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Smash King
Smash King


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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:52 pm

I thought I censored the "R" word :/
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:01 pm

MercuryHg34 wrote:
The point is that if a new moveset is created here then we would have to balance it first to make sure he isn't OP or a total wimp.

Well yea, i thought that went without being said. Of course we would balance him just like any other character

Traweezie wrote:

I know but I'm saying that because I don't want anymore retarded polls ruining the character

While i agree that some users make some pretty bad decisions as far as voting goes, but as for what ends up winning polls, it's almost always the best choice for the game. When has the community ever "ruined" a character through a poll?

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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:10 pm

Traweezie wrote:
Perfecthell4 wrote:
A weapon wheel is a weapon wheel, doesn't matter if you change the selecting system it's still a weapon wheel.

I don't see the problem with repping MM as best as possible through a weaponized moveset instead of a totally sakurai'd moveset with a few MM moves tacked on in specials

There is a problem... the community... if we change mega at all I suggest we move it to the br because I REFUSE to have my favorite character of all time get ruined by a retarded voting people that don't even know what they're voting for... as far as a New FS goes I say we should give him Astro Crush. The meteors will fill the screen causing 15% damage for about 10 seconds then A huge meteor will smack the stage and stay there for a couple seconds then it'll explode. causing 30% damage

FINALLY!!!!!! someone who agrees with my Astro Crush idea! and it's a simple and smart one :/
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:19 pm

Perfecthell4 wrote:
Traweezie wrote:

I know but I'm saying that because I don't want anymore retarded polls ruining the character

While i agree that some users make some pretty bad decisions as far as voting goes, but as for what ends up winning polls, it's almost always the best choice for the game. When has the community ever "ruined" a character through a poll?

Ok I said polls just wreaking stuff in general not a character. Most poll based decisions that involve characters aren't even in the game yet so yeah... and most of those are just sprite works not moveset changes. This is not a yes or no poll which means more suggestions will be thrown out there, one thing the other person thought of ends up being a suggestion, they vote for it... then the rest of the people that know little to nothing of the series vote for the most popular. If you need an example of how that works I suggest you look at the stage roaster polls
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:38 pm

In most cases, the stage roster polls have ended up with the best possible stages actually. Maybe not your personal favorite, but the best overall choices none the less. Notice how the stage removal poll succeeded in removing nothing? That's because the current choices are already good choices. No one is going to be 100% happy with every poll, that's kinda the point.

This is definitely something the community should vote for. If it turns out a way you don't like, you'll have to accept that the majority opinion sees it differently. I'm not happy with every single vote that's happened, doesn't mean community voting is a bad thing and should be restricted to BR/Balancers, that's completely unfair to the community and frankly would make no sense at all. This isn't a balancing or competitive issue and so the BB/BR has no right whatsoever to make this decision

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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:04 pm

I am in favor of incorporating Robot Master moves into his normal moves.

Smash Land did something a bit similar (with the limited moves it had).

I think it'd be much more interesting than having one Special Move be used for a particular weapon, and another be to change said weapon.
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:08 pm

Perfecthell4 wrote:
In most cases, the stage roster polls have ended up with the best possible stages actually. Maybe not your personal favorite, but the best overall choices none the less. Notice how the stage removal poll succeeded in removing nothing? That's because the current choices are already good choices. No one is going to be 100% happy with every poll, that's kinda the point.

This is definitely something the community should vote for. If it turns out a way you don't like, you'll have to accept that the majority opinion sees it differently. I'm not happy with every single vote that's happened, doesn't mean community voting is a bad thing and should be restricted to BR/Balancers, that's completely unfair to the community and frankly would make no sense at all. This isn't a balancing or competitive issue and so the BB/BR has no right whatsoever to make this decision

You clearly missed my point... it's not that I don't like the voting, It's that I don't like the people that vote for something that they do not know(Which is why the removal poll didn't remove anything because the majority of this forum is filled with voters that do not know series well). Again how many people here are actual megaman fans? Hardcore ones? I highly doubt there are many which means he may not get repped the right way. Isn't that what we're trying to do here? rep the characters correctly? because the street fighter poll says other wise with a Ken stage winning as a second stage. obviously the chun stage repped for chun who's IN THE GAME. Again I ask you... are we trying to rep characters here? because from what I see it's just an excuse to get what you want in because the rest of the people have no idea about the series. As a megaman fan I would HATE to see this happen so I suggested we did a mix so the MM fans can be happy and the rest of the people can be happy.
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:12 am

