to be able to be defeated in regular combat in canon. By a singing puffball or a baby rodent that hurts itself no less. At least Aku had to be defeated by a giant laser made by a supergenius when he was a boss.

GigaPichu wrote:
What would be BETTER is if there was a Master Hand mode or something, getting to play as Boss Master Hand fighting the regular characters. Like Galactus Mode in UMvC3. That way, Master Hand will still be the massive Powerhouse he was always meant to be, the worthy ruler of the Realm of Smash Bros.
Did you even PLAY as Master Hand online? Likewise, did you even PLAY Galactus Mode? Or even hear about it from people who have done those things?
Master Hand is irritating to play as, and Galactus Mode gets boring and stale really fast. A "Master Hand Mode" would be less of a problem with being irritating, and be like Galactus Mode, where you get this power at your disposal, but it loses its charm very fast.

GigaPichu wrote:
and Tabuu... well, making him smaller and Playable would just be ridiculous. He's Tabuu, supposed to be the absolute strongest thing in the Smash Universe (for now, anyway). Even though he was defeated, he wouldn'tve gotten so weak (and shrunk) that he could be playable.
for non-logic reasons, yes, he would just be ridiculous to see so dumbed down. Sandbag and Ancient Minister would actually make more sense stepping into the ring. Especially Sandbag, who would possibly want a peice of the action as well, and NOT want everyone DEAD like Tabuu.
If getting his wings broken ONCE made him able to be defeated and his signature attack not as potent (but still powerful), what is so farfetched about losing a lot of his power after getting a major donkey whooping?
And considering we have someone who's bloddy IMMORTAL with undefined attacks who has been dumbed down to be made into a playable character, what's the real problem here?
And really, because Tabuu wants people dead means he isn't suited for character status. And this is coming from the one who heavily supports an Edritch Abomination that wants to shroud the world in darkness and make people feel endless pain and misery? And when we have murderous characters already, like freaking RIDLEY, Porky, Ganondorf, etc? Double standards, much?
Also, as the Ancient Minister, R.O.B. was unwilling to fight; in fact, he never wanted to do what he did, but if he didn't, his clan would have been wiped out. (Sadly for him, it didn't matter anyway, as his clan was STILL wiped out.) He also never fought directly; whenever confronted, he would try to escape rather than fight. It wasn't until Ganondorf compromised the safety of the remainder of his clan that he revealed his true identity and fight.
As for Sandbag, according to its trophy description, it loves its job, because it likes to see players give it their all and is happy to be of service. Also, its job is what it is made for.
If Master Hand doesn't make sense because he's meant to be an "End Boss", then Sandbag doesn't make sense because it "exists for one reason only: to get smashed in the Home-Run Contest".

Sandbag Trophy (Melee) wrote:
Sandbag exists for one reason only: to get smashed in the Home-Run Contest. Pound on Sandbag as much as possible in the time allotted, then swing for the fences as you compete for the longest home run of all time. Getting hit doesn't hurt Sandbag at all. As a matter of fact, it loves to see players wind up and let loose.

Sandbag Trophy (Brawl) wrote:
An item that appears in the Home-Run Contest, where the goal is to do lots of damage to Sandbag, then send it flying as far as you can. It also appears in the regular game. If you smash it, a storm of confetti and items will burst out. Sandbag doesn't feel pain, though; in fact, it's happy to be of service.

GigaPichu wrote:
There's one thing with the size of characters that weren't Smash-Exclusive characters, and other with characters like Porky and Ridley. Obviously the sizes of them fluctuate in their own games (or in the case of Porky, he was made to be his original size in Crusade), but Master Hand and Tabuu were huge since the beginning, and making them 'smaller' and 'weaker' just overall would not make sense.
Master Hand was in Amazing Mirror, and is roughly around Dedede's size when their sprites are compared (using Dedede's sprites from Nightmare in Dreamland, anyway, given that Dedede wasn't in Amazing Mirror). Also, this version of Master Hand was relatively weak compared to Smash. (Though it was from the Mirror World, so it wasn't the real Master Hand; kind of like what I've been proposing all along. In the words of CD-i Mario: "GET THE HINT?")
Tabuu was shown to have the ability to change size in Brawl as well. Yes, he only grew to sizes that would make Giga Bowser tremble in fear, but it stands to reason that if he can grow and shrink back to "default" size, he can do the opposite as well, in shrinking to a smaller size, and growing back to "default" size.
GigaPichu wrote:
Well, those they dont FLY all the time, do they?
Poor argument. We have characters that within their own series are able fly infinitely such as Kirby (depending on the game), Meta Knight, King Dedede, Charizard, Ridley, Goku, Mewtwo, etc.
And again, you heavily support 02. He's just like Master Hand; he flies all the time.
And also, you support Fleetway Super Sonic as a Sonic alt. Doesn't any iteration of Super Sonic fly indefintely (and are near invincible as well)?


GigaPichu wrote:
Teleport around the stage, have whole-stage attacks, etc?
Oh, you mean like Goku does within his own canon? All with a power level that arguably exceeds both Master Hand and Tabuu?
Do you really not know how powerful Goku really is? As I said before, he'd wipe the floor with the entire cast just by yelling. (Again, except Porky, due to immortality. Though Porky would be unable to fight back without his mech, which is NOT invincible.)
How is making Goku much weaker than canon any different from making Master Hand or Tabuu weaker?


GigaPichu wrote:
But Master Hand literally Flies forever.

and Tabuu never even touches the ground.

Restating my point; we have a crapton of characters that in canon can fly forever (or at least much longer than in Smash).
And then there's 02, who you heavily support, who never touches the ground.
And a certain crapdragon. The fact you forgot that IT always flies and never touches the ground is quite alarming, as it renders your arugment null and void.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:54 am

I remember how boring Galactus mode got. I no longer support Master Hand mode.
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PostSubject: Re: Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)   

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Behold, the Ultimates of Smash (READ BEFORE YOU VOTE)
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