Firstly, Ken's stage reps street fighter best as a classic stage and by far the most recognizable stage of the series. It's not about repping anything, it's about the best possible choice as a combination of game rep, stage rep, and actual viability, or how much fun it would actually be. Chun's stage only had the "rep chun-li" thing going for it, and it's not actually important that EVERY charscter get their own personal stage. In my opinion the SF poll could not have gone better.

Secondly, yes we are trying to rep MM correctly. Exactly why i support replacing punches and kicks that have NOTHING to do with MM. Obviously he'll have some of those, every character does, but he shouldn't have many.

And finally, I did get your point, and i responded to your earlier post asking to make this decision private to the BR, which again, would not make sense to do.

You really think people don't know MM and will rep him wrong? Seriously, how is that even possible when discussing one of the most popular video game characters of all time?

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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:22 pm

Now, here's the important thing: SSF2's Mega Man moveset was designed by ME. So it can't be copying if I'm designing both movesets, can it?


I've started a moveset for him already in a notepad file. Just a couple parts of it:
Dair - Flame Blast (MM6), causes a hazard if it hits the ground.
USmash - Our current Tornado Hold. Same and everything, it even shoots out so its difficult to aim right.
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AEM



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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:41 pm

A completely profectile based Mega Man just fits Mega Man.

I fully agree with this idea.
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Maikeru
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:09 pm

Traweezie wrote:
You clearly missed my point... it's not that I don't like the voting, It's that I don't like the people that vote for something that they do not know(Which is why the removal poll didn't remove anything because the majority of this forum is filled with voters that do not know series well). Again how many people here are actual megaman fans? Hardcore ones? I highly doubt there are many which means he may not get repped the right way. Isn't that what we're trying to do here? rep the characters correctly? because the street fighter poll says other wise with a Ken stage winning as a second stage. obviously the chun stage repped for chun who's IN THE GAME. Again I ask you... are we trying to rep characters here? because from what I see it's just an excuse to get what you want in because the rest of the people have no idea about the series. As a megaman fan I would HATE to see this happen so I suggested we did a mix so the MM fans can be happy and the rest of the people can be happy.

Wow.. Just.. Wow..

I have never seen someone so selfish on this forum until now. Just because you are the so-called hardcore megaman fan doesn't give you the rights to modifying megaman to your own desires of any means. No one cares if you're a hardcore fan of megaman and no one cares if you played all of megaman's games. All we've been discussing is the weapon selection for megaman. That's all. Don't go insulting members about it just because you're not happy with what the community votes upon megaman.

Now RoyMaster4 suggested a new moveset that incorporates to his origins more than the current one. As much as it sounds like a fresh idea, the only problem is to those that have been playing as him in the past demos of the game and if they can adapt to the new moveset. The only method I can think of to please both sides is to add the weapons to the original moveset and tweak in properties for each weapon, aswell as replacing some of the moves that didn't do good for the blue bomber.

A few examples I can give is that Usmash is tornado hold as Roy said and maybe that his Rock ball could be Ssmash. Like he shoots the rock ball and it gives the damage of a smash attack when kicked at the foe. D smash could be junk shield where he forms a shield of junk and scatters it away from him in a short distance.

Forward air could be modified to be metal cutter where it acts like an air boomerang and Down air could be where he throws a timed crash explosive.

Just a few ideas I had in mind so don't complain. Im not counting anymore votes and this topic will now be discussed upon moveset discussion for the old and new fans. I will update the poll with a list of every one of megaman's weapons later so we can all discuss on how the blue bomber should be played out.
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:53 pm

I actually don't think maining MM should be considered as far as changing the moveset. This is a demo, everything is subject to change

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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:58 pm

Wall of text ahead. Just an imagining of his moveset.

Spoiler:
 



Essentially, I see him attempting to perform combos from accross the map using a variety of long range tools. However, if the opponent gets close, his only way to get them away is either to grab (which is slower due to being a ranged one) or short hop - nair.

The player will have to come up with ingenious combos. Such examples could be using dair to ignite his fsmash. Just some long ones off the top of my head:
Grab > uthrow > utilt > uair > uair > dair > uspecial to escape
Grab > bthrow > bair > uSmash > dsmash > dspecial

If anyone has any ideas, feel free to say so. Smile
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Perfect Hell



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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:20 pm

What about Wily as DLC, and being in his moveset?

Loving the moveset btw

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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:25 pm

Wily for sure is not DLC.
He lost to Zero in the Mega Man DLC poll.
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:34 pm

Its alright in my opinion. I just don't understand why Wily is helping Mega Man kill his enemies. I know transforming FS are bland, but maybe he can use the Super Adapter to fly around and shoot. I also don't like the Astro Crush idea because it means we are favoring that game more than the others. This could apply to my super adapter idea but whatever. We need a Final Smash that Mega Man used for most of the original games.
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Traweezie



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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:53 pm

LightZX wrote:
Its alright in my opinion. I just don't understand why Wily is helping Mega Man kill his enemies. I know transforming FS are bland, but maybe he can use the Super Adapter to fly around and shoot. I also don't like the Astro Crush idea because it means we are favoring that game more than the others. This could apply to my super adapter idea but whatever. We need a Final Smash that Mega Man used for most of the original games.

It's not favoring a game wtheck it's one of his powers that happen to be one of the most powerful weapons in the classic series... I can see if he had his entire moveset revolved around 8 but it's just one move....

As far roy's move set goes I kinda don't like it(especially that wily fs) I like a few Ideas though the thunder claw was great and solar blaze but the others need to be switched around input wise or just not in at all.
Like the U throw gravity hold... Imo it's a bit to powerful to be a throw I would say it could be a fs retaining it's actual effect.
The special moves seem so bland compared to the normal moves since 3/4 is not him actually attacking...(we have 78 powers to choose from not including special power up and other neat stuff)
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:35 pm

Traweezie wrote:
As far roy's move set goes I kinda don't like it(especially that wily fs) I like a few Ideas though the thunder claw was great and solar blaze but the others need to be switched around input wise or just not in at all.
Like the U throw gravity hold... Imo it's a bit to powerful to be a throw I would say it could be a fs retaining it's actual effect.
The special moves seem so bland compared to the normal moves since 3/4 is not him actually attacking...(we have 78 powers to choose from not including special power up and other neat stuff)
We may have so many powers to choose from (It's actually over 100 if you count MM&B, MMV, MMPU, Mega Man Killer weapons, and various things like the Wire and Balloon), but I don't think using normal Robot Master powers in his special moves is very fair. We would end up narrowing them down to a select few that get to be 'special' moves rather than 'normal', even though they could probably fit as normal. I figured special moves would fit better with better cameos, from his friends.
But hey, I'm open to ideas, such as you saying Uthrow fits better for his FS instead of a throw.

As far as a final smash, if not Wily... one last idea:
'Final Assault'
Time for the ultimate attack! He launches the Grab Buster from MMV. If it connects... he does an insane combo with the most OP weapon from every game (Shocks with Elec Beam, grinds with Metal Blade and Shadow Blade, flushes with Rain Flush, reverses gravity with Gravity Hold, Astro Crush, etc. Not necessarily in that order), finishing off with a double Mega Buster to the face (Giving a nod to MMX).
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LightZX
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:54 pm

So something like Link/Ristar final smash hybrid? Maybe, but we do want the FS to be slightly fair and this seems way stronger than both of them. Or are you thinking more of Goku where it will do initial damage than final hit damage? Also grab buster involves stealing hp when I just checked the Mega Man wiki, how does this involve in using all the best attacks?
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:15 pm

LightZX wrote:
So something like Link/Ristar final smash hybrid? Maybe, but we do want the FS to be slightly fair and this seems way stronger than both of them. Or are you thinking more of Goku where it will do initial damage than final hit damage? Also grab buster involves stealing hp when I just checked the Mega Man wiki, how does this involve in using all the best attacks?
Then do a break dash... I just thought Grab Buster would be better.

Oh, and I'm thinking of more like Goku's, yeah.
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:33 pm

I know it's over 100 but I was counting just the 1-10 series without the other special powers. But yeah your right most weapons are unfair in megaman games
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Ness_64
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:53 pm

Is Air Shooter as the U-Throw a good idea? I'd suggest it as the U-Air, but considering what people will say about the SSF2 U-Air...
If we're mixing Robot Master weapons in his attacks, I can think in something else for some of them.

• F-Throw: Flame Sword.

• Jab Combo (like Kirby's punches): Needle Cannon.

• D-Special: Beat Call. Beat's whistle plays, and Beat appears and flies near Mega Man temporarily. He works as a buff in general:
- Flies inside the Mega Buster shots and makes them stronger;
- Makes MM's actual shield last slightly longer, by creating a second shield effect similar to his shield in MM & Bass
- Holding the jump button, Mega Man can either fly using him like Peach does with her U-Special, or Beat pulls him up.
Beat goes away after some time, if Mega Man uses him to fly or if Mega Man takes a strong hit. If his time runs out, he homes into someone near MM and attacks him/her before flying away.
After he goes away, he can't be called again for some time, to prevent spamming.

• Dash Attack: Charge Kick. I know, it's the slide, but with the Charge Kick effect it could have slightly more range and power.

• D-Smash: Wild Coil.
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:03 pm

Ness_64 wrote:
Is Air Shooter as the U-Throw a good idea? I'd suggest it as the U-Air, but considering what people will say about the SSF2 U-Air...
SSF2's uthrow is Air Shooter exactly.

I was trying to avoid SSF2 moves in general which is why I don't have flame sword.
Needle Cannon as a combo could work... didn't think of that.
I don't really like the Beat Call idea... A temporary buff doesn't sound like Mega Man. Maybe if he just summoned Beat, and the next time an opponent got in range, Beat charged at the opponent? Could start up a combo anytime and act as a defensive maneuver.
Wild Coil sounds too close... his smashes should hit far away so he doesn't have a good 'gtfo' move.
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:04 am

RoyMaster4 wrote:
Wall of text ahead. Just an imagining of his moveset.

Spoiler:
 



Essentially, I see him attempting to perform combos from accross the map using a variety of long range tools. However, if the opponent gets close, his only way to get them away is either to grab (which is slower due to being a ranged one) or short hop - nair.

The player will have to come up with ingenious combos. Such examples could be using dair to ignite his fsmash. Just some long ones off the top of my head:
Grab > uthrow > utilt > uair > uair > dair > uspecial to escape
Grab > bthrow > bair > uSmash > dsmash > dspecial

If anyone has any ideas, feel free to say so. Smile
I like this moveset.
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:41 pm

Sorry, RoyMaster, just read your post now. Really liked your moveset, and I'm supporting this. With some exceptions I'll talk about soon.

The actual Air Shooter I thought is a bit different:
Mega Man throws the enemy diagonally and uses the Air Shooter. It works similar to how Lucas uses PK Fire in his U-Throw.
The Air Shooter works just like in Mega Man 2. Here's its MM Wiki description:
Quote :
It fires several small whirlwinds that spread out and rise upward, making it an effective weapon against airborne enemies.
This way, he can hit someone else trying to attack him from above. Of course, the whirlwinds should be strong, so the hit(s) can count.

The Beat Call idea could be used the way you said. After all, it's how he debuted in the classic series.
But I still think he should have a second way to help Mega Man, by carrying him up when holding the jump button, just in case the opponent can't really get close to him.

The moves I didn't really like are:
- The S-Special. How is this special move supposed to work when using from the air? I can see how Eddie Bomb can work, since he can fly too. But Roll?
- The Final Smash. It is a good idea, but the whole concept of Wily helping Mega Man in some way is weird IMO. But I can't think of something else for his FS.

About other things:
- How Power Stone works if uncharged? The same range, but just much weaker?
- You should add the Thunder Claw as a Z-Air. It's good for attacking too.
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Roy
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:31 am

Honestly, there are some parts of the moveset I don't like myself (Like ftilt... I was struggling to come up with something decent for it).

Eh... do we have to use Air Shooter? Why can't we make that Tornado Blow and make utilt something else? If everyone really wants Air Shooter, fine, but I was trying to design the moveset to be as different from SSF2 as possible.

As for Beat Call, if the opponent can't get close to him, he wins. I was trying to simulate the MM5 version of it.

S-Special: I figured she would push forward and would fall as she moves, like how Piplup works when she falls off the edge. If this wouldn't work well, we can probably find something for Auto to do instead (Since he can fly as well). Actually.... if Beat is down special, how about Eddy be side? Everything works out.

Final Smash: New concept made above that doesn't involve Wily, would basically be a Goku style FS combo with a ton of different OP moves.

Power Stone uncharged would just be weaker, and possibly last a shorter time.
Thunder Claw Zair I figured was obvious with any ranged grab...
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Ness_64
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:04 pm

RoyMaster4 wrote:
Eh... do we have to use Air Shooter? Why can't we make that Tornado Blow and make utilt something else? If everyone really wants Air Shooter, fine, but I was trying to design the moveset to be as different from SSF2 as possible.
This attack is not like the SSF2's Air Shooter. It's more like the original one. And actually, I'm the only one suggesting the Air Shooter, I think.
The Tornado Blow U-Throw could work like your Gravity Hold idea, since this weapon originally blows away enemies upward too.
Except he could actually throw the tornado up after lifting the target, so the attack hits similar to how I suggested the Air Shooter.

Quote :
As for Beat Call, if the opponent can't get close to him, he wins. I was trying to simulate the MM5 version of it.
I know about the MM5 thing, I actually mentioned it.
But here's a case where "if the opponent can't get close to him, he wins" isn't really right:
Mega Man was pushed out of the stage and is trying to recover. So, he calls Beat, uses him to get up and use Rush Jet from a better position.
Of course, you can always use your own MM5 Beat idea if you want. That's just a suggested extra to it.

Quote :
S-Special: I figured she would push forward and would fall as she moves, like how Piplup works when she falls off the edge. If this wouldn't work well, we can probably find something for Auto to do instead (Since he can fly as well). Actually.... if Beat is down special, how about Eddy be side? Everything works out.
Hm, I guess Roll can work then. But I can imagine a somewhat new special for this. How about Roll not being the only one called by the S-Special?
Like:
Mega Man can still call Roll. But there's a small chance (around 5%) that Auto or Eddie warps in instead. Then:
• Auto - uses his bazooka from 8 to attack foes. Very powerful attack;
• Eddie - starts running around throwing bombs and dropping a healing item before leaving.

Quote :
Final Smash: New concept made above that doesn't involve Wily, would basically be a Goku style FS combo with a ton of different OP moves.
I like that idea. You was discussing it some posts ago, wasn't you? Smile

Well, it's your moveset, so you can decide what you want to do with him. But will Mega Man really get a moveset change like this...?
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Maikeru
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:30 pm

RoyMaster4 wrote:
Final Smash: New concept made above that doesn't involve Wily, would basically be a Goku style FS combo with a ton of different OP moves.

In honesty, i prefer the first Final Smash idea you had in mind for the new moveset. Its a better final smash idea than a combo styled FS. We already have a couple of them
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Ness_64
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:44 pm

Maikeru wrote:
In honesty, i prefer the first Final Smash idea you had in mind for the new moveset. Its a better final smash idea than a combo styled FS. We already have a couple of them

I don't really dislike the Wily idea. I just think it's a bit weird.

But reconsidering what Brawl did with some FSes...
Mario Finale isn't something we really saw at other Mario games - the closest thing to it is Super Mario RPG's Ultra Flame - and yet it works VERY well as Mario's FS. Same thing for Samus's Zero Laser, Link's Triforce Slash, etc.

If the Wily FS can work well, I'll support it.
We can even understand the presented idea in general as if Wily was trying to attack Mega Man, but fails miserably by attacking the other players instead Laughing

I still like the combo FS though.
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PostSubject: Re: Megaman weapon moveset discussion    Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:47 pm

The wily Idea is really unfitting Imo
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» Additional Hand Weapon AND Shield
» Weapon "patterns"

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